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Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2779424
11/09/18 12:41 AM
11/09/18 12:41 AM
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Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Originally Posted by Markuska
Because that just came to my head and I did not wanted to make a new thread:
Is it basically possible to ADD speakers to DPs (in addition to the built in ones) or do you REPLACE them as a whole?

Btw atm I will wait until around Christmas to finally decide - will tell my decision and reasons here then ofc.


I've never heard of anyone replacing the loudspeakers. You'd probably want to replace the amplifiers as well -- unless you're really good with electronic design and repair, I wouldn't advise that.

You can _add_ a pair of "powered monitor speakers" (with built-in amplifiers), and run two cables from the "Line Out" jacks of the DP to the loudspeakers. It's easy, that way. Many of us (including me) have done it.

The HP605 has 37 watts per channel (left and right channels), and 12cm woofers. So, for better sound, you would want more power, and larger woofers.

There are many makers, and no single "best choice". Common suggestions here are the JBL LSR305 or LSR308, or the Yamaha HS5 / HS7 / HS8. The LSR308 has been replaced by the JBL "Professional 308P MKII 8". With over 100 watts per speaker, and 8" woofers, that should give you some righteous sound.

There may be other brands and models available in Europe. Thomann probably has everything.

Have fun!


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
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Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2779425
11/09/18 01:09 AM
11/09/18 01:09 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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Cabinet and Console DPs are usually designed to be self sufficient sound wise (HP605's 37 Watts per channel is very decent for a small living room). Having said that, most will have line outs and will give you the option to toggle the internal speakers OFF/ON while external speakers are attached. I highly recommend that you consult the user manual of whichever DP you are considering to find out more about how (or if) it implements this functionality.

If you are going the path of using external speakers, I recommend that you check out stage pianos without internal speakers at all such as the RD2000.



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Angelos58] #2779555
11/09/18 02:47 PM
11/09/18 02:47 PM
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Germany
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Markuska Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dmd
I just ordered …. and returned …. he Yamaha P-515 and put another E8 (I had one previously) on order.

I liked everything about the Yamaha P-515 except the sound. There was a metallic sound at the end of tones that I could not abide.

I know the ES8 and it is just too good to give up.



And the price! I really fell in love with that one!

Originally Posted by Snail
What i would do with 2000€ budget: yamaha ydp163 1000€, 1 year of piano lessons 1000€.

Thats actually something I have thought of myself - everything that remains from my budget goes into lessons.

Originally Posted by Angelos58
Roland HP 605. I've got it!

I have a feeling that that one will be the strongest competitor. I played the FP90 and loved the action and the connection between me and the DP. But I have a (highly subjective) feeling that Rolands technology kinda NEEDS powerfull speakers, but that is just a feeling, but maybe I can test it tomorrow.

Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2780020
11/11/18 09:04 AM
11/11/18 09:04 AM
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Germany
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Markuska Offline OP
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Next Update: Had the third time of testing now.

Roland: Unfortunately when listening for the second time, I did not like the Roland sound, neither on the FP90, nor the HP605. Expected to like them more.

Yamaha: I tried the P-515 and again, did not like the sound that much, but I think that was due to the speakers maybe? What I think was funny is, that I tried the 645 again and was not that happy with it. Just for fun, I tried the 635 again and liked it much more. Talk about the need to try instead of reading specs.

Kawai: Tbh at the beginning, due to the amount of issues I read on PW I was against Kawai, but that cant be said anymore. I tested CN17/27/37 CA67//48 ES8 and I liked ALL of them (well the CA98 I tested was the best, but I am not that wealthy^^). Especially the CA48 and CN37 were really nice. I will be able to test an CA58 next time, this is in the top price range, but if its perfect - why not? I also really liked the CA67 which many people placed high above the 48, but its around €2500 and I did not have the feeling like "WOW, I NEED that". Again, this clearly shows how subjective this issue is.

So (with the possibility of maybe the LX705 if it arrives on time), its more or less narrowed down to:
CLP635
CN37
CA48
CA58 ( I think I should be able to negotiate that to around €1900?)
ES8

Maybe I will even get "only" the CN17/27 if I am happy enough and will invest the money in some lessons.
Cant wait, I want to have it before christmas.

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Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2780029
11/11/18 09:48 AM
11/11/18 09:48 AM
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Nordomus Offline
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Originally Posted by Markuska


Roland: Unfortunately when listening for the second time, I did not like the Roland sound, neither on the FP90, nor the HP605. Expected to like them more.

So (with the possibility of maybe the LX705 if it arrives on time), its more or less narrowed down to:


Try to play with settings a bit on HP 605, also it would be probably best to wait for LX 705, newest technology 90% of times is always better.
And if you order it earlier you should get it on time. My local shop already let me know there is LX 708 wating in warehouse.

Last edited by Nordomus; 11/11/18 09:50 AM.
Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Nordomus] #2780134
11/11/18 04:21 PM
11/11/18 04:21 PM
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Germany
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Markuska Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
Originally Posted by Markuska


Roland: Unfortunately when listening for the second time, I did not like the Roland sound, neither on the FP90, nor the HP605. Expected to like them more.

