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Classically trained piano player looking for advice #2777850
11/03/18 03:17 PM
11/03/18 03:17 PM
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mrdfw Offline OP
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Hi everyone,
This is my first post on this forum, and hoping to be part of this great community. Let's cut to the chase.

I'm classically trained in my early teenage years and can play most Chopin nocturnes, Bach - Italian Concerto (just to give an idea about my level). I've very little to none stage experience. Recently decided to expand my horizon to jazz/blues piano. I've always been an avid jazz listener, but never attempted to study it seriously, as an amateur pianist. So my ears are pretty well-trained, hands are well-trained, but probably need to work on jazz scales and finger dexterity a bit more.

Eventually, I'm looking to play on stage, be it random blues nights, if I can get better, may be some amateur jazz nights etc. I'm in my early 30s, if that matters. What are some advises I can get from this community to get started to seriously study jazz piano, mostly the performance part. Any good sources for a player in my level to become a average jazz/blues player?

Any advice for evolving from a solo piano player to a band member also appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

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Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2777854
11/03/18 03:36 PM
11/03/18 03:36 PM
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indigo_dave Offline
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I recently subscribed to Peter Martin's Open Studio. I think it may be a good option for you. You can check out some of their sample lessons on their site.

https://www.openstudionetwork.com/

Last edited by indigo_dave; 11/03/18 03:36 PM.
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2777862
11/03/18 03:56 PM
11/03/18 03:56 PM
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Ottawa, Canada
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halherta Offline
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Have a look at Kent Hewitt's Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdmjw5sm9Kn83TB_rA_QBCw/featured .A tonne of useful resources there. I believe he also has a jazz book that he sells on his website http://www.kenthewitt.com/

Mark Levine's Jazz Piano Book as another highly recommended text https://www.amazon.ca/dp/0961470151...217QM&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Bill Hilton also has some nice videos on Jazz Piano on his site. Though I think it targets more beginner and early intermediate level: https://www.youtube.com/user/billhiltonbiz


Yamaha P-125, Roland GO:Piano, Pianoteq 6, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2777879
11/03/18 04:57 PM
11/03/18 04:57 PM
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I am also classically trained from a fairly young age. I undertook to expand my horizons to jazz about 6 years ago. After purchasing a number of books to this end, I must say that one book that made a huge difference for me was the Exploring Jazz Piano by Tim Richards.

It has 2 volumes, vol. 1 and vol. 2. In vol. 1, I found that there was a fair amount of overlap with notions I already had from my earlier training, but was still useful to some extent. However vol. 2 really opened up a whole new world for me and made me progress by leaps and bounds. Depending on your current background, your take on this may vary of course.

BTW I have no connections/financial interests with these books, just a happy user and another point of view for your consideration.

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2777881
11/03/18 05:02 PM
11/03/18 05:02 PM
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http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...t-advanced-arrangements.html#Post2555182

I also contributed to this thread a while back on a somewhat similar subject which you may find useful.

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2777887
11/03/18 05:34 PM
11/03/18 05:34 PM
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Istanbul
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IosPlayer Offline
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Try Dave Frank. Free master classes and more. One of the few jazz teachers I would recommend.
Studied with Lennie Tristano. Taught at Berklee in Boston.
http://www.davefrankjazz.com/


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: IosPlayer] #2777890
11/03/18 05:45 PM
11/03/18 05:45 PM
Joined: May 2015
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Florida
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Originally Posted by IosPlayer
Try Dave Frank. Free master classes and more. One of the few jazz teachers I would recommend.
Studied with Lennie Tristano. Taught at Berklee in Boston.
http://www.davefrankjazz.com/


Dave is a forum member here and posts announcements of free, online lessons
His member ID is DFrankJazz

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2777999
11/04/18 08:51 AM
11/04/18 08:51 AM
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dmd Offline
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This might be a good fit for you ….

http://www.planetmullins.com/


Don

Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course - Completed Chapter 5

Pianoteq, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: kanadajin] #2778029
11/04/18 11:12 AM
11/04/18 11:12 AM
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mrdfw Offline OP
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Wow, these are great advises.

Thanks a lot! I'll check out the lessons and come back here later.

