Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Piano dealers, hows the market?

Since all businesss in Norway must report income, salary of their daily leader, and this is publicly available, I did a quick chart of turnover of the 4 piano stores in Oslo, a city with a population of around 650 000.

The numbers reported here are in million NOK. 1000000 NOK is 119 000 $. In the chart 19K should be read as 19 thousand thousand, ie 19 million.



The purple colour is for a shop that sells mainly Kawai and Schimmel, with the occasional Bösendorfer and Fazioli.
The dark blue Seles mainly Bechstein and derivatives, with the occasional Steingraeber.
The middle blue sells mainly Yamaha, some Petrof and occasional Sauter.
The last one sells Steinway, Boston and Essex.

That seems to be real question then.

Why has the demand for pianos decreased?

Because people spend their time on computers and PianoWorld instead of playing pianos.

Thanks for your questions. This is for our business Steinway Piano Reseller | Park Avenue Pianos

1. How % of your sales are digitals compared to acoustic uprights and grands?

We do not sell digital pianos. By percentage we sell 90 percent grands.

2. What % of your sales are under 15k?

Only about 5 percent of our sales are under 15k.

3. Do you have regular showroom hours or by appointment only? Why?

We work by appointment only. As this article on the changing landscape of the retail showroom points out, most buyers hear of their choice of business by word of mouth or the internet.

4. Would you open a piano store again knowing what you know now about the business?

Absolutely yes! We see it as a beautiful thriving area, where in addition to the financial rewards, there is an opportunity to constantly connect to artists.

5. How was your 2018?

Our best year yet.

6. Average margin on a used piano?

20 percent.

7. Anything else interesting to note about the business?

Things are definitely changing. Those dealers who embrace the online world and are about being flexible on a number of different fronts seem to be thriving. In addition, strong bonds and effort with the chinese community, both in the US and abroad, is well worth it.

Thanks to anyone willing to answer any of these questions. Its greatly appreciated.

Appreciate reading your reponses to the OP's questions. Any other dealers willing to respond?

Since I’m old I remember when having a piano in your living room and have one of your kids (more often than not the girl) taking piano lessons. A typical evening over at so-and-so’s included a short solo recital from family members that played. Christmas party always included playing Christmas songs. Now, I have a few friends and acquaintances that play and own pianos but we never play together. The music programs are always the first thing axed in the school budget here in the US.
Fortunately for the global piano market, learning to play piano and having the money to buy a piano has been growing like crazy in China. Maybe it’s the sign “you made it” like it was here in the 50’s and 60’s.
I’ve always wondered if the piano market is much like the guitar market. A piano dealer will probably sell 10 Cable Nelson uprights and 5 GBKs for every Bosendorfer. Music stores sell 100 ukuleles and 10 Epiphones for every PRS Custom they ring up.

There are so many false assumptions being made in this thread that it would take hours to respond.

Some of the problems:

Piano shoppers want a wide selection of pianos that are in their price range. This necessitates carrying a substantial inventory, i.e say $500,000. I wouldn't consider that a small investment, especially when you need 2000-10,000 sq. ft. to display them. If one tries to specialize in order to keep the inventory investment handleable, one sacrifices large segments of the market.

The private used market is awash with good quality instruments in great condition. Since there are MANY, MANY, more pianos out there than there are buyers prices are forced down to the point where dealers can't compete.

The breadth of knowledge one need to accurately answer shopper' question is a major hurtle.

Oh, yea. If you believe that any dealership can survive on margins under ~33% you are hallucinating!

I could go on....

for days!!!

If you are serious about getting into the business PM me. There are several dealerships quietly up for sale. They would likely be your best bet.

Why are they up for sale?

Just regular retirement?

Or getting out of the business altogether because it isn't profitable?

Wanting to be in the piano business is not a good enough reason to get into it. You have to need to be in it.

Are there market research specialists for music stores, specifically for digital and acoustic piano retailers? I wonder if there’s panel discussions at Winter NAMM or MusicMesse? I have no intention of buying a piano store, but I am really curious about how a new store owner decides how much floorspace to rent, how to best display and show new pianos vs used and trade-in policies. lm glad my livelihood and retirement don’t depend on how I interpret the local economy and the piano retail market. I’d be a starving piano store owner instead of a starving musician or artist. I’m glad a had a day. So is my family 😁

Where are all these "good quality instruments in great condition"? I didn't find any when I was looking for one, earlier this year. I did waste a lot of time driving places to look at wrecks advertised on Facebook, Craigslist, and Ebay ("plays great", "regularly maintained", "only needs tuning". One of the latter had a jammed action and wouldn't play a note.) So how do the great ones get sold? Why don't the dealers have these "great" instruments for sale instead of back rooms full of Aeolian and worse baby grands?
Show me one current advertisement for a "good quality instrument in great condition", offered by a private party at a price that undercuts the average dealer.

Try this one: 2001 Steinway M I haven't seen a Steinway, that young, any where close to that price in my searching. Of course it could have been neglected. I don't think most buyers are looking for 100 year old pianos.

I think the point being made is that the availability of reasonably new used pianos cuts into the sales of new pianos, especially in a dwindling market.

Well, the woods might not be full of them (as we say here in the south ) but they (good used acoustic pianos) are out there if you look hard enough and long enough. Also, you have to look diligently and often. Also, you have to be ready to buy when a good used piano comes up for private sale.

Also (sorry for all the also ) you have to discern whether the pre-owned piano up for sale is really a private sale or a used piano dealer/piano-flipper posing as a private seller. This happens a lot.

Ok, no more also....

The 4 acoustic pianos I have now (3 grands and an upright) are examples of very nice used instruments that I looked long and hard for and seized the opportunity when it became available. I have no intention of selling any of them any time soon. I've promised one of the grand pianos to my 15 year old granddaughter whenever my son can find room for it in his house.

They are out there... somewhere... (X-Files?)

Rick

GoodCuzStuf,
I suggest you find a piano dealer to let you try out selling pianos for them. Do it on commission only. You will learn more about selling pianos than we can tell you about on a forum, and find out what you like and dislike about doing so.

Sorry for all the posts that are really off-topic. But I had to say that "piano-flipper" is good. I know about "house-flippers"; I suppose flipping a grand wouldn't be more difficult.

If that Steinway Model M is legit I'm certain it will be sold within a matter of days.

Thank you for the honest answers, I appreciate it very much. Do you think the 5% is because you sell a higher end brand such as steinway? A Yamaha or kawai dealer I would think a different %

OP, be mindful that steinwayman18 doesn't have a traditional brick and mortar store. Rather, his is based on a different business model. I do not know enough about the piano business one way or the other to contribute further to this conversation.

GoodCuzStub, Thank you for your note. I think you may be right on the percentage issue. For us, we have a fairly lean business structure. For the last 16 months we've averaged 8 sales a month, which is already a lot of work for a small team (especially considering we need to buy an equal number of pianos). If we ramped up the volume with uprights it would be too much to handle, and not enough reward on a per piano basis.

There are market specialists for music stores. I am one of them.

Also, while many other posters to this thread are asking the wrong questions, your questions are well considered.