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Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2778651
11/06/18 06:38 AM
11/06/18 06:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,838
Georgia, USA
Sam S Offline

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Georgia, USA
Its difficult not to compare yourself to others, but you will be happier if you can manage to do it. There will always be people that play better than you.

Sam

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Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Sam S] #2778655
11/06/18 07:05 AM
11/06/18 07:05 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,795
Florida
dogperson Offline
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Florida
Originally Posted by Sam S
Its difficult not to compare yourself to others, but you will be happier if you can manage to do it. There will always be people that play better than you.

Sam
.

...... and there will always be those that state ‘I wish I could play the piano’, but never take the plunge. That should be our comparison group😊..., those that ‘wish’ rather than ‘do’.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2778664
11/06/18 08:04 AM
11/06/18 08:04 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,386
Owen Sound, Ontario
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Greener Offline

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Owen Sound, Ontario
Originally Posted by ZanderChicago
This guy claims to have just started taking piano lessons and can play these pieces. All under a year of starting. I say NO WAY. What do you all think? Is it possible?



You have heard the one about the Tortoise and the Hare, yes?

Nothing is flawless here. All is rushed and melodic and amateurish tone quality. Expected of course, but overall seems impressive at this distance, admittedly.

At least compare apples to apples if you're going to compare at all. This Hare is focused on playing only and these snippets are from all his practice playing these pieces, I assume by rote and memory. Can he read what he plays? Has he any theory, even the most basic or posture, fingering training? If not, when is he going to learn this other stuff? It's an individual choice if he does at all and no harm in whatever choice is made, so long as it is in keeping with the desired outcome.

When they are doing great at one year, I like to see what they are doing at 5 years, then 10. Things usually start to level out by then, but we're not all out for the same things either. Some are quicker than others and that is just life. It is not a race. Stay your course and be confident in the method you are using.

Tone quality will come from playing experience and the lack of it shows, no matter how quick the progression seems to be.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: pianoloverus] #2778807
11/06/18 04:46 PM
11/06/18 04:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 599
Kitsap County, WA
squidbot Offline
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Kitsap County, WA
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by squidbot
And edit, meant to say this but forgot, I think he's way to early to be playing Op 66. I think he's setting himself up for a lifetime of playing it poorly. But that's just my opinion.
It may be too early for this piece. but playing it poorly at this stage does not mean he can't play it much better later on.


It's an interesting question and you're probably right, I may have been hyperbolic. I guess you could "unlearn" what you've done, but man it would be hard to do that for a whole piece. In one of the pieces I'm learning now I'm just trying to undo a few months of playing fingering a certain way for one measure and it's really, really difficult to change at this point.

I will say that I'm surprised his teacher supported him learning it. For a couple of months I was playing Chopin's black key etude, but purely as a technical exercise, playing it extremely slowly and only one bar a week. It was my teacher's suggestion (I'm not a huge fan of Hanon type things), but he cautioned me about trying to think of it as something I'd turn in to repertoire. I'll probably revisit it in 10 years or so smile


Last edited by squidbot; 11/06/18 04:48 PM.


Currently learning: Beethoven "Easy" Sonata Op 49 No 2, JS Bach WTC Prelude No 2 in C minor, Grieg Lyric Pieces Book 1
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2778819
11/06/18 05:48 PM
11/06/18 05:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,959
Maine
Peyton Offline
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Peyton  Offline
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Maine
What gets me is the rapid learning of piece after piece. I suppose it’s possible but to learn piano AND to read music that quickly he must be quite a prodigy. Good for him. Wish I could learn that quickly.

But what really amazes me is that he has a million and a half views!!! Holy cow! That’s even more than some silly cat videos.


"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Peyton] #2778836
11/06/18 06:57 PM
11/06/18 06:57 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,907
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by Peyton
[...]That’s even more than some silly cat videos.


How silly do cats have to be before they can make videos! smile

Cheers, folks!


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Peyton] #2778893
11/07/18 03:55 AM
11/07/18 03:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 447
Toronto, Canada
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thepianoplayer416 Offline
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Posts: 447
Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by Peyton
But what really amazes me is that he has a million and a half views!!! Holy cow! That’s even more than some silly cat videos.


When it comes to YouTube videos, sometimes we forget the audience is not very sophisticated. Many of them probably don't play music of any kind. Anybody who can play at an advanced level can attract an audience. We are not talking about viewers who may be music teachers and even ones who teach at an university or a prestigious music school who are looking for good dynamics, phrasing, etc.

A few years ago, I came across a YouTube video with the title "3 year old violinist" presumably from Korea. The video featured a young lady playing "Twinkle Variations" from Suzuki Book 1. In just a year the video had over 3M views. Anybody who knows the Suzuki music program, students are required to learn the Twinkle Variations by ear and perform the pieces in their first recital at the end of the year. Every day you see new comments that numbered in the thousands. Some complemented on her wonderful playing that she is a prodigy while others criticized the parents for pushing the kid into music at such a young age (that she didn't choose to play an instrument on her own sort of thing). And others talked about her "stabbing the instrument". The way students play the Twinkle Var. tend to be rather mechanical repeating each note 4x with different rhythms. A friend of my family got their 2 kids (around age 5) enrolled in the Suzuki piano & violin programs. They had to go through the same repertoire starting with Book 1 Twinkle Var. as the first pieces on the list. Back then the 2 kids did not post their videos online. Some people think a kid at age 3 who can perform even a easy piece without mistakes is a genius.