I've recently started studying The Jazz Piano Book by Levine and got myself some jazz/blues hanon books. Levine's book seems to take a really different approach, and I like how he explains the theory on real jazz examples. Even as a jazz listener, I found it quite empowering to train your ear with the theory on the book.

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: indigo_dave] #2778034
11/04/18 11:21 AM
11/04/18 11:21 AM
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mrdfw Offline OP
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Peter Martin's classes look promising. Any experience?

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778037
11/04/18 11:25 AM
11/04/18 11:25 AM
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mrdfw: As someone who has gone through this process (I now perform regularly) here are some basics things to orient you:
1. You'll need re-wire your brain to approach music in a new way. It's no longer the notes on the page. It's the chord progressions and the rhythm.
2. Get some fake books. Either the classic Real Book (Vols 1-3) or the New Real Book series. Your goal is to learn to play tunes based on lead sheets.
3. Playing solo jazz and jazz with a group are two very different propositions. For example, when playing with a group, comping is your most important task, but when playing solo, you don't comp for yourself obviously.
4. The place my teacher started me some 10 years ago was learning the ii-V-I progression; it lies at the core of the standard jazz repertory. It's in almost all the lead sheets.

I don't disagree with the books and web sites that have been suggested (although a live teacher is better), but these are just some thoughts to orient you as to where you are going.

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: kanadajin] #2778041
11/04/18 11:35 AM
11/04/18 11:35 AM
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mrdfw Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kanadajin
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...t-advanced-arrangements.html#Post2555182

I also contributed to this thread a while back on a somewhat similar subject which you may find useful.


Thanks a lot! Transcribe seems amazing. I'll give it a try.

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: jjo] #2778057
11/04/18 12:39 PM
11/04/18 12:39 PM
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mrdfw Offline OP
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Originally Posted by jjo
mrdfw: As someone who has gone through this process (I now perform regularly) here are some basics things to orient you:
1. You'll need re-wire your brain to approach music in a new way. It's no longer the notes on the page. It's the chord progressions and the rhythm.
2. Get some fake books. Either the classic Real Book (Vols 1-3) or the New Real Book series. Your goal is to learn to play tunes based on lead sheets.
3. Playing solo jazz and jazz with a group are two very different propositions. For example, when playing with a group, comping is your most important task, but when playing solo, you don't comp for yourself obviously.
4. The place my teacher started me some 10 years ago was learning the ii-V-I progression; it lies at the core of the standard jazz repertory. It's in almost all the lead sheets.

I don't disagree with the books and web sites that have been suggested (although a live teacher is better), but these are just some thoughts to orient you as to where you are going.


Hi jjo, I think the first point you made is the most important step, which I struggled for years and ended up giving up, until now. I needed to stop studying classical sheet music for awhile to be able to do that. It's amazing to discover how the same instrument has so many different approaches. I think that's what makes musicianship a lifelong journey.

And thanks for the guidance. I'm taking every post here very seriously.

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778178
11/04/18 05:16 PM
11/04/18 05:16 PM
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This is one of the Open Studio video blogs they posted on YouTube. It's sort of casual and off the cuff. You should also check out some of their sample lessons. If you're curious about them. My thinking is that if you are classically trained and have a solid grounding in traditional music theory this method could be beneficial. I'm not so sure about a beginner. I think they may need more hands on teaching.

I recently subscribed to their whole library of lessons and blogs. It's already making me think outside my standard "go to's" - stock chord voicings I tend to play over and over. Making me think of things that wouldn't have occurred to me.


Last edited by indigo_dave; 11/04/18 05:18 PM.
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: indigo_dave] #2778280
11/05/18 01:31 AM
11/05/18 01:31 AM
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mrdfw Offline OP
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Originally Posted by indigo_dave
This is one of the Open Studio video blogs they posted on YouTube. It's sort of casual and off the cuff. You should also check out some of their sample lessons. If you're curious about them. My thinking is that if you are classically trained and have a solid grounding in traditional music theory this method could be beneficial. I'm not so sure about a beginner. I think they may need more hands on teaching.

I recently subscribed to their whole library of lessons and blogs. It's already making me think outside my standard "go to's" - stock chord voicings I tend to play over and over. Making me think of things that wouldn't have occurred to me.



