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Ship upright from the US to Europe? #2779713
11/10/18 06:21 AM
11/10/18 06:21 AM
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I know there have been a few threads on this already, but couldn't quite find the information I was looking for. I'm planning to buy a new upright (currently playing on a DP, not enough room for a grand). I live in Europe. I'm quite particular about uprights/verticals, particularly about the action. There's a couple of very nice second hand pianos which I've only seen for sale in the US recently, not in Europe. Simply put: Is it at all viable for me as a private person to buy a piano second hand from the US, and have it shipped to Europe? How much will this cost?

Has anybody already done this - and do you have any companies to recommend I could contact? I contacted one company, which quoted me 5000 USD without insurance, 6500 including insurance. If so, it's starting to become too expensive for me... But there must surely be more streamlined and cheaper ways of doing this? After all, the big piano companies ship pianos worldwide all the time. There's no way that Kawai pays 5000 USD for shipping a piano from Japan to the US which sells for 5000 USD. The question is if private persons can do the same.


Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
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Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779717
11/10/18 06:42 AM
11/10/18 06:42 AM
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Scotland
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Are there no Kawai dealers in Norway? (assuming its a Kawai you are interested in?
How about asking here https://www.klaviano.com/Pianoverksted.html

Ian


I'm all keyed up
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Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779722
11/10/18 06:51 AM
11/10/18 06:51 AM
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No, Kawai was just an example! (though I love the company). No need to go into details.., let's just say that I'm looking into a couple of uprights which are hard to come by outside the US.


Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779743
11/10/18 08:38 AM
11/10/18 08:38 AM
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Our friends move around the world a lot for their company, and I know it's surprisingly cheap for them to ship the things that they don't need right away in a container. Unfortunately you don't have a whole house full of stuff, you only have a piano. I'll ask them what they pay for a whole container, maybe you could find someone to share a move with.
They just flew a horse from here to Germany and it only cost $7000, and she rides in the stall with the horse, and the company provided a vet on the flight. So you'd almost be better off dressing the piano up as a horse and riding with it in the stall.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: MarkL] #2779745
11/10/18 08:43 AM
11/10/18 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkL
Our friends move around the world a lot for their company, and I know it's surprisingly cheap for them to ship the things that they don't need right away in a container. Unfortunately you don't have a whole house full of stuff, you only have a piano. I'll ask them what they pay for a whole container, maybe you could find someone to share a move with.
They just flew a horse from here to Germany and it only cost $7000, and she rides in the stall with the horse, and the company provided a vet on the flight. So you'd almost be better off dressing the piano up as a horse and riding with it in the stall.


Thanks, that's generous of you!

I'm writing down the suggestion to dress up the piano like a horse. It won't be my first choice of action, but if all else fails...


Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779778
11/10/18 11:10 AM
11/10/18 11:10 AM
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If it is a new piano don't forget the taxes and custom fees that will be slapped on. depending on country this can be >20%



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Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779791
11/10/18 12:00 PM
11/10/18 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by oivavoi
[...] There's a couple of very nice second hand pianos which I've only seen for sale in the US recently, not in Europe. Simply put: Is it at all viable for me as a private person to buy a piano second hand from the US, and have it shipped to Europe? How much will this cost?
[...]


In answer to your question particularly about buying a used piano from the US: No! Many times, No! Whatever the seller (dealer or private person) says about the condition of the piano, you have no idea how accurate or honest that statement is. Even if it could turn out to be an honest dealer making an honest assessment of a good used piano, how do know that you are going to like its tone and action enough to have spent the considerable extra money to have it imported?

The standard rule for buying a piano, used or new, is to try it, not just one of the same make and model, but the very piano you are going to buy. Each piano - even among top tier instruments - has its own characteristics, some of which will be agreeable to some and less so to others.