-------------------

The first thing I can pick out on this YouTube video is that the man who learned his pieces for over a year did not "read" music. There is no indication anywhere whether he learned from sheet music and then memorized his pieces or he simply followed YouTube demos on finger sequences and would learn his pieces completely by ear.
His hands seemed relaxed with nice phrasing / hand gestures. Many of us struggled playing the right notes... never mind the phrasing & dynamics.

I know a man who learned by play by watching YouTube demos. For the past 3 years he learned to play just 5 advanced pieces which he would practice for many months. And he put off learning notations as being too difficult and would only get into a piece if he can find video demos... no concern for the technical stuff: tempo, dynamics, Key Signature, Time Signature even don't get into counting beats.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2778994
11/07/18 02:42 PM
11/07/18 02:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 5
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philipraposo1982 Offline
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 5
I rarely post here and this is kind of why.

I know what I am about to say is going to trigger a bunch of you but here it goes.

Many time people on here sound very elitist. Who cares how he progressed, why he plays, if he learned theory, can he read sheet music, did he watch demos, ect..

I feel many new piano players will steer clear from this forum for this reason. Feeling like they will be critised to no end because of how they play.

I for one go by the rule that if we can't offer something constructive to say and offer feedback in a positive way then we shouldn't say anything at all.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: philipraposo1982] #2779017
11/07/18 03:47 PM
11/07/18 03:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 17
Warsaw
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Purrblast Offline
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Purrblast  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2018
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Warsaw
Originally Posted by philipraposo1982

(...)
Many time people on here sound very elitist. Who cares how he progressed, why he plays, if he learned theory, can he read sheet music, did he watch demos, ect..
(...)

Speaking for myself: I'm new here and also beginner and I have to admit that I was tempted to post this link here myself. I was just curious of the opinions (from colleagues with more years under belt as well as teaching experience) and I'm glad someone else posted it. Didn't find replies elitist and tbh I identify with some of the shared opinions.

Originally Posted by philipraposo1982

I feel many new piano players will steer clear from this forum for this reason. Feeling like they will be critised to no end because of how they play.

I for one go by the rule that if we can't offer something constructive to say and offer feedback in a positive way then we shouldn't say anything at all.

Personally I registered to look for criticism as as beginner I don't have much experience to share and help. And I'm glad that people express freely here. There are not many places where piano loving comunity "hang out". Others that I found are either half-dead (pianostreet, though I found some brilliant posts in history) or not very structured with lots of post that I'm not very interested in (/r/piano and lots of questions that are answered in faq).

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: philipraposo1982] #2779049
11/07/18 04:48 PM
11/07/18 04:48 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,795
Florida
dogperson Offline
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dogperson  Offline
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,795
Florida
Originally Posted by philipraposo1982
I rarely post here and this is kind of why.

I know what I am about to say is going to trigger a bunch of you but here it goes.

Many time people on here sound very elitist. Who cares how he progressed, why he plays, if he learned theory, can he read sheet music, did he watch demos, ect..

I feel many new piano players will steer clear from this forum for this reason. Feeling like they will be critised to no end because of how they play.

I for one go by the rule that if we can't offer something constructive to say and offer feedback in a positive way then we shouldn't say anything at all.


This was not posted by the pianist asking for feedback, but by someone whoo just found the YouTube. Videos. This is a Different situation than a forum member asking for help and feedback. If you look at the general feedback from the ABF recitals, the comments are supportive regardless of the level and the quality.

This was different, and many of the comments were based on the thought of
‘He really did this???? I didn’t’. Is he real? How good is he REALLY

IMHO, a waste of time to compare ourselves to others.... just human nature.... but not cruel to question a meteoric progression.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: philipraposo1982] #2779051
11/07/18 04:51 PM
11/07/18 04:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,004
Midwest USA
Stubbie Offline
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Stubbie  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,004
Midwest USA
Originally Posted by philipraposo1982
I rarely post here and this is kind of why.

I know what I am about to say is going to trigger a bunch of you but here it goes.

Many time people on here sound very elitist. Who cares how he progressed, why he plays, if he learned theory, can he read sheet music, did he watch demos, ect..

I feel many new piano players will steer clear from this forum for this reason. Feeling like they will be critised to no end because of how they play.

I for one go by the rule that if we can't offer something constructive to say and offer feedback in a positive way then we shouldn't say anything at all.
Certainly there is no call for plain old meanness, and I think here on the ABF when it does occur, it's an outlier.

As for who cares how he progressed, well, a lot of people. It's an interesting topic for discussion. Some will find tips and/or inspiration for their own studies.

