Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Mr. PianoWorld - the full interview
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
88 registered members (brooster, anotherscott, Bagong, bsntn99, Bruce In Philly, 22 invisible), 1,558 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: philipraposo1982] #2779051
11/07/18 04:51 PM
11/07/18 04:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,913
Midwest USA
Stubbie Offline
Gold Subscriber
Stubbie  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,913
Midwest USA
Originally Posted by philipraposo1982
I rarely post here and this is kind of why.

I know what I am about to say is going to trigger a bunch of you but here it goes.

Many time people on here sound very elitist. Who cares how he progressed, why he plays, if he learned theory, can he read sheet music, did he watch demos, ect..

I feel many new piano players will steer clear from this forum for this reason. Feeling like they will be critised to no end because of how they play.

I for one go by the rule that if we can't offer something constructive to say and offer feedback in a positive way then we shouldn't say anything at all.
Certainly there is no call for plain old meanness, and I think here on the ABF when it does occur, it's an outlier.

As for who cares how he progressed, well, a lot of people. It's an interesting topic for discussion. Some will find tips and/or inspiration for their own studies.

Over the years I've been on this forum, I've never had the impression it's elitist in the least. Many of the people who post here on a regular basis are passionate about music (piano, specifically) and invest a fair amount of their time and energy to the pursuit of it. It's not elitist to form your own opinions and discuss what you've learned from your own experiences.


[Linked Image]
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: philipraposo1982] #2779052
11/07/18 04:56 PM
11/07/18 04:56 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,505
Florida
cmb13 Online content
Silver Level
cmb13  Online Content
Silver Level

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,505
Florida
Originally Posted by philipraposo1982
I rarely post here and this is kind of why.

I know what I am about to say is going to trigger a bunch of you but here it goes.

Many time people on here sound very elitist. Who cares how he progressed, why he plays, if he learned theory, can he read sheet music, did he watch demos, ect..

I feel many new piano players will steer clear from this forum for this reason. Feeling like they will be critised to no end because of how they play.

I for one go by the rule that if we can't offer something constructive to say and offer feedback in a positive way then we shouldn't say anything at all.


My opinion of the forum differs. I come here for support, guidance, education, companionship (my friends and family have no interest whatsoever in this hobby), and try to offer the same when possible. It has met my expectations, and I generally don’t get involved in the tiresome debates about teacher / no teacher, etc. I hope you can get out of it what I have, which has been a tremendous amount.

My opinion on this person is who knows? With a lot of hard work, motivation, and time I’m sure one can progress very rapidly. I cannot but I’m perfectly pleased with my progress nonetheless. I’m doing better than some, not as well as others, and really don’t care. I’m noncompetitive, just doing the best I can personally.


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Chopin Nocturne 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
Pachelbel Canon in D
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: cmb13] #2779056
11/07/18 05:02 PM
11/07/18 05:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
500 Post Club Member
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Originally Posted by cmb13
I’m doing better than some, not as well as others, and really don’t care. I’m noncompetitive, just doing the best I can personally.

thumb thumb


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779073
11/07/18 06:18 PM
11/07/18 06:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 386
Z
Zaphod Offline
Full Member
Zaphod  Offline
Full Member
Z

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 386
"It's not about comparing yourself to what someone else is today, rather, it's about comparing yourself to what you were yesterday".

Can't remember where that's from, but you get the point.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779089
11/07/18 07:08 PM
11/07/18 07:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 71
M
Michael P Walsh Offline
Full Member
Michael P Walsh  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 71
This guy covers it later on in the video, comparisons are futile.
His videos tend to be quite lengthy. I didn't care for his 'zen like' approach but now I'm seriously having second thoughts. I tend to make many many mistakes in playing, ridiculously frequent. He wanted me to stop thinking about playing. I didn't know how to do that, seemed impossible. Then I suddenly found myself listening to the actual sound rather than the physical activity of moving fingers. Mistakes suddenly became much less frequent. Maybe he's on to something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2enAp8px6tg

Last edited by Michael P Walsh; 11/07/18 07:09 PM.
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Zaphod] #2779117
11/07/18 08:32 PM
11/07/18 08:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 963
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
500 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 963
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by Zaphod
"It's not about comparing yourself to what someone else is today, rather, it's about comparing yourself to what you were yesterday".