I know that I would not buy a new piano - even one among the top brands - without having tried it first, but this caution is even more important - critical, I would say - when buying a used piano whose condition is not proven.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779796
11/10/18 12:21 PM
11/10/18 12:21 PM
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I talked to my friend, she said the companies won't ship a piano in a regular moving container, they only use special transports that have a more controlled environment. I didn't know it but they brought a piano with them the first time they moved to the US about 20 years ago and she said it was very expensive compared to everything else, but she couldn't remember what they paid. Maybe you could talk to the store you buy the piano from to see if they could help. I imagine most pianos are being shipped from Europe/Asia to the US, but there must be some traffic going the other direction.
Or you might be making a horse costume...


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: BruceD] #2779811
11/10/18 12:57 PM
11/10/18 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by oivavoi
[...] There's a couple of very nice second hand pianos which I've only seen for sale in the US recently, not in Europe. Simply put: Is it at all viable for me as a private person to buy a piano second hand from the US, and have it shipped to Europe? How much will this cost?
[...]


In answer to your question particularly about buying a used piano from the US: No! Many times, No! Whatever the seller (dealer or private person) says about the condition of the piano, you have no idea how accurate or honest that statement is. Even if it could turn out to be an honest dealer making an honest assessment of a good used piano, how do know that you are going to like its tone and action enough to have spent the considerable extra money to have it imported?

The standard rule for buying a piano, used or new, is to try it, not just one of the same make and model, but the very piano you are going to buy. Each piano - even among top tier instruments - has its own characteristics, some of which will be agreeable to some and less so to others.

I know that I would not buy a new piano - even one among the top brands - without having tried it first, but this caution is even more important - critical, I would say - when buying a used piano whose condition is not proven.

Regards,


Thanks! Very sound advice, of course. In general I would agree with you, and I have always done it like that in the past. But I have a good friend who's a skilled piano technician, who will voice the piano to my liking after I get it. The very reason I'm thinking of importing one of these pianos is that they have a particular action, the fandrich vertical action, which is quite unique and hard to come by in Europe. So basically I'll be paying for an action with a piano attached - and hoping that my piano technician friend can fix things in case there are things that indeed need to be fixed. But yeah, it might be too risky.


Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779812
11/10/18 01:03 PM
11/10/18 01:03 PM
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If you really want one that badly, why not engage a piano tech remotely to inspect the piano, then if it is good factor in a short holiday break to play it as a condition of sale? Take the risk out unless the cost of buying and shipping it are just pocket money to you.

Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: gwing] #2779814
11/10/18 01:08 PM
11/10/18 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gwing
If you really want one that badly, why not engage a piano tech remotely to inspect the piano, then if it is good factor in a short holiday break to play it as a condition of sale? Take the risk out unless the cost of buying and shipping it are just pocket money to you.


Sounds like a plan!
(no, it's not pocket money at all... It's just that I don't have the space for a grand, and want to get an upright that feels as close to the action of a grand as possible)

Last edited by oivavoi; 11/10/18 01:16 PM.

Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: MarkL] #2779818
11/10/18 01:14 PM
11/10/18 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkL
I talked to my friend, she said the companies won't ship a piano in a regular moving container, they only use special transports that have a more controlled environment. I didn't know it but they brought a piano with them the first time they moved to the US about 20 years ago and she said it was very expensive compared to everything else, but she couldn't remember what they paid. Maybe you could talk to the store you buy the piano from to see if they could help. I imagine most pianos are being shipped from Europe/Asia to the US, but there must be some traffic going the other direction.
Or you might be making a horse costume...


Big thanks for checking! It does confirm that it will probably be expensive, though... hm.


Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779829
11/10/18 02:04 PM
11/10/18 02:04 PM
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Shipping a piano internationally is viable. I suspect if you do a little comparison shopping that you'll be able to find a much lower quote for shipping. I've shipped multiple cars to Europe over the years, and the most I ever paid for that was $1100. Online searches reveal companies that ship pianos, videos on how they are packed and crated, etc. Search for freight forwarders, not retail pak-n-ship kind of shops.

