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smartphone lineout to digital piano linein #2780136
11/11/18 03:29 PM
11/11/18 03:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 83
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varignet Offline OP
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varignet  Offline OP
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Hi, I'd like to merge the output of a second keyboard and smartphone audio into my mp7se linein jacks.

I purchased 2x 1/4 mono splitter cables and a 3.5mm trs to dual 1.4 mono splitter cable (see pic below, the top jacks are part of a 3m long cable ending in a 3.5mm trs connector plugged into the smartphone, the bottom jacks come from the second keyboard, a nord lead a1).

The problem is whenever I connect the cable to the smartphone the second keyboard's audio is reduced by 90% of its original volume.
Things are better when, as a test, I connect the cable to my laptop's lineout; in such case the second keyboard volume drops by roughly 25% which I find tolerable.

I expect it to have something to do with the smartphone's jack being TRRS rather than TRS. Would a TRRS to TRS adapter and the aforementioned cables configuration sort this out?
Also am I in danger of damaging either of the keyboards? I believe it should be fine, I hear no distortion and levels are within tolerance.

Thanks
Luca

P.s.
Interestingly when I only connect the left jack from the smartphone to all the way into lineIn the smartphone audio only comes out from the left channel however the second keyboard levels are good.

[img]https://vrl-eu-cdn.wetransfer.net/i...e297e2f21f6c3fa3a273c1146df5f93fa7b721b0[/img]

Highres picture

Last edited by varignet; 11/11/18 03:35 PM.
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Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: varignet] #2780146
11/11/18 03:54 PM
11/11/18 03:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,243
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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Rather than just jumpering together the outputs from multiple devices, I think you'd be better off using a mixer.

I use this: [Linked Image]


Other people prefer something like this: [Linked Image]

Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: MacMacMac] #2780213
11/11/18 08:10 PM
11/11/18 08:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,628
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Charles Cohen  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,628
Richmond, BC, Canada

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Rather than just jumpering together the outputs from multiple devices, I think you'd be better off using a mixer.


+1.

The Behringer should do nicely.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: varignet] #2780224
11/11/18 08:48 PM
11/11/18 08:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,499
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Yes, get a mixer.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
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Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: Kawai James] #2780229
11/11/18 09:07 PM
11/11/18 09:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,243
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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KJ: You're back. It's hasn't been the same without you.
Vacationing??

Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: MacMacMac] #2780235
11/11/18 09:23 PM
11/11/18 09:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,499
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Kawai James  Online Content
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Vacationing??


Not really, just taking a little break from all the love. wink

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: Kawai James] #2780371
11/12/18 10:25 AM
11/12/18 10:25 AM
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varignet Offline OP
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varignet  Offline OP
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I'll get a trrs to trs adapter first ( I would need one regardless in order to connect the smartphone to the mixer ) and a mixer soon after, as soon as I researched it a bit more, thank you.

For the time being, can you foresee a problem in merging the second keyboard and smartphone into the mp7se lineIns without using the mixer?

Last edited by varignet; 11/12/18 10:26 AM.
Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: varignet] #2780509
11/12/18 09:42 PM
11/12/18 09:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,499
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Kawai James  Online Content
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted by varignet
For the time being, can you foresee a problem in merging the second keyboard and smartphone into the mp7se lineIns without using the mixer?


Maybe a reduction in signal, as you have already experienced?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: varignet] #2780577
11/13/18 07:24 AM
11/13/18 07:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,408
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline
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Dave Horne  Offline
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I agree with everyone here who suggests buying a mixer. You'll find so many additional uses for it.
.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: varignet] #2780683
11/13/18 03:22 PM
11/13/18 03:22 PM
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varignet Offline OP
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Thanks, the thing is I'm not familiar with mixers, do you know whether some would allow for an intermediary output to go out and back into the mixer?

Here's my reasoning: I would need a mixer to merge the Nord Lead A1 and Smartphone/Ipad audios IN, and the result should go into the Kawai MP7SE's line in. The MP7se would act both as piano instrument and sketchpad recorder able to recorder multiple inputs.
Finally the Kawai's output would go back into the mixer. I would then have headphones and speakers conveniently plugged to the mixer. Does this sound feasible somehow?

What about the following one?
potential mixer

Last edited by varignet; 11/13/18 03:25 PM.
Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: varignet] #2780696
11/13/18 03:58 PM
11/13/18 03:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,814
France
Frédéric L Offline
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Frédéric L  Offline
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France
With a mixer connection which for a loop, you may have a kind of larsen. It is what I get from my audio card connected both in and out to my piano and I dial on the monitoring mixer by mistake.

Normally, the MP7SE should act as a mixer blending its sound with your mixer sound. Just plug the speakers and headphones to the MP7SE.