Can't remember where that's from, but you get the point.


+1 thumb

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779158
11/08/18 12:51 AM
11/08/18 12:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 342
Toronto, Canada
T
thepianoplayer416 Offline
Full Member
thepianoplayer416  Offline
Full Member
T

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 342
Toronto, Canada
Everybody has a different reason why they would pick up music and play an instrument such as reducing stress, keeping the mind healthy, etc. If we would compare ourselves to other people who are supposedly more talented than we are, then more than half the people including myself wouldn't get into playing piano in the first place. Many people who took lessons before no longer play and the piano is just sitting at home like a piece of furniture.

If somebody came up with a faster way to master advanced pieces whether by reading music, playing by ear, etc. we are all curious to find out and learn some new tricks.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: thepianoplayer416] #2779159
11/08/18 12:57 AM
11/08/18 12:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 876
Pacific Northwest
P
PianogrlNW Online content
500 Post Club Member
PianogrlNW  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 876
Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416

If somebody came up with a faster way to master advanced pieces whether by reading music, playing by ear, etc. we are all curious to find out and learn some new tricks.

But here's the thing. There aren't any tricks. Just a lot of hard work.



Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779213
11/08/18 07:45 AM
11/08/18 07:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 44
India
M
ManishP Offline
Full Member
ManishP  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 44
India
That is why I never see such videos - progress of beginners! I feel I will get depressed 😀. Most will be so much better than me. And now I clicked on the link and it opened in the YouTube app. And now app will keep suggesting beginner's videos🙁.

On a serious note, this forum has been a huge help for me. My playing has become a bit better and easier because of suggestions here.


Wish I had started earlier!
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779231
11/08/18 09:07 AM
11/08/18 09:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 154
Belgium
SideShow Offline
Full Member
SideShow  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 154
Belgium
Do you really believe this guy started at age 15 with no musical knowledge whatsoever and is playing Fantaisie-Impromptu when he is 16? (I'm just guessing his age). Come on...


"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779233
11/08/18 09:23 AM
11/08/18 09:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,538
Orange County, California
bSharp(C)yclist Offline
1000 Post Club Member
bSharp(C)yclist  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,538
Orange County, California
If you read more info on his YouTube channel you'll see he was accepted into a university to study music. He says he had to audition, so I guess somebody liked what he did. I don't know if that really means anything though.

Instead of speculating here what it is he does and does not know, just ask him.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfKUKLeXWjWR5IKVNwxQ_7A/discussion


♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
YouTube | SoundCloud
[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779242
11/08/18 10:17 AM
11/08/18 10:17 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,042
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,042
New York City
If he practices 3 hours/day then he's really had more like three years of typical practicing time in one year. This would make his playing good but not quite as impressive. He plays advanced pieces but with some flaws so that's also part of the total picture. His progress is very good and certainly faster than the average amateur. But compared to many pianists who end up studying at good conservatories the graph of his learning is not that great.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/08/18 10:25 AM.
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2779246
11/08/18 10:26 AM
11/08/18 10:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
500 Post Club Member
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
If you read more info on his YouTube channel you'll see he was accepted into a university to study music. He says he had to audition, so I guess somebody liked what he did. I don't know if that really means anything though.

I was reading about another piano major at the conservatory who had to audition but he didn't know how to sight read. So he crammed for 10 x 4hrs/day before the audition on sight reading and despite naysayers, managed to pass the sight-reading portion. He's a piano performance major now and prefers to sight-read even harder works now. A little odd, but both these examples show that sometimes "cramming" can work. I consider learning to play piano, practicing 750 hours in one year, and passing a conservatory audition with your new skills to be "cramming" too.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
If he practices 3 hours/day then he's really had more like three years of typical practicing time in one year. This would make his playing good but not quite as impressive. He plays advanced pieces but with some fairly serious flaws so that's also part of the total picture. His progress is very good and certainly faster than the average amateur. But compared to many pianists who end up studying at good conservatories the graph of his learning is not that great.