The topic of shipping pianos internationally comes up here from time to time. Usually the answers range between "you [as a mere mortal] can't do that," to dire warnings about damage to pragmatic concerns about taxes and shipping cost. Value propositions usually balance risk and reward, and fraidy cats seldom get ahead.

My personal opinion is that there are only two reasons to ship internationally: 1) to save a lot on something that costs disproportionately more locally (i.e. after shipping you come out ahead), and 2) to acquire something that is essentially not available to you locally. It sounds like a Fandrich action falls squarely into category 2.

Other out-of-the-box options:

The Fandriches are business people, and entrepreneurs. If you haven't already done so, you might want to contact them directly and see if they'll ship a Fandrich action directly to you (or your tech). If I'm not mistaken, they usually fit them into imported pianos (Pearl Rivers?). It'd be much smaller and lighter than a whole piano, and you could have it retrofitted into an appropriate piano there. Or perhaps you could buy the used piano (have it inspected by someone in the sales location, of course), and ship the used action alone.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779841
11/10/18 02:38 PM
11/10/18 02:38 PM
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These guys advertise world wide shipping to any major airport for $1950. a440pianos You might contact them and see who they use.

Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779865
11/10/18 03:46 PM
11/10/18 03:46 PM
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We brought an Yamaha upright and a Kawai grand as well as the rest of our belongings when we emigrated to Canada .We chose a very good moving company .
The pianos took a while took a to settle down.We then got a good technician to work on both pianos .Both were regulated and tuned.
Ultimately the pianos were fine .The grand was regulated again in 6 months .
That was 18 years ago .Both these instrucments were pianos I had for
years and were aging. Recently I sold these instruments after years of teaching on them .We then bought a new a Sauter 130 Upright which I just love .
.However both the U1 and the Kawai grand survived the sea trip .
I am not sure I would ever consider buying a new piano which I would want sent from overseas however !



Last edited by Lady Bird; 11/10/18 03:50 PM. Reason: Spelling
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: Lady Bird] #2779874
11/10/18 04:34 PM
11/10/18 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal

Other out-of-the-box options:

The Fandriches are business people, and entrepreneurs. If you haven't already done so, you might want to contact them directly and see if they'll ship a Fandrich action directly to you (or your tech). If I'm not mistaken, they usually fit them into imported pianos (Pearl Rivers?). It'd be much smaller and lighter than a whole piano, and you could have it retrofitted into an appropriate piano there.


This is actually an excellent idea.

Originally Posted by jarobi
These guys advertise world wide shipping to any major airport for $1950. a440pianos You might contact them and see who they use.


Thanks!

Originally Posted by Lady Bird

We then bought a new a Sauter 130 Upright which I just love .


Actually, it was playing a Sauter upright that kickstarted my interest in the Fandrich action. When I played it in the store (also a 130) I immediately remarked: "This is like playing a grand!" The dealer said that yes, it's closer to a grand, because Sauter employs a special kind of action/mechanism in some of their models, which is made to mimick the action of a grand. This made me realize that there are upright actions that are significantly better than others.

Last edited by oivavoi; 11/10/18 04:35 PM.

Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779883
11/10/18 04:50 PM
11/10/18 04:50 PM
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I fail to see why a European piano is not going to work for you. Take a trip to UK or Germany and go play some fantastic piano's.


At what point does the percentage of the piano in shipping cost become unreasonable. Figure $1500 for you to come out and play the piano. $2000 to ship it. Here you are looking at $3500 for a $15000 piano?


That doesn't make sense to me at all.


But to each his own.


Good luck with your search.



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Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779894
11/10/18 05:29 PM
11/10/18 05:29 PM
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Do you know of any piano technicians in Norway who can service a Fandrich Vertical Action? I am pretty sure Fandrich can help guide you there, but it seems worth investigating. This "regulation guide" from the Fandrich website suggests that regulating the Fandrich Vertical Action requires some special tools.

Fandrich apparently has been using pianos manufactured by Pearl River since 2008. I suspect the verticals, like the grands, are built according to Fandrich specifications and are not just assembly-line pianos.