However, the mixer you propose has a 2 tracks send/receive set of sockets made for a recorder which could be used to insert a MP7SE without creating a loop.

I don’t know if the MP7SE will record its line-in however : it must be verified.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: Frédéric L] #2780736
11/13/18 07:15 PM
11/13/18 07:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,499
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
I don’t know if the MP7SE will record its line-in however : it must be verified.


Yes, the MPs can record the Line In audio to an MP3/WAV file.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: Frédéric L] #2800876
01/11/19 01:12 PM
01/11/19 01:12 PM
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varignet Offline OP
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varignet  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Frédéric L
With a mixer connection which for a loop, you may have a kind of larsen. It is what I get from my audio card connected both in and out to my piano and I dial on the monitoring mixer by mistake.

Normally, the MP7SE should act as a mixer blending its sound with your mixer sound. Just plug the speakers and headphones to the MP7SE.

However, the mixer you propose has a 2 tracks send/receive set of sockets made for a recorder which could be used to insert a MP7SE without creating a loop.

I don’t know if the MP7SE will record its line-in however : it must be verified.


With the new year I can finally dedicate myself to this again, sorry about the delay in replying.

I'm all for getting a mixer. I'm just confused about how to plug in the mp7se in the mixer without generating a loop. Could you kindly describe what it is I should do / what to look for in a mixer?
These are the ones I was thinking about:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-...230363&sr=8-2&keywords=xenyx+802
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Premium-Pr...230414&sr=8-3&keywords=xenyx+502

To recap I would aim to achieve:
-nord lead a1 to mixer
-mp7se to mixer
-smartphone to mixer
-mixer to speakers
-mixer to mp7se's linein for recording (how can I handle this without creating a loop?)

Many thanks!
P.s.
this configuration would also allow in the future to expand my setup by introducing a more robust multitracker or indeed an audio interface

Last edited by varignet; 01/11/19 01:13 PM.
Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: varignet] #2800884
01/11/19 01:59 PM
01/11/19 01:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,814
France
Frédéric L Offline
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Frédéric L  Offline
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France
I prevent a loop on an audio interface using the integrated mixer (DAW/input), setting it to 100% DAW, 0%. Then I have

Piano -> UR22 -> DAW

And in parallel :

DAW -> UR22 -> Piano

Since the piano « loop », I must break the loop at the DAW (just avoid setting the monitoring on).

On a simple mixer, it could be difficult to avoid the loop without setting a volume to 0. Perhaps some advanced mixers have multiple busses, then we can set a volume to 0 for the looped bus, and to a more useful value for the speakers, DAW or other things.

I don’t know if the mp7se can break the loop, be it would seem me surprising.

Perhaps you should try :

Everything except mp7se -> mixer -> mp7se -> speakers

You won’t have a loop then and can record anything on the DP.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 01/11/19 02:07 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: Frédéric L] #2801220
01/12/19 11:40 AM
01/12/19 11:40 AM
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varignet Offline OP
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varignet  Offline OP
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Thanks, everything to the mixer and mixer to the mp7se is my fallback option, in case I can't find a better solution. I would honestly prefer for all instruments and devices to go through the mixer in order to have a more flexible system: it would for instance allow to only turn on the equipment I want, for when I don't need the mp7se to be turned on and it would easily allow in the future to swap the recorder for a better multitrack recorder or indeed record to a smartphone via the usb out without re-engineer the whole setup.

I'll toy a few more days with the original idea before giving up. I gave it some thought (and apologies if I'm stating the obvious) and it can summarised this way:
I would need a mixer which allows a subset of the inputs to go out from the mixer to a recording device without causing a loop.
In other words all inputs minus the keyboard itself sent out to the keyboard for recording.

If I was to design my own mixer I would expect, next to each channel faders, for one of the knobs to control the amount sent to the second bus, or possibly a toggle button to activate deactivate the channel on the second bus.
I would then disable the mp7se channel from the second bus, leave it on the first bus, and connect the second bus out to the mp7se linein for recording.

I read the q802usb manual and found it confusing as it takes for granted terms which I'm yet not familiar with. I have the feeling the track in-out or fx-send might do what I need, however fx-send is mono which is a no-no.
I also have the feeling that I might need a more advanced mixer aka 4bus know.

Thanks again and have a nice weekend

Re: smartphone lineout to digital piano linein [Re: varignet] #2801303
01/12/19 03:19 PM
01/12/19 03:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,814
France
Frédéric L Offline
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Frédéric L  Offline
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Posts: 1,814
France
The Fx Send knobs are quite what you want : they tell the amount of signal which is sent to a second bus, Fx Send.

This is made to send signal to an Fx processing unit (reverb, EQ, other), and the result should be returned to the Aux Return. There is a Aux return knob which set how much of the signal is sent to the speakers.

The main issue is that the Fx bus is mono here.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq

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