Yes, he has said he played a total of 750 hours. The issue now that he has achieved admission to school, his professors at the conservatory will be much less impressed with him as a wunderkind. He will have to compete and catchup with students who have played piano for 13 years and not 1 (or 3, depending on how you count). Some of those who played 13 years also didn't practice only 1 hour per day either! It remains to be seen how he will adapt to this new environment.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779290
11/08/18 01:32 PM
11/08/18 01:32 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,726
Florida
dogperson Offline
Silver Subscriber
dogperson  Offline
Silver Subscriber

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,726
Florida

For any conservatory student, it always remains to be seen how they will do... whether they have been playing for 12 yrs of two. FWIW, there is a forum member on another site that had been playing about three years, was accepted to conservatory and has done very well.

We should just congratulate this young man on how hard he has worked and wish him well.
I’m sure he is well aware of the competition and is willing to face it.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779301
11/08/18 01:55 PM
11/08/18 01:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 445
M
Moo :) Offline
Full Member
Moo :)  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 445
I have seen now many examples of people who superficially quite advanced but it appears they have practiced very intensely to play very few pieces. To a skilled pianist do not appear great. I’m not so sure they always become great.

The person who works very hard at novice pieces and slowly works through many more pieces often does not get the attention but I would argue often becomes the better musician over the longer term. I personally have noticed things like tone and control of piano is what is quite hard to achieve. I think this comes with experience at the piano.

As I said in this case the Chopin nocturne I have tried and the technical skills seem ahead of the musical ness so it sounds like a relative amateur who has worked very hard to me rather than a lie.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779308
11/08/18 02:34 PM
11/08/18 02:34 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,042
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,042
New York City
It's obvious from his playing he would never be accepted to a high level conservatory. Without knowing what school accepted him his "getting into a conservatory" doesn't have much meaning IMO.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: pianoloverus] #2779320
11/08/18 03:23 PM
11/08/18 03:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
500 Post Club Member
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
It's obvious from his playing he would never be accepted to a high level conservatory. Without knowing what school accepted him his "getting into a conservatory" doesn't have much meaning IMO.

Well it does say "something" to me. I doubt there are any conservatories, no matter what tier, that often enroll students with only one year of experience. He did say in his Q&A he had some prior flute experience, but that probably can't be counted except from the perspective of being able to read notes on one staff before he started this 12 month self-improvement program. As bSharp(C)yclist said above, someone liked what he did. No doubt the examiner probably knew better than us all the flaws in his audition performance, probably better than most of us, but they probably saw he had energy, enthusiasm, and potential.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779341
11/08/18 04:28 PM
11/08/18 04:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 73
Texas
J
jandz Offline
Full Member
jandz  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 73
Texas
I'm with dogperson. We should congratulate this person on his hard work and wish him the best. Wouldn't it be nice to see an older (relatively speaking - he looks young adult-ish to me) beginner succeed at a high level musically? I thought his op. 66 was fantastic and, if I'm being honest, quite humbling. I've been playing for 3 years and there is no way I could equal his tempo or smoothness if I practiced only that piece for 6 months!

He's special, and that's a good thing. I'm not sure why it merits a thread this long to discuss him. Yet. Let's see him graduate to the concert stage in 5 years and then we can come back to this and be amazed anew. Whatever else he might do, he's managed to pull a lot of interest to himself and that's very important for musical career progression.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779346
11/08/18 05:01 PM
11/08/18 05:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 71
M
Michael P Walsh Offline
Full Member
Michael P Walsh  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 71
Some people set a very high bar on this forum. One year, let's not forget that. Most piano teachers I've come across think you are doing well if you advance two grades (ABRSM) per year. They think 3 grades per year is doing extremely well.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2779353
11/08/18 05:16 PM
11/08/18 05:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,538
Orange County, California
bSharp(C)yclist Offline
1000 Post Club Member
bSharp(C)yclist  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,538
Orange County, California
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
It's obvious from his playing he would never be accepted to a high level conservatory. Without knowing what school accepted him his "getting into a conservatory" doesn't have much meaning IMO.