I am curious...why didn't you buy the Sauter 130? Surely buying in Europe is going to be way less expensive than having one of Fandrich's verticals shipped to you. And, like practically everyone on the Piano World Forums will say, you really should actually play any piano you are thinking of buying.


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Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779898
11/10/18 05:36 PM
11/10/18 05:36 PM
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OK - this is something I've explored in depth, as I want to (and will) get a Baldwin or MH concert grand sent from the US to me in Europe.

Unless you can get it flown - which can work out at about the same price as sea shipping - I wouldn't advise it. In a shipping container, there are too many variables - some companies will charge less, and wrap the piano and stuff it in a container. But you need it to be climate controlled otherwise it can all go very badly. A friend of mine had a bad experience doing this - with her Steinway grand arriving in a terrible state.

Also, have you taken customs duties into consideration? I have budgeted about 8,000 Euros for tax duties alone.

I see you're buying an upright - presumably not a niche instrument that's only made in the US. In that case, in all honesty, you'd be crazy to get one from the US. I've recently spent time travelling in Germany looking for a grand and there are literally hundreds of great places there - and they'll all be able to deliver to you. Why Germany over the UK? Well, as I've said many times, I'm always dismayed at the poor choices and poor prep (and sales ethos) of piano dealers in the UK. Plus, the UK is over-priced. Germany is the place to buy from.
If you need any advice as to where in Germany to start, feel free to PM me.


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Kawai RX-7
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: precise] #2779909
11/10/18 06:14 PM
11/10/18 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by AaronSF
Do you know of any piano technicians in Norway who can service a Fandrich Vertical Action? I am pretty sure Fandrich can help guide you there, but it seems worth investigating. This "regulation guide" from the Fandrich website suggests that regulating the Fandrich Vertical Action requires some special tools.

Fandrich apparently has been using pianos manufactured by Pearl River since 2008. I suspect the verticals, like the grands, are built according to Fandrich specifications and are not just assembly-line pianos.

I am curious...why didn't you buy the Sauter 130? Surely buying in Europe is going to be way less expensive than having one of Fandrich's verticals shipped to you. And, like practically everyone on the Piano World Forums will say, you really should actually play any piano you are thinking of buying.


These are all good questions and comments I need to think through and look into. Thanks.

Why I didn't buy the Sauter - price only. If I'm not mistaken that one was around 25000 euro (might have been a little less), and that is sadly way outside my budget.

Originally Posted by precise
OK - this is something I've explored in depth, as I want to (and will) get a Baldwin or MH concert grand sent from the US to me in Europe.

Unless you can get it flown - which can work out at about the same price as sea shipping - I wouldn't advise it. In a shipping container, there are too many variables - some companies will charge less, and wrap the piano and stuff it in a container. But you need it to be climate controlled otherwise it can all go very badly. A friend of mine had a bad experience doing this - with her Steinway grand arriving in a terrible state.

Also, have you taken customs duties into consideration? I have budgeted about 8,000 Euros for tax duties alone.

I see you're buying an upright - presumably not a niche instrument that's only made in the US. In that case, in all honesty, you'd be crazy to get one from the US. I've recently spent time travelling in Germany looking for a grand and there are literally hundreds of great places there - and they'll all be able to deliver to you. Why Germany over the UK? Well, as I've said many times, I'm always dismayed at the poor choices and poor prep (and sales ethos) of piano dealers in the UK. Plus, the UK is over-priced. Germany is the place to buy from.
If you need any advice as to where in Germany to start, feel free to PM me.



Thanks! Excellent input. An extra excuse to travel through Germany once again is nice. I'll send you a PM!


Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779919
11/10/18 06:46 PM
11/10/18 06:46 PM
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The Sauter 130 piano has a wonderful singing tone .I must say it has big sound and tonal possibilities like a small grand .As you say it has the double repetition mechanism which gives similar action responses to a grand piano .I say similar to a grand but not exactly the same .Rapid note repetition is better than many other uprights I have played however .There is an overall balance in response in these pianos which makes the piano a delight to play .
The price however caused us a a few hesitations .However like anything that is more expensive there are more responsibilities and we have recently had to buy a dehumidifier for the piano to keep the piano sounding good .

Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: Retsacnal] #2779922
11/10/18 07:05 PM
11/10/18 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal

The Fandriches are business people, and entrepreneurs. If you haven't already done so, you might want to contact them directly and see if they'll ship a Fandrich action directly to you (or your tech).

Now that's a good idea.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2779924
11/10/18 07:23 PM
11/10/18 07:23 PM
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The grass is always green (on the other side of the ocean). Americans have an illusion that German pianos (and cars) are better. Europeans seem to want American things. Buy local and invest all the extra shipping and duty cost into a better instrument.

Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oldMH] #2779946
11/10/18 09:25 PM
11/10/18 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by oldMH
Americans have an illusion that German pianos (and cars) are better. Europeans seem to want American things. Buy local and invest all the extra shipping and duty cost into a better instrument.

I love my German car. Btw, it was built in America. The world is too complex to fit these clumsy stereotypes. Why should the OP pay extra for something he doesn't even want? I applaud his courage to ignore artificial boundaries and seek out what he does want!


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Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: Retsacnal] #2779965
11/11/18 01:17 AM
11/11/18 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
[...] The world is too complex to fit these clumsy stereotypes. Why should the OP pay extra for something he doesn't even want? I applaud his courage to ignore artificial boundaries and seek out what he does want!


But how do you know he wants one (an American piano)? Unless there's yet something to tell, he hasn't even played the (American) piano with the Fandrich action he thinks he wants.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: BruceD] #2780012
11/11/18 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
[...] The world is too complex to fit these clumsy stereotypes. Why should the OP pay extra for something he doesn't even want? I applaud his courage to ignore artificial boundaries and seek out what he does want!


But how do you know he wants one (an American piano)? Unless there's yet something to tell, he hasn't even played the (American) piano with the Fandrich action he thinks he wants.

Regards,


Ok, some background: I've played the piano daily since I was six. I'm now 38. I'm not a professional, but playing the piano and making music (jazz and pop) are essential ingredients in my life. I've played on a fair amount of very good uprights and grands, including grands and uprights that cost many times what I make a year. There is huge variation, of course. But my clear take-away from my piano experiences is that I generally enjoy playing a grand much more than I enjoy playing an upright. This usually applies even when the upright is sonically superior to the grand, which is often the case when a good and large upright competes against a baby grand of average quality.

For my type of playing - which is geared towards improvisation, expressiveness and experimentation, more than towards classical perfection - I have found that the feel and response of the action is of supreme importance. I want the piano to respond immediately to even the minutest changes in input and touch. In this regard, most uprights are at a disadvantage compared to most grands, simply because of the law of gravity. If I had the space, I would immediately get a grand, even a baby grand of average quality. But we don't have the space. There's just no way we can fit a grand in our cramped living room. So what to do?

Because we recently moved out of the old apartment block we've lived in for the last years, I can finally exchange my digital hybrid for a proper acoustic. I've spent the last months playing different kinds of uprights. Yes, some uprights have an action that is much better than others. But most of them still can't compete with a grand for me, action-wise. The only upright I've played which "did it" for me - which I think is an instrument I could live happily with for 30 years - was the aforementioned Sauter. This was not due to the unique sonic signature of that piano, but rather the responsiveness of the action. But alas, that Sauter is way too expensive for me. After some searches, I found out that the upright action which almost universally gets praised more than any other is the Fandrich vertical action. Every single review I've read states that this action is more responsive than other upright actions (haven't read any comparisons with the Sauter action though).

This gives me quite a lot of confidence that an upright with a Fandrich action will satisfy me. Can I be sure? No. But given my experience with the uprights and grands I've already played, and the rather unanimous views of people who have played on a Fandrich, I feel reasonably confident in my assesment. The question then becomes how I can get something I will be able to afford.