Thanks Dave. Do you happen to have the list of those blogs, lessons to share it here? Or is there any other place in the forum where I can find such suggestions?

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778295
11/05/18 03:58 AM
11/05/18 03:58 AM
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mrdfw , I repeat : the transition from classic to jazz thinking occurs only through rhythm, swing and articulation. Any note of jazz tunes and any jazz harmonies can be played by any classically trained pianist; but it won't SOUND like jazz.
It all starts with prosody of rhythm and swing; melodica is the best tool for this.

https://yadi.sk/d/7o0VF6fwXfjUGA

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778297
11/05/18 04:28 AM
11/05/18 04:28 AM
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IosPlayer Offline
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With respect to Nahum, he falls into a common pitfall. Yes, if you can emulate swing (syncopation and rhythm) you can play something that sounds like jazz, but it is not necessarily something that comes from the heart and soul. The very essence of jazz is missed in this way because the elephant in the room is not addressed. That pachyderm is melody and everything true in jazz springs from that core. I am pretty sure about this after fifty years of playing, studying with a master and recording.
It is quite simple, but, like so many things in life, it is difficult to find a source of true knowledge.
You can become a parent without any true knowledge of the subject of children, so why not a jazz teacher or player?

Most jazz we hear today is what people look up from their drinks and think. "Mm...that's jazz I hear." And most people are okay playing something they think is jazz. Ok. No problem! If it fills the desire, great, I wish them happiness. But some look for something more. A connection with the original within each of us and a further connection with something a lot bigger than our desires and egos. If you want to reach that place ( or at least begin the journey) you need to understand the truth of it. Hard to do without a teacher who knows. Unfortunately, many who are true jazz players are not good teachers so it is a real search. Again, Dave Frank, a member of the forum might be for you. I recently PMd an essay I wrote (actually three) to a forum member on the most important things my late, great teacher, Connie Crothers, taught me. If you are interested just PM me and I will share them with you.


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778299
11/05/18 04:41 AM
11/05/18 04:41 AM
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Nahum Offline
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Originally Posted by IosPlayer
With respect to Nahum, he falls into a common pitfall. Yes, if you can emulate swing (syncopation and rhythm) you can play something that sounds like jazz, but it is not necessarily something that comes from the heart and soul.


My student-

Has several Grammy.

Last edited by Nahum; 11/05/18 04:42 AM.
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778322
11/05/18 07:33 AM
11/05/18 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mrdfw


Thanks Dave. Do you happen to have the list of those blogs, lessons to share it here? Or is there any other place in the forum where I can find such suggestions?


To find the samples they posted on YouTube, go to YouTube and type in the search box: Open Studio Peter Martin
It appears there are more than a dozen free samples. They just posted a new one today (posted below). This is from their podcast. For lesson content go to "Peter Martin's Open Studio" and look around.


Last edited by indigo_dave; 11/05/18 07:36 AM.
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778328
11/05/18 07:46 AM
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IosPlayer Offline
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That is quite impressive, Nahum. I have watched him play and liked it. Where can I hear your music?


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778329
11/05/18 07:55 AM
11/05/18 07:55 AM
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Not who I thought, Nahum. With respect and Grammys aside, not my cup of tea. Exactly what I am talking about. Just my opinion, of course.


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778342
11/05/18 08:46 AM
11/05/18 08:46 AM
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by mrdfw
What are some advises I can get from this community to get started to seriously study jazz piano, mostly the performance part.


I would also take a look at ….

Bill Rinehart at ….

http://jazzpianoonline.com/

He studied at Berkeley and his site is very thoroughly detailed oriented with some free stuff to help you decide if it might be a fit for you.

He also offers lessons live via Skype or at his studio.

I would give it a look.


Don

Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course - Completed Chapter 5

Pianoteq, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: IosPlayer] #2778371
11/05/18 10:55 AM
11/05/18 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by IosPlayer
I recently PMd an essay I wrote (actually three) to a forum member on the most important things my late, great teacher, Connie Crothers, taught me. If you are interested just PM me and I will share them with you.

If you don't mind, I would love to read it, too.