Well it does say "something" to me. I doubt there are any conservatories, no matter what tier, that often enroll students with only one year of experience. He did say in his Q&A he had some prior flute experience, but that probably can't be counted except from the perspective of being able to read notes on one staff before he started this 12 month self-improvement program. As bSharp(C)yclist said above, someone liked what he did. No doubt the examiner probably knew better than us all the flaws in his audition performance, probably better than most of us, but they probably saw he had energy, enthusiasm, and potential.


Well, it could be the school wanted to take his money. I have no idea. I couldn't tell you how much a program like that costs smile


♯ ♮ ♭ ø ° Δ ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬
YouTube | SoundCloud
[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779356
11/08/18 05:41 PM
11/08/18 05:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,196
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,196
Canada
I'm not concerned about any of this per se. Here is what can concern me. You get fellow students who have put in some time and effort in starting to learn to play the piano. Then they post about a child billed as being 3 years old playing what he's still struggling with, or an adult who has been at it a fraction of the time he has, and ditto. You can psych yourself out depending on how you look at it. It can seem to trivialize your own efforts and make them seem silly. You question whether you achieved anything. You question the kind of work you have been doing diligently. Otoh, if it's a full-out cheat by a trained pianist wanting to get hits, then it makes a mockery of your efforts. So my concern is only if somebody ends up feeling miserable. Don't let that happen to you.

The person who uploaded the videos of his journey intended to "inspire" others. He has no idea that it might have the opposite effect. He is not an experienced teacher, and he is also not experienced enough on piano. He's trying to say "Look what I did. You can do it too." and doesn't anticipate, "Omg, he did this in six months and I'm still struggling with it after 2 years. I might as well give up now."

Everybody's path is different - many roads lead to Rome - music is a multifaceted thing. The path this person took probably advanced him in some areas, while leaving holes in others. Your own path (anybody here) may have given you things that will support you, where he has holes, while you will reach things later that he got to first. Each will bring in the missing bits in his own time.

When I was little my parents gave me a little keyboard with "child size" keys and a book meant for adult autodidacts (I was 8). Then I got a piano and a relative's books from a conservatory for "young ladies" in Germany in the early 1900's. I got straight into sonatinas. Fuer Else was one of the first things I every played. It was "mercurial" too. When I came back to piano 35 years later, my abilities and knowledge were all over the place. There are holes in what I can do and know so big you could drive a truck through. There are things I struggled with and still do, because of those fast beginnings. And then there are things I shouldn't know that are as certain as 1+1=2. I don't know if "mercurial" is a good thing. It's just different.

We each have our own path. We are where we are, and this gentleman is where he is. As long as nobody ends up stressing because of that video, I have no feelings about it. I like the fact that the young man is enjoying himself and is motivated.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2779362
11/08/18 05:53 PM
11/08/18 05:53 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,726
Florida
dogperson Offline
Silver Subscriber
dogperson  Offline
Silver Subscriber

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,726
Florida
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
It's obvious from his playing he would never be accepted to a high level conservatory. Without knowing what school accepted him his "getting into a conservatory" doesn't have much meaning IMO.

Well it does say "something" to me. I doubt there are any conservatories, no matter what tier, that often enroll students with only one year of experience. He did say in his Q&A he had some prior flute experience, but that probably can't be counted except from the perspective of being able to read notes on one staff before he started this 12 month self-improvement program. As bSharp(C)yclist said above, someone liked what he did. No doubt the examiner probably knew better than us all the flaws in his audition performance, probably better than most of us, but they probably saw he had energy, enthusiasm, and potential.


Well, it could be the school wanted to take his money. I have no idea. I couldn't tell you how much a program like that costs smile


No, the school, no matter which one, did not want to take his money. There are many applicants for every slot, and it does no good for any music program to enroll somebody who will drop out after one year or so.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779364
11/08/18 05:57 PM
11/08/18 05:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 120
A
Agent88 Offline
Full Member
Agent88  Offline
Full Member
A

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 120
I haven't, and probably won't, read all the details of this guy's story. And I may have skimmed this thread. So I apologize if I'm off base. And I'm not going to argue with a more experienced person who says I'm wrong or have the wrong impression. You win. I'm just skimmed through the one year progress video and I'm just throwing out my unqualified lay opinions.

