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IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership #2777996
11/04/18 08:45 AM
11/04/18 08:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 113
P
Patrick Cox Offline OP
Full Member
Patrick Cox  Offline OP
Full Member
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 113
Hello,
I normally like to purchase Henle editions of my piano sheet music but there are times when Henle doesn't have what I am looking for so I have been considering downloading some editions from IMSLP. My question is around the Processed PDFs that IMSLP offers. Will I get better quality printing if I go with this option? Also, are there any other reasons to pay IMSLP for a membership? (Other than simply wanting to support the website.) Are some editions only available to members and if so, are these better editions?

Any input will be appreciated.

Thanks!

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Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Patrick Cox] #2778074
11/04/18 01:20 PM
11/04/18 01:20 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,097
R
Ralphiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Ralphiano  Offline
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R

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,097
I have comment on "other reasons" to join IMSLP.

I joined about a year ago to support the effort. I then discovered another wonderful reason to join. The membership included access to the NAXOS music library. It is incredible! I have spent hours and hours listening to great music there. Through NAXOS I have discovered many composers who were new to me. And, It has also revealed more beginner to intermediate level music that I had not previously found.

Recently, however, there has been a major shift in the relationship between IMSLP and NAXOS. And, to the extent I understand it, the access-via-IMSLP to the NAXOS library is substantially limited. I do not fully understand why, how, and in what ways it is limited as I did not have time to explore and research it. I just know that my most recent attempts to listen to the NAXOS library have been frustrated or severely limited.

Maybe someone else knows the details and could post them here.


Ralph

Casio Privia PX-760
Pianoteq Stage
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Patrick Cox] #2778531
11/05/18 06:32 PM
11/05/18 06:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 567
Australia
cathryn999 Online content
500 Post Club Member
cathryn999  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 567
Australia
Hi Patrick,
I'm not sure what IMSLP processed PDFs are - are they a better quality than the normal pdfs of something? I joined, and find it's a great way to explore weird and wonderful music I've never heard of or seen before, and to try before you buy (i.e. if you find something you really like, then purchase the proper manuscript). Plus I have that little sense of "doing the right thing". At $22 for a subscription compared to God knows how much for a Henle, it's probably worth signing up to find out.
cheers
Cathryn


The difference between dreams and reality is action.
Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Patrick Cox] #2778538
11/05/18 06:57 PM
11/05/18 06:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
Kitsap County, WA
squidbot Online content
Gold Subscriber
squidbot  Online Content
Gold Subscriber

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
Kitsap County, WA
The processed PDF is a mystery! I've done a little searching and I can't find any mention of what it is (this question is asked in the forums here http://imslpforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8973 but not actually answered.) I'd be curious to know what it is. Trying to read between the lines of what's said in the link, perhaps it means if there are XML engraving files available it creates the PDF from those on the fly rather than relying on whatever was uploaded, which could be a scan. But I'm just guessing, I'd love to know myself what it means.



Currently learning: Beethoven "Easy" Sonata Op 49 No 2, JS Bach WTC Prelude No 2 in C minor
Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Patrick Cox] #2778546
11/05/18 07:20 PM
11/05/18 07:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 118
Salish Sea
Qwerty53 Offline
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Qwerty53  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 118
Salish Sea
The relationship between IMSLP and Naxos appears to have changed in August. Some info here:
IMSLP Forums link re Naxos


”Mister Upright,” Yamaha YUS5.
Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Patrick Cox] #2778563
11/05/18 08:10 PM
11/05/18 08:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 113
P
Patrick Cox Offline OP
Full Member
Patrick Cox  Offline OP
Full Member
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 113
Thanks for all of the replies. I am going to try a membership and I’ll report back on the functionality.

Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Patrick Cox] #2779266
11/08/18 12:11 PM
11/08/18 12:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 273
Germany
Pianist685 Offline
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Pianist685  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 273
Germany
The pdfs on IMSLP are usually quite good. I have never heard of "processed" pdfs on IMSLP. Concerning the membership, you will get it for free after a considerable number of good uploads. For example, I got the membership for free after uploading approx. 20 good piano recordings. The Naxos music library is quite a good feature but you can find good recordings of most of the pieces on Youtube as well.

Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Pianist685] #2779474
11/09/18 05:46 AM
11/09/18 05:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 509
Europe
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arc7urus Offline
500 Post Club Member
arc7urus  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 509
Europe
Originally Posted by Pianist685
The pdfs on IMSLP are usually quite good. I have never heard of "processed" pdfs on IMSLP. Concerning the membership, you will get it for free after a considerable number of good uploads. For example, I got the membership for free after uploading approx. 20 good piano recordings. The Naxos music library is quite a good feature but you can find good recordings of most of the pieces on Youtube as well.


Hi! They are many processed PDFs on IMSLP but they are only available to members. Members can also request existing PDFs to be processed. I believe IMSLP is simply applying standard post-processing to the submitted PDFs. This includes operations like noise reduction, page crop, deskew and straighten operations. PDF post-processing may improve the quality of some scans but will often reduce the file size without degrading the quality. However, one can always post-process the public PDFs with appropriate software (that is what I do with the PDFs from IMSLP that are not straight or not correctly cropped). BTW, post-processing only makes sense if applied to scans, not to PDFs generated from electronic engraving.

Since you are a member, could you (or other IMSLP member) please download the "processed PDF" of one of the available scores and compare it to the non-processed PDF available to non-members? The following score is one of the many examples that can be used since it has a processed and non-processed version:
"Complete Score (DME) (EU) - #422093" ->
https://imslp.org/wiki/String_Quartet_No.1_in_G_major,_K.80/73f_(Mozart,_Wolfgang_Amadeus)

It would be also interesting to look into the "PDF processing log" of that score and check exactly what processing was applied to the original PDF. We are probably going to find that IMSLP is just running the original PDF through a number of open-source PDF optimization tools...

Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Patrick Cox] #2779999
11/11/18 06:31 AM
11/11/18 06:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 273
Germany
Pianist685 Offline
Full Member
Pianist685  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 273
Germany
I still do not understand. None of the pdfs on the work page you indicated is marked as "processed". When I logged in I saw exactly the same files as before. IMSLP#422093, thus, seems to be available to members and non-members, and it is unclear whether it is processed or not.

Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Pianist685] #2780154
11/11/18 04:21 PM
11/11/18 04:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 509
Europe
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arc7urus Offline
500 Post Club Member
arc7urus  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 509
Europe
Originally Posted by Pianist685
I still do not understand. None of the pdfs on the work page you indicated is marked as "processed". When I logged in I saw exactly the same files as before. IMSLP#422093, thus, seems to be available to members and non-members, and it is unclear whether it is processed or not.

Interesting. Because as non-member I see an option to download the processed version of #422093 "Complete Score (DME) (EU) (Preview)", while on the #481943 "First Version of the Trio (scan) (EU) (Preview)" that option is not there and instead I see a "Request PDF Processing" option. But I wouldn't be surprised if that functionality is not enabled on IMSLP.

Anyway, when you click on the cog wheel on the right of the IMSLP#422093 are you able to view the "PDF Processing Log"? Maybe that log will provide some clarity...

Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Patrick Cox] #2780298
11/12/18 04:45 AM
11/12/18 04:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 273
Germany
Pianist685 Offline
Full Member
Pianist685  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 273
Germany
Oh, yes, under the cog wheel there is an option to download a processed version and to view the processing log. Here is the log:

[2018-06-14 20:05:20.589697]
[2018-06-14 20:05:20.589706] Reading PDF: PMLP02660-nma_173_3_16.pdf
[2018-06-14 20:05:20.987206]
[2018-06-14 20:05:20.987230] Parsing page 1.
[2018-06-14 20:05:20.987260] Extracting images.
[2018-06-14 20:05:36.923762] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.022963] Detected page size: 5258x3862
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.023021] Detected image size: 5258x3862
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.023035] Detected image PPI: 600,600
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.023062] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43816x32183, default border = 386
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.023081] Projected image size: (5258, 3862)
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.023090] Projected page size: (5644, 4248)
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.023104]
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.023108] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.076653] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.151372] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.809084] Number of H-lines detected: 115
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.809868] Rotation (degrees): 0.357063408762
[2018-06-14 20:05:37.831103] Final page size: (5644, 4248)
[2018-06-14 20:05:38.021586]
[2018-06-14 20:05:38.021602] Writing page 1.
[2018-06-14 20:05:38.033869] Raw image size (bytes): 23975729
[2018-06-14 20:05:38.033922] Calculated PDF ppi: 513
[2018-06-14 20:05:38.033931] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.584122] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 114298
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.585308]
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.585320] Parsing page 2.
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.585359] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.693564] Detected page size: 5258x3866
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.693611] Detected image size: 5258x3866
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.693619] Detected image PPI: 600,600
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.693639] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43816x32216, default border = 386
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.693655] Projected image size: (5258, 3866)
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.693664] Projected page size: (5644, 4252)
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.693675]
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.693678] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.745886] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:05:43.822057] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:05:44.523373] Number of H-lines detected: 109
[2018-06-14 20:05:44.524074] Rotation (degrees): 0.285708118004
[2018-06-14 20:05:44.545286] Final page size: (5644, 4252)
[2018-06-14 20:05:44.545341]
[2018-06-14 20:05:44.545346] Writing page 2.
[2018-06-14 20:05:44.557034] Raw image size (bytes): 23998305
[2018-06-14 20:05:44.557084] Calculated PDF ppi: 513
[2018-06-14 20:05:44.557093] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.056424] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 83083
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.057538]
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.057550] Parsing page 3.
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.057587] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.154933] Detected page size: 5261x3859
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.154982] Detected image size: 5261x3859
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.154993] Detected image PPI: 601,600
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.155014] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43914x32158, default border = 385
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.155032] Projected image size: (5261, 3859)
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.155041] Projected page size: (5646, 4244)
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.155052]
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.155056] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.209027] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:05:50.285107] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:05:51.004912] Number of H-lines detected: 157
[2018-06-14 20:05:51.005931] No rotation (degrees): 0.120381826238
[2018-06-14 20:05:51.009896] Final page size: (5645, 4243)
[2018-06-14 20:05:51.009943]
[2018-06-14 20:05:51.009948] Writing page 3.
[2018-06-14 20:05:51.021112] Raw image size (bytes): 23951752
[2018-06-14 20:05:51.021158] Calculated PDF ppi: 513
[2018-06-14 20:05:51.021167] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.645641] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 140468
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.646862]
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.646874] Parsing page 4.
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.646911] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.749319] Detected page size: 5257x3863
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.749369] Detected image size: 5257x3863
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.749380] Detected image PPI: 601,600
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.749411] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43881x32191, default border = 386
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.749431] Projected image size: (5257, 3863)
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.749440] Projected page size: (5643, 4249)
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.749452]
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.749456] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.801159] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:05:56.875854] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:05:57.575543] Number of H-lines detected: 149
[2018-06-14 20:05:57.576569] No rotation (degrees): 0.0
[2018-06-14 20:05:57.580965] Final page size: (5643, 4249)
[2018-06-14 20:05:57.581015]
[2018-06-14 20:05:57.581021] Writing page 4.
[2018-06-14 20:05:57.591918] Raw image size (bytes): 23977124
[2018-06-14 20:05:57.591969] Calculated PDF ppi: 513
[2018-06-14 20:05:57.591978] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.040380] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 77794
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.041584]
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.041596] Parsing page 5.
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.041636] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.138985] Detected page size: 5260x3859
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.139033] Detected image size: 5260x3859
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.139052] Detected image PPI: 600,600
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.139083] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43833x32158, default border = 385
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.139113] Projected image size: (5260, 3859)
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.139131] Projected page size: (5645, 4244)
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.139148]
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.139153] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.192647] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.268750] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.931707] Number of H-lines detected: 141
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.932561] No rotation (degrees): 0.081029527714
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.936560] Final page size: (5644, 4243)
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.936609]
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.936614] Writing page 5.
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.947508] Raw image size (bytes): 23947509
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.947557] Calculated PDF ppi: 513
[2018-06-14 20:06:03.947566] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.451650] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 98950
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.452760]
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.452771] Parsing page 6.
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.452809] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.547424] Detected page size: 5254x3861
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.547472] Detected image size: 5254x3861
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.547484] Detected image PPI: 600,600
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.547505] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43783x32175, default border = 386
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.547524] Projected image size: (5254, 3861)
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.547534] Projected page size: (5640, 4247)
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.547546]
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.547550] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.599097] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:06:09.673917] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:06:10.326375] Number of H-lines detected: 161
[2018-06-14 20:06:10.349389] No rotation (degrees): 0.0306180158243
[2018-06-14 20:06:10.353544] Final page size: (5640, 4247)
[2018-06-14 20:06:10.353591]
[2018-06-14 20:06:10.353598] Writing page 6.
[2018-06-14 20:06:10.364682] Raw image size (bytes): 23953097
[2018-06-14 20:06:10.364738] Calculated PDF ppi: 512
[2018-06-14 20:06:10.364748] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:06:15.931069] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 89804
[2018-06-14 20:06:15.932312]
[2018-06-14 20:06:15.932327] Parsing page 7.
[2018-06-14 20:06:15.932367] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.031570] Detected page size: 5261x3859
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.031617] Detected image size: 5261x3859
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.031625] Detected image PPI: 601,600
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.031644] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43914x32158, default border = 385
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.031661] Projected image size: (5261, 3859)
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.031669] Projected page size: (5646, 4244)
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.031680]
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.031684] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.083694] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.158976] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.817580] Number of H-lines detected: 130
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.818385] Rotation (degrees): 0.352441664386
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.839547] Final page size: (5645, 4243)
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.839606]
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.839611] Writing page 7.
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.851661] Raw image size (bytes): 23951752
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.851714] Calculated PDF ppi: 513
[2018-06-14 20:06:16.851723] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.324320] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 87249
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.325558]