That said, there are obviously valid reasons for being wary of buying and shipping a piano privately from overseas. The idea of getting only the action, and getting it installed on another piano locally, seems like a very good idea. If it's possible, that is - will check with the Fandrich people.

Hope that clarified my approach to this! smile

Last edited by oivavoi; 11/11/18 07:52 AM.

Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2780097
11/11/18 12:28 PM
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I think you underestimate the difficulty of marrying a Fandrich, or any other replacement action, to a piano that will have been designed to use a different design of action. e.g. my Bl├╝thner Renner action was made specifically for my model. The action brackets, hammer shaft length and angle of the Darrel Fandrich action would have to match the structure of the piano. Of course if Darrel has already a design for a European piano that you might you choose then the marrying process is made simpler. However from the reports I have read setting up a Fandrich action is not simple, probably because the double repetition springs require note by note selection or/and spring tension change.

Most of the classical composers as well as modern ones have owned or been loaned upright pianos. These included Julius Bl├╝thner, Carl Bechstein and Heinrich Engelhard Steinweg (Steinway) uprights none of which had double repetition.

I do not understand your statement "most uprights are at a disadvantage compared to most grands, simply because of the law of gravity" The hammer return speed of a well regulated upright is faster than that of a grand action.

Ian


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Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: Beemer] #2780109
11/11/18 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Beemer
I think you underestimate the difficulty of marrying a Fandrich, or any other replacement action, to a piano that will have been designed to use a different design of action. e.g. my Bl├╝thner Renner action was made specifically for my model. The action brackets, hammer shaft length and angle of the Darrel Fandrich action would have to match the structure of the piano. Of course if Darrel has already a design for a European piano that you might you choose then the marrying process is made simpler. However from the reports I have read setting up a Fandrich action is not simple, probably because the double repetition springs require note by note selection or/and spring tension change.

Most of the classical composers as well as modern ones have owned or been loaned upright pianos. These included Julius Bl├╝thner, Carl Bechstein and Heinrich Engelhard Steinweg (Steinway) uprights none of which had double repetition.

I do not understand your statement "most uprights are at a disadvantage compared to most grands, simply because of the law of gravity" The hammer return speed of a well regulated upright is faster than that of a grand action.

Ian


Good points. I'll certainly not attempt to install a Fandrich action to another piano without being absolutely sure that it will work!

Concerning the action on uprights vs grands: ok, let me rephrase it a bit in subjective and not absolute terms. The action of uprights and grands function in different ways. I have always found that personally I prefer the action of grands - as a general rule, kind of. There might be all kind of expectation bias that goes into that. But still, that's how it is for me. Having said that, great music can be played and created on uprights, of course. I grew up playing on an old Steinway upright, and still think of that instrument with fondness.

Last edited by oivavoi; 11/11/18 01:08 PM.

Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2780678
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Update on my piano buying journey. Yesterday I had the chance to try out the Steingraeber 130 upright, with their proprietary magnet-based SFM action. OH. MY. GOODNESS. This is by far the best upright I've ever tried. Nothing else comes close. I would also rank this upright over most of the grands I've tried to date. Just mindblowing.

Way way way out of my financial league, unfortunately... But: It confirms my hunch that untraditional upright actions that imitate the action of a grand is what I want. I've yet to try out Seiler's upright action, which also attempts to do this... But I'm not discouraged from trying to search out such a grand-imitating upright that I can actually afford.


Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Ship upright from the US to Europe? [Re: oivavoi] #2780715
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I saw an interesting video a while back about a Japanese tech who 'improves' the action of uprights to be closer to that of a grand piano by the addition of springs - one to give faster repeats (pushing the jack? - never sure of terminology - back quickly) and the other to get the hammer away quickly from the string to give a cleaner strike. The video is a bit long (compared to the interesting bit, that is). I wonder if this would give the desired improvements - a lot of springs (well, bits of wire.....), if it's been done before etc.


regards
Pete
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