I think a lot are making much of his one year progress. But I zeroed in on day one and day four. Where he was trying to read music and play. Sorry, I don't think he looked like someone with zero experience playing the piano. I would more readily believe he was formally instructed as a younger boy, and was trying to pick it up again.

Again, if you know better, you win. But that's my impression. People regularly post misleading things on the internet. Or say things in a way that allows others to read into it something they want, without actually lying. Which is not to say I'm accusing anyone of lying or misleading here. Only that that fact of life on the internet probably informs my opinion.

Again, I'm going to try not to argue with anyone about this. You win.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779380
11/08/18 06:36 PM
11/08/18 06:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 446
Dublin
J
johnstaf Online crying
Full Member
johnstaf  Online Crying
Full Member
J

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 446
Dublin
What pains me about videos like this is that some people will think it somehow lessens their own work, or that their progress is less remarkable. The fact of the matter is that if you follow good instruction on the piano, and it seems like you are not making as much progress as you would like, you don't necessarily realise what is going on somewhere in your brain. Then some day things fall into place, your hands take you on a roller-coaster ride and you ask yourself: "Did I just play that?!?!" Conscious (often slow) deliberate practise can make incredible things happen.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: johnstaf] #2779382
11/08/18 06:53 PM
11/08/18 06:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 120
A
Agent88 Offline
Full Member
Agent88  Offline
Full Member
A

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 120
Note to self: Steer clear of this thread.

John, not to take away from any of your points, but your comment about good instruction has me wondering what percentage of teachers do you imagine consider good instruction having students completely new to the piano work on such music reading and playing on day one and four of someone's first exposure to piano playing? I'm not a teacher so could we get a show or hands from those who are and have students new to the piano jump in like that?

And this has nothing to do with any personal feeling of inadequacy or not being able to progress as fast. I began with professional instruction. And on day one no such level of music was put in front of me. Not even close. So I'm wondering if teachers are doing it wrong and this guy got "good instruction"?

Originally Posted by johnstaf
What pains me about videos like this is that some people will think it somehow lessens their own work, or that their progress is less remarkable. The fact of the matter is that if you follow good instruction on the piano, and it seems like you are not making as much progress as you would like, you don't necessarily realise what is going on somewhere in your brain. Then some day things fall into place, your hands take you on a roller-coaster ride and you ask yourself: "Did I just play that?!?!" Conscious (often slow) deliberate practise can make incredible things happen.


Last edited by Agent88; 11/08/18 06:58 PM.
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Agent88] #2779385
11/08/18 07:07 PM
11/08/18 07:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
500 Post Club Member
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Originally Posted by Agent88
But I zeroed in on day one and day four. Where he was trying to read music and play. Sorry, I don't think he looked like someone with zero experience playing the piano. I would more readily believe he was formally instructed as a younger boy, and was trying to pick it up again.

He posted on his YouTube channel he had prior experience with flute from a few years before and already knew how to read music before although it had already been a few years. You win too. Perceptive observation.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Agent88] #2779386
11/08/18 07:16 PM
11/08/18 07:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
500 Post Club Member
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 679
Originally Posted by Agent88
And this has nothing to do with any personal feeling of inadequacy or not being able to progress as fast. I began with professional instruction. And on day one no such level of music was put in front of me. Not even close. So I'm wondering if teachers are doing it wrong and this guy got "good instruction"?

Most teachers subscribe to the walk before running, crawl before walking school - rightly so too. However, stories like this are not completely unheard of. One was posted to the teacher's forum a few months ago from a student who felt his teacher was dragging him along with material that was too advanced. We've all heard about teachers of real-life prodigies (but in those cases, the teacher probably already got the measure of the student first and understood they could handle a faster pace). The 7yo's playing Moonlight mvt 3 had to learn somewhere - doubt they taught themselves. While we want to think that no piano teacher would conduct "piano pedagogical malpractice" by force feeding repertoire to a student which is not merely challenging but clearly too advanced for the student, I think there are those out there who have their own theories of education/pedagogy.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Agent88] #2779389
11/08/18 07:29 PM
11/08/18 07:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 446
Dublin
J
johnstaf Online crying
Full Member
johnstaf  Online Crying
Full Member
J

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 446
Dublin
Originally Posted by Agent88

And this has nothing to do with any personal feeling of inadequacy or not being able to progress as fast. I began with professional instruction. And on day one no such level of music was put in front of me. Not even close. So I'm wondering if teachers are doing it wrong and this guy got "good instruction"?