Over the years I've been on this forum, I've never had the impression it's elitist in the least. Many of the people who post here on a regular basis are passionate about music (piano, specifically) and invest a fair amount of their time and energy to the pursuit of it. It's not elitist to form your own opinions and discuss what you've learned from your own experiences.


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Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: philipraposo1982] #2779052
11/07/18 04:56 PM
11/07/18 04:56 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,816
Florida
cmb13 Online content
Silver Level
cmb13  Online Content
Silver Level

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,816
Florida
Originally Posted by philipraposo1982
I rarely post here and this is kind of why.

I know what I am about to say is going to trigger a bunch of you but here it goes.

Many time people on here sound very elitist. Who cares how he progressed, why he plays, if he learned theory, can he read sheet music, did he watch demos, ect..

I feel many new piano players will steer clear from this forum for this reason. Feeling like they will be critised to no end because of how they play.

I for one go by the rule that if we can't offer something constructive to say and offer feedback in a positive way then we shouldn't say anything at all.


My opinion of the forum differs. I come here for support, guidance, education, companionship (my friends and family have no interest whatsoever in this hobby), and try to offer the same when possible. It has met my expectations, and I generally don’t get involved in the tiresome debates about teacher / no teacher, etc. I hope you can get out of it what I have, which has been a tremendous amount.

My opinion on this person is who knows? With a lot of hard work, motivation, and time I’m sure one can progress very rapidly. I cannot but I’m perfectly pleased with my progress nonetheless. I’m doing better than some, not as well as others, and really don’t care. I’m noncompetitive, just doing the best I can personally.


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Chopin Nocturne 72.1
Bach Goldberg Aria
Bach WTC Prelude D min
Piazzolla Invierno Porteno
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: cmb13] #2779056
11/07/18 05:02 PM
11/07/18 05:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,817
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,817
Originally Posted by cmb13
I’m doing better than some, not as well as others, and really don’t care. I’m noncompetitive, just doing the best I can personally.

thumb thumb


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779073
11/07/18 06:18 PM
11/07/18 06:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 463
Z
Zaphod Online sad
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"It's not about comparing yourself to what someone else is today, rather, it's about comparing yourself to what you were yesterday".

Can't remember where that's from, but you get the point.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779089
11/07/18 07:08 PM
11/07/18 07:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 141
M
Michael P Walsh Offline
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Posts: 141
This guy covers it later on in the video, comparisons are futile.
His videos tend to be quite lengthy. I didn't care for his 'zen like' approach but now I'm seriously having second thoughts. I tend to make many many mistakes in playing, ridiculously frequent. He wanted me to stop thinking about playing. I didn't know how to do that, seemed impossible. Then I suddenly found myself listening to the actual sound rather than the physical activity of moving fingers. Mistakes suddenly became much less frequent. Maybe he's on to something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2enAp8px6tg

Last edited by Michael P Walsh; 11/07/18 07:09 PM.
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: Zaphod] #2779117
11/07/18 08:32 PM
11/07/18 08:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,356
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
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Posts: 1,356
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by Zaphod
"It's not about comparing yourself to what someone else is today, rather, it's about comparing yourself to what you were yesterday".

Can't remember where that's from, but you get the point.


+1 thumb


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Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779158
11/08/18 12:51 AM
11/08/18 12:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 447
Toronto, Canada
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thepianoplayer416 Offline
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Posts: 447
Toronto, Canada
Everybody has a different reason why they would pick up music and play an instrument such as reducing stress, keeping the mind healthy, etc. If we would compare ourselves to other people who are supposedly more talented than we are, then more than half the people including myself wouldn't get into playing piano in the first place. Many people who took lessons before no longer play and the piano is just sitting at home like a piece of furniture.

If somebody came up with a faster way to master advanced pieces whether by reading music, playing by ear, etc. we are all curious to find out and learn some new tricks.

Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: thepianoplayer416] #2779159
11/08/18 12:57 AM
11/08/18 12:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 910
Pacific Northwest
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PianogrlNW Online content
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Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416

If somebody came up with a faster way to master advanced pieces whether by reading music, playing by ear, etc. we are all curious to find out and learn some new tricks.

But here's the thing. There aren't any tricks. Just a lot of hard work.



Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779213
11/08/18 07:45 AM
11/08/18 07:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 58
India
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ManishP Offline
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India
That is why I never see such videos - progress of beginners! I feel I will get depressed 😀. Most will be so much better than me. And now I clicked on the link and it opened in the YouTube app. And now app will keep suggesting beginner's videos🙁.

On a serious note, this forum has been a huge help for me. My playing has become a bit better and easier because of suggestions here.


Wish I had started earlier!
Re: I don't believe this is true [Re: ZanderChicago] #2779231
11/08/18 09:07 AM
11/08/18 09:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 156
Belgium
SideShow Offline
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SideShow  Offline
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Belgium
Do you really believe this guy started at age 15 with no musical knowledge whatsoever and is playing Fantaisie-Impromptu when he is 16? (I'm just guessing his age). Come on...

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