So (with the possibility of maybe the LX705 if it arrives on time), its more or less narrowed down to:


Try to play with settings a bit on HP 605, also it would be probably best to wait for LX 705, newest technology 90% of times is always better.
And if you order it earlier you should get it on time. My local shop already let me know there is LX 708 wating in warehouse.



Any recommendations? It just sounded a bit dull/weak.

Theres a CA67 floor modell here, which they sell for 2500. But since Ive seen a Bstock CA67 for €1999 somewhere online, maybe I could make such a deal? Does €2000 for a CA67 sound nice. Allthough this would be the top of the budget...

Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2782021
11/17/18 08:37 PM
11/17/18 08:37 PM
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Germany
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Markuska Offline OP
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Question: does anyone have thoughts on the Dexibell Home series?

Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2782026
11/17/18 09:22 PM
11/17/18 09:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,308
Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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I just played on the Roland HP-601 today while I am waiting on my ES8 purchase.

I really liked it.

I played the HP-603 also … and did not like it.

I would strongly suggest the 601.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: dmd] #2782048
11/17/18 10:57 PM
11/17/18 10:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 347
Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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Originally Posted by dmd
I just played on the Roland HP-601 today while I am waiting on my ES8 purchase.

I really liked it.

I played the HP-603 also … and did not like it.

I would strongly suggest the 601.



Weird because they both have the same keybed. I would pick the 603A out of the two. Reason it has 1/4 inch outputs for external speakers. What didn't you like about the Hp603 compared to the PH601?
I'm just curious smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2782061
11/18/18 12:26 AM
11/18/18 12:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 311
Ontario, Canada
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halherta Offline
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Originally Posted by Markuska
Question: does anyone have thoughts on the Dexibell Home series?


You really have got to try them out yourself. Unfortunately not many shops carry them and even less have demo units.

Basically Dexibell's sampling tech is one of the best out there. The quality of Dexibells piano samples are as good as the Nord piano samples if not better. The action is also very similar to that of the Nord piano. The Nord Piano 4 uses Fatar's TP-40M whereas the Dexibell S7 uses TP-40H. Both weighted actions but not graded. They are light however which is important in a stage piano. The Dexibell's P7 (portable piano for home use) uses Fatar's slightly less impressive TP100 action.

So Basically if you're looking for a Nord Piano like Keyboard without having to pay through the nose for a Nord, have a look at Dexibell....specifically the S7.

I personally prefer a graded weighted action and as such the Dexibell is a no go for me, unless I consider their highest end keyboards the VIVO S9 ($3999) or the home piano VIVO H7 $4199. But both cost more than I'd like to spend on a digital piano.



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: halherta] #2782070
11/18/18 01:54 AM
11/18/18 01:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 225
Mountain Brook, AL, USA
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jeffscot Offline
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Originally Posted by halherta
The Nord Piano 4 uses Fatar's TP-40M whereas the Dexibell S7 uses TP-40H

From what i’ve seen, the nord piano4 uses the heavy, and the dexibell s7 uses the medium...

...but he did specify dexibell ‘home series’, which is the H models.


.... Jeff ▫️ Yamaha P515 ▫️ Roll Tide
Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: halherta] #2782117
11/18/18 06:54 AM
11/18/18 06:54 AM
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Posts: 228
Germany
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Markuska Offline OP
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Germany
Originally Posted by halherta
Originally Posted by Markuska
Question: does anyone have thoughts on the Dexibell Home series?


You really have got to try them out yourself. Unfortunately not many shops carry them and even less have demo units.

Basically Dexibell's sampling tech is one of the best out there. The quality of Dexibells piano samples are as good as the Nord piano samples if not better. The action is also very similar to that of the Nord piano. The Nord Piano 4 uses Fatar's TP-40M whereas the Dexibell S7 uses TP-40H. Both weighted actions but not graded. They are light however which is important in a stage piano. The Dexibell's P7 (portable piano for home use) uses Fatar's slightly less impressive TP100 action.

So Basically if you're looking for a Nord Piano like Keyboard without having to pay through the nose for a Nord, have a look at Dexibell....specifically the S7.

I personally prefer a graded weighted action and as such the Dexibell is a no go for me, unless I consider their highest end keyboards the VIVO S9 ($3999) or the home piano VIVO H7 $4199. But both cost more than I'd like to spend on a digital piano.


Yeah, I also found out that they are quite hard to find - I asked the company now where to play them. As you said, it was the samples that catched me, have to see if I like the action, but actually this could be just hypotetically, since graded keyboards are also important to me, and even if the H7 is "only" 2600€ here, thats over my budget.

Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2782125
11/18/18 07:30 AM
11/18/18 07:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
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Finland
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clothearednincompo Offline
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There's always the option to buy Dexibell's piano module and hook it up to the master controller of your choice. Which is a completely other can of worms...or a great opportunity.

Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: EPW] #2782138
11/18/18 09:27 AM
11/18/18 09:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,308
Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by EPW
Originally Posted by dmd
I just played on the Roland HP-601 today while I am waiting on my ES8 purchase.

I really liked it.

I played the HP-603 also … and did not like it.

I would strongly suggest the 601.



Weird because they both have the same keybed. I would pick the 603A out of the two. Reason it has 1/4 inch outputs for external speakers. What didn't you like about the Hp603 compared to the PH601?
I'm just curious smile


The keys on the 603 were made of a different material than on the 601. They were slippery and shiny while the 601 keys were dull and made with different material.

Also, you mentioned speakers. I played with headphones so speakers were not considered.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2785674
11/28/18 03:15 PM
11/28/18 03:15 PM
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Germany
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Markuska Offline OP
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To those of you who are in the DP-market for quite a while: There seems to be this NAMM-fair in January?
Is this somewhere where BIG stuff is announced and likely announced there for the first time - in other words: if I am not totally dying of waiting (which i may) should I wait for this fair?

Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2785859
11/29/18 03:21 AM
11/29/18 03:21 AM
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UK
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spanishbuddha Offline
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Originally Posted by Markuska
To those of you who are in the DP-market for quite a while: There seems to be this NAMM-fair in January?
Is this somewhere where BIG stuff is announced and likely announced there for the first time - in other words: if I am not totally dying of waiting (which i may) should I wait for this fair?

NAMM in January in the US is just one of the worldwide music fairs that occur throughout the year. Many manufacturers will reveal something new at these fairs, so this includes NAMM. With just a few weeks to wait it is probably worth holding out, but at other times probably not unless you have specific data to ask your decision on. Something announced new in NAMM or other fairs may not reach the shops until several months later, and you may not like ‘it’ anyway.

Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2785929
11/29/18 09:40 AM
11/29/18 09:40 AM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
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Exactly! (If that were not so ... then maybe it would make sense to wait for NAMM 2020. Or NAMM 2050!
My take is don't wait. If you need a piano, find one and buy it.

Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2785962
11/29/18 11:02 AM
11/29/18 11:02 AM
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Markuska Offline OP
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Thanks to both of you - I think I will just keep on trying in the stores and if somethings TAKES me, I am just going to buy it (wherever I get a reasonable price) smile

Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2787731
12/04/18 01:30 PM
12/04/18 01:30 PM
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Markuska Offline OP
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Hm, now we have the salad as we say in german ("now we have a problem" for those unfamiliar with our highly absurd language).

I actually found a piano I loved and more, that was the Casio GP300, I even liked the "low" modell and was aiming for the 400 for the additional features, but at €2000 its just impossible for the dealer he said. I will still try to compare 300 and 400 in live action to be sure, that I would have wanted the 400 more, but I am quite sure (at least for the feature to STORE settings). I have also found that the ES8 would be "sufficient" for me, while sufficient is a bad word here, Kawai really did an outstanding job here for a piano at the price point.

BUT, I think I could not live with spending a lot money (for me) and then going for the one I liked most (even more than other high end DPs). So atm I am torn, and driven in the direction of getting something which will allow me to practice efficent (since I dont even have a hammer action at my current keyboard) and a VST with a quick setup speed (less then 10 seconds, I hate to wait). Then I could go the "MacMacMac-Route" (neologisms rule) of waiting till I move to somewhere I will definately stay for years and save money (maybe for an accoustic grand finance or a high end hybrid).

The money I save right now could then go into lessons. So this is where I stand atm^^

Re: Buying advice (max. €2000) [Re: Markuska] #2787804
12/04/18 04:43 PM
12/04/18 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Markuska
Hm, now we have the salad as we say in german ("now we have a problem" for those unfamiliar with our highly absurd language).

I actually found a piano I loved and more, that was the Casio GP300, I even liked the "low" modell and was aiming for the 400 for the additional features, but at €2000 its just impossible for the dealer he said. I will still try to compare 300 and 400 in live action to be sure, that I would have wanted the 400 more, but I am quite sure (at least for the feature to STORE settings). I have also found that the ES8 would be "sufficient" for me, while sufficient is a bad word here, Kawai really did an outstanding job here for a piano at the price point.

BUT, I think I could not live with spending a lot money (for me) and then going for the one I liked most (even more than other high end DPs). So atm I am torn, and driven in the direction of getting something which will allow me to practice efficent (since I dont even have a hammer action at my current keyboard) and a VST with a quick setup speed (less then 10 seconds, I hate to wait). Then I could go the "MacMacMac-Route" (neologisms rule) of waiting till I move to somewhere I will definately stay for years and save money (maybe for an accoustic grand finance or a high end hybrid).

The money I save right now could then go into lessons. So this is where I stand atm^^


Invest money in a laptop, they are cheap these days, dedicate this laptop only for music, so the boot up will be short. If manufacturers deliver a good controller like a kawai vpc1, but cheaper, I hope they will do it this January at NAMM.

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