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.325575] Parsing page 8.
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.325620] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.412301] Detected page size: 5251x3861
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.412348] Detected image size: 5251x3861
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.412359] Detected image PPI: 601,601
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.412381] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43831x32228, default border = 386
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.412399] Projected image size: (5251, 3861)
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.412408] Projected page size: (5637, 4247)
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.412420]
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.412424] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.463958] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:06:22.540210] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:06:23.055465] Number of H-lines detected: 125
[2018-06-14 20:06:23.056331] No rotation (degrees): 0.0
[2018-06-14 20:06:23.060335] Final page size: (5637, 4247)
[2018-06-14 20:06:23.060385]
[2018-06-14 20:06:23.060390] Writing page 8.
[2018-06-14 20:06:23.071278] Raw image size (bytes): 23940356
[2018-06-14 20:06:23.071329] Calculated PDF ppi: 512
[2018-06-14 20:06:23.071338] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.510640] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 73918
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.511843]
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.511854] Parsing page 9.
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.511893] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.602810] Detected page size: 5258x3860
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.602857] Detected image size: 5258x3860
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.602865] Detected image PPI: 600,600
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.602885] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43816x32166, default border = 386
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.602901] Projected image size: (5258, 3860)
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.602910] Projected page size: (5644, 4246)
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.602921]
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.602925] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.655396] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:06:28.731421] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:06:29.286467] Number of H-lines detected: 121
[2018-06-14 20:06:29.287230] Rotation (degrees): 0.400332938211
[2018-06-14 20:06:29.308343] Final page size: (5644, 4246)
[2018-06-14 20:06:29.308393]
[2018-06-14 20:06:29.308399] Writing page 9.
[2018-06-14 20:06:29.320110] Raw image size (bytes): 23964441
[2018-06-14 20:06:29.320160] Calculated PDF ppi: 513
[2018-06-14 20:06:29.320169] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:06:34.904802] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 88911
[2018-06-14 20:06:34.906046]
[2018-06-14 20:06:34.906058] Parsing page 10.
[2018-06-14 20:06:34.906095] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.002737] Detected page size: 5253x3862
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.002782] Detected image size: 5253x3862
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.002791] Detected image PPI: 600,600
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.002810] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43775x32183, default border = 386
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.002828] Projected image size: (5253, 3862)
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.002837] Projected page size: (5639, 4248)
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.002848]
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.002851] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.056020] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.133958] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.776900] Number of H-lines detected: 186
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.777992] No rotation (degrees): -0.0134062549983
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.781970] Final page size: (5639, 4248)
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.782020]
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.782025] Writing page 10.
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.792885] Raw image size (bytes): 23954489
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.792935] Calculated PDF ppi: 512
[2018-06-14 20:06:35.792944] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.239821] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 87194
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.241128]
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.241144] Parsing page 11.
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.241186] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.343749] Detected page size: 5258x3859
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.343796] Detected image size: 5258x3859
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.343804] Detected image PPI: 600,600
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.343824] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43816x32158, default border = 385
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.343841] Projected image size: (5258, 3859)
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.343849] Projected page size: (5643, 4244)
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.343860]
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.343864] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.395279] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:06:41.469387] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:06:42.130572] Number of H-lines detected: 144
[2018-06-14 20:06:42.131488] Rotation (degrees): 0.41254304803
[2018-06-14 20:06:42.152543] Final page size: (5642, 4243)
[2018-06-14 20:06:42.152595]
[2018-06-14 20:06:42.152601] Writing page 11.
[2018-06-14 20:06:42.164540] Raw image size (bytes): 23939023
[2018-06-14 20:06:42.164604] Calculated PDF ppi: 512
[2018-06-14 20:06:42.164613] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.684050] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 93561
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.685244]
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.685256] Parsing page 12.
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.685293] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.778618] Detected page size: 5253x3862
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.778666] Detected image size: 5253x3862
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.778674] Detected image PPI: 600,600
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.778694] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43775x32183, default border = 386
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.778710] Projected image size: (5253, 3862)
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.778719] Projected page size: (5639, 4248)
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.778730]
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.778734] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.832114] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:06:47.907428] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:06:48.531278] Number of H-lines detected: 167
[2018-06-14 20:06:48.532276] No rotation (degrees): 0.00213316525838
[2018-06-14 20:06:48.536223] Final page size: (5639, 4248)
[2018-06-14 20:06:48.536273]
[2018-06-14 20:06:48.536277] Writing page 12.
[2018-06-14 20:06:48.546923] Raw image size (bytes): 23954489
[2018-06-14 20:06:48.546969] Calculated PDF ppi: 512
[2018-06-14 20:06:48.546978] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.027601] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 100807
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.028819]
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.028833] Parsing page 13.
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.028871] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.127348] Detected page size: 5260x3865
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.127394] Detected image size: 5260x3865
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.127403] Detected image PPI: 600,600
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.127423] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43833x32208, default border = 386
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.127439] Projected image size: (5260, 3865)
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.127448] Projected page size: (5646, 4251)
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.127459]
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.127462] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.179571] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.254900] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.927153] Number of H-lines detected: 159
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.929589] No rotation (degrees): 0.0783052508144
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.933646] Final page size: (5646, 4251)
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.933695]
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.933700] Writing page 13.
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.944925] Raw image size (bytes): 24001163
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.944976] Calculated PDF ppi: 513
[2018-06-14 20:06:54.944986] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.535122] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 100191
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.536383]
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.536394] Parsing page 14.
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.536431] Found one image.
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.633062] Detected page size: 5260x3867
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.633110] Detected image size: 5260x3867
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.633119] Detected image PPI: 600,600
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.633138] Calculated page size not within range, using default: calculated = 43833x32225, default border = 386
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.633165] Projected image size: (5260, 3867)
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.633174] Projected page size: (5646, 4253)
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.633186]
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.633189] Processing page.
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.684635] RGB image detected.
[2018-06-14 20:07:00.759552] Otsu threshold: 127.0
[2018-06-14 20:07:01.417342] Number of H-lines detected: 146
[2018-06-14 20:07:01.418272] No rotation (degrees): 0.163234398144
[2018-06-14 20:07:01.422292] Final page size: (5646, 4253)
[2018-06-14 20:07:01.422338]
[2018-06-14 20:07:01.422343] Writing page 14.
[2018-06-14 20:07:01.433223] Raw image size (bytes): 24012455
[2018-06-14 20:07:01.433266] Calculated PDF ppi: 513
[2018-06-14 20:07:01.433274] Using K-despeckle.
[2018-06-14 20:07:06.876959] Compressed PDF page size (bytes): 101214
[2018-06-14 20:07:06.879234]
[2018-06-14 20:07:06.879245] Saving PDF.
[2018-06-14 20:07:06.942104] Done, input size: 4388960, output size: 1327254.

Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Pianist685] #2780358
11/12/18 09:34 AM
11/12/18 09:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 706
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
500 Post Club Member
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 706
Originally Posted by Pianist685
Oh, yes, under the cog wheel there is an option to download a processed version and to view the processing log. Here is the log:
...
[2018-06-14 20:05:38.033931] Using K-despeckle.

Despeckling really only just gets rid of many of the random stray marks on the page. It is most useful for OCR which obviously would not apply to a score. In fact, Adobe Acrobat dropped its despeckling feature in more recent releases, probably because of this, although they have retained despeckling capability in their Photoshop product. arc7urus is probably right that one can probably do better processing even using free software that can do more stuff like skeletonization, character dilation & erosion, deskewing, background smoothing, etc. in addition to the despeckling.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Patrick Cox] #2780360
11/12/18 09:38 AM
11/12/18 09:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 509
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
500 Post Club Member
arc7urus  Offline
500 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 509
Europe
Aha! Many thanks! So, IMSLP is indeed optimizing PDFs. The post-processing that was done (at least over this file) includes:
- converting each page to gray scale
- applying "despeckle", i.e. reducing noise such as minor scratches and dust marks
- cropping, resizing and re-centering each page
- resampling each page (to 600 dpi)
- rotating each page so that the majority of the horizontal lines (i.e. the ledger lines) become horizontal

