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Learning piano #2778832
11/06/18 06:48 PM
11/06/18 06:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 16
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Manne janne Offline OP
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Manne janne  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2018
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I often feel that parents and other adults allow infants to hear small phrases instead of many sentences at once. They also speak in a "easy" way to infants but not to adults.
When learning a language you are most of the time, it seems, supposed to not be spoken to as an infant or something simmilar. An adult is no infant but still not an "adult" in the foreign language.
When learning the musikal language People just assume that you can hear lots of phrases at once or a full tune at once and start learning. It never really works for me. I never imitate by hearing too many phrases at once.
My teacher sometimes just assume that I am an "adult" in the musical language and technique when I am not.
Music is obviously different from normal language as music requers that you learn concrete tunes rather than just improvised normal language.
What are your expert views on this?

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Re: Learning piano [Re: Manne janne] #2778838
11/06/18 07:00 PM
11/06/18 07:00 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,741
Florida
dogperson Offline
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dogperson  Offline
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Florida
When your teacher assumes that you are an adult in terms of musical language, how do you react? At that point, it’s appropriate to say “I don’t understand “, or “please explain a different way” or “ can we break that down into steps” or “please show me”.

I operate under the principal that, as an adult student, I am also responsible for my training, and that means having questions during my lessons and being sure that I understand.

Re: Learning piano [Re: dogperson] #2778892
11/07/18 03:46 AM
11/07/18 03:46 AM
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Posts: 16
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Manne janne Offline OP
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Manne janne  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dogperson
When your teacher assumes that you are an adult in terms of musical language, how do you react? At that point, it’s appropriate to say “I don’t understand “, or “please explain a different way” or “ can we break that down into steps” or “please show me”.

I operate under the principal that, as an adult student, I am also responsible for my training, and that means having questions during my lessons and being sure that I understand.

The teacher should know when to slow things down, right?

Re: Learning piano [Re: Manne janne] #2778900
11/07/18 04:49 AM
11/07/18 04:49 AM
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barbaram Offline

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Originally Posted by Manne janne

The teacher should know when to slow things down, right?


They should be observant and be able to adapt based on what they see and hear, sure.
But they are not psychic,
A great way to help the teacher know when to slow things down is to *tell* them that you need them to slow down.

Re: Learning piano [Re: Manne janne] #2778925
11/07/18 07:59 AM
11/07/18 07:59 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,741
Florida
dogperson Offline
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Asking questions and being involved at your lessons is not just a way to get your teacher to ‘slow down ‘ but also a wonderful opportunity to pick the brain of a highly educated, skilled musician...... I really can’t think of all examples but here is one: if learning to play ornaments in a Bach score, there is no reason not to learn what would be the differences in romantic music.

If having a problem with a particular technique, let your teacher know what you have tried when you practice. I start each of my lessons with the issues:questions I have identifieud during my practice and we work on those and then play through to identify others. There are multiple ways to approach each technique.... give your teacher the opportunity to know you need more help or a different approach. There is no need for psychic abilities . If a teacher provides instruction and you just nod your head, how can they quickly guess you don’t really understand?

I have progressed much quicker as an adult student than I did as a child, because I now see the involvement I can have. and the difference it can make

Last edited by dogperson; 11/07/18 08:03 AM.
Re: Learning piano [Re: dogperson] #2778930
11/07/18 08:42 AM
11/07/18 08:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Texas
Dr. Rogers Offline
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Dr. Rogers  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 122
Texas
Originally Posted by dogperson
Asking questions and being involved at your lessons is not just a way to get your teacher to ‘slow down ‘ but also a wonderful opportunity to pick the brain of a highly educated, skilled musician......


Spot on!

Most good teachers WANT feedback from their students. It makes my job so much easier when my students ask questions and communicate rather than just sit there and nod. If they're not understanding something, or if I'm moving too fast, I need to know it. I encourage my students to ask questions every lesson, and constantly remind them to let me know if they don't understand something. Many of my students are inveterate introverts (much like myself), so sometimes it takes a lot of encouragement before they will speak up. But I want them to!

Manne janne, I like the way you are thinking about this. There's always more than one way to skin a cat, but starting at the phrase level is a good approach. Break a piece down into manageable chunks - phrases are often a good guideline here. But don't neglect to put the phrases together! It's quite possible to be able to play each phrase beautifully by itself, yet not be able to bring them together into a coherent whole. Also, you can consider how the phrases relate to each other. Is there repetition? Imitation? Does thematic material appear? How does this phrase fit in to the overall structure of the piece? What are the chords in these phrases? How are these chords functioning in this phrase, and in other phrases?

Good luck, and don't be afraid to open up to your teacher. He or she probably wants to hear more from you, and if not, shame on them!


Austin Rogers, PhD
Music Teacher in Austin, TX
Baldwin SD-10 Concert Grand "Kuroneko", Baldwin Upright, Yamaha P-255
Re: Learning piano [Re: Manne janne] #2778977
11/07/18 01:16 PM
11/07/18 01:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 16
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Manne janne Offline OP
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Manne janne  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 16
The whole issue of asking question is very interesting.
We all have different experiences with this. Let me tell you of something I've experienced. I will do this in order for us to give eachother practical tips.
I am practicing/studying gammaldans (both dancing and accordion). At the practice session (refering to dancing) there is very little is very little time for question. You bassically just dance and they tell you if there is something to perfect. When learning accordion I ask question/discuss things. But with a waltz there are the bassic steps but a waltz in music have much more going on at the foundational level ie. different melodies and progressions.
Certain things are often the same in the gammalvals I am refering to. The phrasing is the same and the ending is often the same. You can often med with the 1-5-3-1 in the bass. It seems to me that the issue here is that the melodies are many but the dancing has few steps. Then at the accordion course I often learn jazz as well.
At the piano course the same thing applies. We look at different kinds of music not just inte kind of music. So at a piano course we have different kinds of tunes to learn and different styles to learn.
At the dance course I practice the dancing as well. At the piano course I go through tunes but only practice at home.
Also, I find that just followibf a teacher is easier for dancing than piano.
I feel that for piano I am going more of the leading ie. what to focus on. I sometimes wish that piano could be more like dancing and dancing more like piano.
The only tip I can give someone is: focus on showing a teacher what you've done and det the teacher tell you what to perfect or works.

What do you think?
And have you also used this cool waltz ending?


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