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778414
11/05/18 01:16 PM
11/05/18 01:16 PM
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raleigh, nc
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My site may help you. I've got lots of FREE content here:

Five Essential Seventh Chords
https://bit.ly/2OnP68H

Five Essential Seventh Chords - Tunes (A new FREE series showing you how to play seventh chords over standard tunes- new lessons added regularly)
https://bit.ly/2Nj9W4m

Improv- The Concept
https://bit.ly/2IymeFh

Major ii-V-I Progression
https://bit.ly/2NjPqRj

Lydian Ending
https://bit.ly/2NdXumh


And more FREE content:

Mini Jazz Lessons - Mini Lessons are concise tutorials on a narrow topic related to various lessons on the site.
https://bit.ly/2xVUcPM

Jazz Licks - These licks are taken from various lessons on the site. Add them to your solos!
https://bit.ly/2Nisj9q


If you like the free content there is a massive amount of material available with your paid subscription.

Just some of the things you can learn:

Rootless Voicings with Added Tension: http://bit.ly/2RoEkh2

Solo Jazz Piano: http://bit.ly/2P8N1dQ

Comping: http://bit.ly/2DVUzzq

How to Improvise: http://bit.ly/2O4VYbo

And that's just the tip of the iceberg! Please contact me if there is a topic that you are interested in pursuing and you don’t see it on the site.


Overwhelmed at the possibilities? Consult the Roadmap (https://bit.ly/2RgsvJE) to chart a course for your lessons.

Personal attention is a click away. One-on-one webcam lessons are available here: https://bit.ly/2xSbxcG


Read the latest newsletter for more: http://bit.ly/jpowhatsnew


I've been helping students learn online since 2007!


Bill
bill@jazzpianoonline.com
www.JazzPianoOnline.com
Online Jazz Piano Lessons
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Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778425
11/05/18 02:09 PM
11/05/18 02:09 PM
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IosPlayer Offline
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JazzPianoOnline. I still would like to hear you play. Where might I find that? Thanks.


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: IosPlayer] #2778469
11/05/18 04:10 PM
11/05/18 04:10 PM
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Nahum Offline
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Originally Posted by IosPlayer
Not who I thought, Nahum. With respect and Grammys aside, not my cup of tea..
Agree; it's such a small thing, meaningless. In general, there are people who are not versed in jazz ...

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778509
11/05/18 05:41 PM
11/05/18 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdfw
probably need to work on jazz scales and finger dexterity a bit more.

Not in first place.
Just sit on the piano and only play what you hear in your head. At the beginning this could be very little, but be honest and start with a view notes.
The point is to always be aware what you are doing (and not just playing scales up and down without any musical content).

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: mrdfw] #2778515
11/05/18 05:55 PM
11/05/18 05:55 PM
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Sorry to upset your apple cart, Nahum. Even the lowly are entitled to their opinion. Mark Eliyahu, your countryman, plays from his heart and soul. Not jazz, but not lifeless either. No Grammys though. Mmmm. Bad sign.


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B
Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: Nahum] #2778566
11/05/18 08:13 PM
11/05/18 08:13 PM
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mrdfw Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Nahum
mrdfw , I repeat : the transition from classic to jazz thinking occurs only through rhythm, swing and articulation. Any note of jazz tunes and any jazz harmonies can be played by any classically trained pianist; but it won't SOUND like jazz.
It all starts with prosody of rhythm and swing; melodica is the best tool for this.

https://yadi.sk/d/7o0VF6fwXfjUGA


Hi Nahum, I totally hear what you are saying and it's definitely a big part of the transition.

Melodica is an interesting example. Do you have any other practical suggestions on the piano itself to practice/learn rhythm?

Re: Classically trained piano player looking for advice [Re: indigo_dave] #2778617
11/06/18 02:17 AM
11/06/18 02:17 AM
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Posts: 11
Originally Posted by indigo_dave
I recently subscribed to Peter Martin's Open Studio. I think it may be a good option for you. You can check out some of their sample lessons on their site.

https://www.openstudionetwork.com/


I recently subscribed to Open Studio. The beginner jazz seems to be good starting point. It took me a couple of hours to reach to Lesson 4, but it's going to get harder I believe.

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