The result is that the PDF available for non-members is 4.2 MB in size while the post-processed version available to members is 1.2 MB. This is mainly because the whole file was converted to gray scale and then re-compressed. In terms of quality, the results of post-processing depend entirely on the quality of the original. There are scans submitted to IMSLP that have not been post-processed at all and/or were scanned with an unnecessarily high resolution and thus have large file sizes. Some lower quality scans have skewed and off-center pages. All of these will benefit from post-processing. But many public PDFs on IMSLP were submitted as properly post-processed versions. In this case, IMSLP's post-processing will have little or no effect. Post-processing will also not improve scores generated by electronic engraving (MuseScore, LilyPond, Finale, Notion, ...)

Anyway, the post-processing operations that IMSLP is doing are completely standard and available on plenty of commercial PDF editors (optimization is usually not available on PDF viewers). PDF optimization and post-processing can also be done using open source tools such as pdfsizeopt and ghostscript. Hope this helps shedding some light on the IMSLP post-processing mystery ;-)

Re: IMSLP Processed PDFs & Membership [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2780362
11/12/18 09:48 AM
11/12/18 09:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 509
Europe
A
arc7urus Offline
500 Post Club Member
arc7urus  Offline
500 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 509
Europe
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Pianist685
Oh, yes, under the cog wheel there is an option to download a processed version and to view the processing log. Here is the log:
...
[2018-06-14 20:05:38.033931] Using K-despeckle.

Despeckling really only just gets rid of many of the random stray marks on the page. It is most useful for OCR which obviously would not apply to a score. In fact, Adobe Acrobat dropped its despeckling feature in more recent releases, probably because of this, although they have retained despeckling capability in their Photoshop product. arc7urus is probably right that one can probably do better processing even using free software that can do more stuff like skeletonization, character dilation & erosion, deskewing, background smoothing, etc. in addition to the despeckling.


You are right. But some "bad" scans have dust marks on them. That is usually why despeckle is used but at the expense of removing detail from the page. On a music score, too much despeckle can actually remove signs such as stacatto and the dots on dotted notes (k-despeckle works by removing "isolated" dots, i.e. dots with less than k-nearest neighbors...)

As Tyrone Slothrop is saying, using a tool that can be configured by the end-user will in most cases produce better results.


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