With a good teacher you might feel you are progressing very slowly, but I see spending time on the fundamentals as like building a firm foundation. You can make tremendous leaps forward if you attend to the basics, and let everything take its time. Concentration during practise is, IMHO, the only thing that matters. Beginners have a kind of mental overload, and it can seem like dragging a rock up a steep hill. Someone who has already studied music just has to concentrate on the peculiarities of the piano.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779392
11/08/18 07:38 PM
11/08/18 07:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 446
Dublin
J
johnstaf Online crying
Full Member
johnstaf  Online Crying
Full Member
J

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 446
Dublin
I studied music in college (without an instrument), and everyone was required to take keyboard skills, which was realising continuo as well as sight-reading scores and transposing at sight. Some people didn't play the piano already, but they were able to do it, as their level of general musical training was at a high level. A good friend of mine is a composer of wonderful choral music. He can sight-read scores pretty well, but he says he can't play the piano.

Beginners at the piano are usually beginning their musical training as well. This is why you have to take someone's full history into account.

Last edited by johnstaf; 11/08/18 07:40 PM.
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: johnstaf] #2779393
11/08/18 07:50 PM
11/08/18 07:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 120
A
Agent88 Offline
Full Member
Agent88  Offline
Full Member
A

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 120
John, unlike a lot of commentators above I didn't really pay too much attention to the end result and was trying to emphasize my comments had nothing to do with comparing my own progress. I see now what I wrote might be read as an admission I did not progress as fast. That is not what I intended to express.

My point focuses on day one and day four. When comparing day one and day four I cannot conclude I didn't progress as quickly because that level of playing was not introduced to me. Even though I told my teacher I studied music theory at university.

And I would like to know how many teachers start students with zero experience on the piano with that level of music.

Even if they already play an instrument and can read music.

I don't know, and I admit this above, but I don't see reading music as the whole ball of wax. I think learning the keys and how to play them as being somewhat of a challenge. Especially with two hands. And would personally be very surprised if we get a majority of experienced, full time, pedagogy trained teacher here who start someone new to piano out on that level of music and playing.

I could be wrong. So I'm asking and have no problem being told it would be wholly appropriate for someone who could already play the flute.

But in my experience -- admittedly limited -- I'm guessing that doesn't happen too often. Thus, I suspect he doesn't have good instruction and he's self-taught. Or, my guess, he's played before and is picking it up again. Or both.

My analysis has nothing to do with where he wound up after a year. It's focused on where he began on day one. And it doesn't pass the smell test to me. BUT, I admit I lack the credentials to do much more than use logic and experience to formulate my view.

Carry on.

Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Agent88

And this has nothing to do with any personal feeling of inadequacy or not being able to progress as fast. I began with professional instruction. And on day one no such level of music was put in front of me. Not even close. So I'm wondering if teachers are doing it wrong and this guy got "good instruction"?


With a good teacher you might feel you are progressing very slowly, but I see spending time on the fundamentals as like building a firm foundation. You can make tremendous leaps forward if you attend to the basics, and let everything take its time. Concentration during practise is, IMHO, the only thing that matters. Beginners have a kind of mental overload, and it can seem like dragging a rock up a steep hill. Someone who has already studied music just has to concentrate on the peculiarities of the piano.


Last edited by Agent88; 11/08/18 07:58 PM.
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  BB Player 

(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Of speakers and watts
by mydp. 11/13/18 05:35 PM
altered chords and chord progressions
by Jitin. 11/13/18 12:26 PM
Ornette Coleman's "Lonely Woman"
by KenBakerMN. 11/13/18 08:54 AM
Crackling noise when recording digital piano
by Tommm777. 11/13/18 01:01 AM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics188,318
Posts2,760,813
Members91,484
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2