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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: chopin_r_us] #2775841
10/27/18 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Horribly mechanical. It's obviously been rendered in a number of ways. What ever floats yer boat smile


Yeah. I think it's a nice hoax though. Now let's wait and see which artificial made piano composition is going to fool the lot of us wink


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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: Rowy van Hest] #2775843
10/27/18 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
Originally Posted by chopin_r_us
Horribly mechanical. It's obviously been rendered in a number of ways. What ever floats yer boat smile

Yeah. I think it's a nice hoax though. Now let's wait and see which artificial made piano composition is going to fool the lot of us wink

I've been impressed by the collective ability of the PW community to root out piano-playing hoaxes and fakes ever since this thread a few months ago. thumb


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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2775900
10/27/18 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by brassplyer


Clearly patience isn't in your repertoire.



I don't need patience as I am content with all my observations and I am confident that I am destined to remain so.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2775971
10/27/18 06:38 PM
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It's Lola Astanova - I believe it's the only full-length version of it she has on Youtube. After seeing prejudiced reactions to her based on factors other than her playing that I found on here in previous threads I was curious to see what the feedback would be in an anonymous setting. Some clearly have a real issue with her showing up looking like a Robert Palmer girl.

The only thing I did to it was add a touch of modeled reverb in SoundForge to give it more of a concert hall sound. The original audio has a distinctive, close-mic'd ambience that I thought might give it away if anyone was familiar with the video.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2775978
10/27/18 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by brassplyer
It's Lola Astanova - I believe it's the only full-length version of it she has on Youtube. After seeing prejudiced reactions to her based on factors other than her playing that I found on here in previous threads I was curious to see what the feedback would be in an anonymous setting. Some clearly have a real issue with her showing up looking like a Robert Palmer girl.

The only thing I did to it was add a touch of modeled reverb in SoundForge to give it more of a concert hall sound. The original audio has a distinctive, close-mic'd ambience that I thought might give it away if anyone was familiar with the video.

Lol. I posted a video of her playing La Campanella blindfolded only a few days ago. The Robert Palmer girl thing she has done to herself. A few years ago, she looked pretty wholesome if one looks for older videos of her like:

I don't think her talent has gotten any less as she's remade herself. She's just remade herself in the last 3 years or so, including with some obviously augmented parts. Her piano playing is just now viewed through a different lens than before.


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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2775981
10/27/18 07:25 PM
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Even now she is able to tone it down when she wants. Here she was at her performance of Rhapsody in Blue that won her the Emmy award just two years ago. Severely toned down and if not completely wholesome, at least just "girl next door":


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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2775989
10/27/18 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Lol. I posted a video of her playing La Campanella blindfolded only a few days ago. The Robert Palmer girl thing she has done to herself. A few years ago, she looked pretty wholesome if one looks for older videos of her like:

I saw that Don't Stop The Music video a few days ago - pretty cool.

I don't have any problem with her dolling up - she's a superb player. Of course some will turn their noses up anyway and find a reason to find fault with her. For those whose sensibilities just can't deal with it there are plenty of starched shirt and bow tie players.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2775990
10/27/18 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by brassplyer
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Lol. I posted a video of her playing La Campanella blindfolded only a few days ago. The Robert Palmer girl thing she has done to herself. A few years ago, she looked pretty wholesome if one looks for older videos of her like:

I saw that Don't Stop The Music video a few days ago - pretty cool.

I like her Gershwin Emmy performance too. It showed her playing a virtuosic piece in a serious manner, well coordinated with a professional orchestra. And of course, the pianist is the anchor for the entire piece there.

There is no question in my mind. She is a serious musician although I don't think she takes herself entirely seriously. I just think she is perhaps a shade less talented then a Yuja Wang or Khatia Buniatishvili, which probably enough that she had to change some things up to try to compete.


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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: pianoloverus] #2775991
10/27/18 08:57 PM
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I wasn't able easily to make this be played (do we need to do a download?), and so I didn't, and I'm figuring just as well, because from the discussion, it looks like I might be in danger of getting into a whoop-de-doo like on this old thread, which was quite a thing.
For any old timers here who click on that, it will probably bring back memories. ha

But just wanted to mention.....

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
The variants in the middle section were interesting but not particularly Chopinesque IMO. (I hope someone doesn't now say that are some newly discovered variants by Chopin haha.)

I learned at one of the amateur Chopin competitions in Warsaw that there is at least one variant version. As I remember, it involved some differences in both the outer sections and the middle section. If I heard the thing that was posted here, I might or might not be able to tell if it's the same as the variant that I heard; I'd probably be able to say if it probably is or isn't.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: Mark_C] #2775997
10/27/18 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
I wasn't able easily to make this be played (do we need to do a download?), and so I didn't

In the upper right you should see a downward pointing arrow with a line under it to download - click and it should bring up an applet to play or save.

Or you can just view the video on Youtube - Lola Astanova Fantaisie Impromptu.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2776001
10/27/18 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by brassplyer
....Or you can just view the video on Youtube - Lola Astanova Fantaisie Impromptu.

Thanks -- I did it that way.

First of all I don't understand the big deal about the playing -- either way.

It's good. It's not bad. But very easily arguably it's not great either.

There's nothing extraordinary about it, either badly or goodly. (Provided we're judging it on a high professional level; for an amateur it would be terrific, but, at the same time, it can rightly be criticized for lacking some aspects of Chopin playing that many consider essential.)

About this thing, which was my main interest in hearing it:

Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
The variants in the middle section were interesting but not particularly Chopinesque IMO. (I hope someone doesn't now say that are some newly discovered variants by Chopin haha.)

I learned at one of the amateur Chopin competitions in Warsaw that there is at least one variant version. As I remember, it involved some differences in both the outer sections and the middle section. If I heard the thing that was posted here, I might or might not be able to tell if it's the same as the variant that I heard; I'd probably be able to say if it probably is or isn't.

It's not the same as the variant I heard, which seemed to be some fairly-recently-discovered thing and which diverted more from the usual version. This one is far closer to it.

The only differences I heard are two things, in the middle section (as Plover indicated) -- and they're things that may well be present in some long-known edition or at least in some variant that was somewhat commonly played in "the golden age."

How I've known that: I've heard at least the first of those two thingees in some old-old recordings -- and I may at some point have seen an edition that had it; not sure about that -- and after I heard it and maybe also saw it in an edition, I played it. I've never done it that way when anyone was listening grin ....not because I think it's bad taste or anything like that but because I've never worked on it that way and, just noodling it as I've done, I haven't been able to do it particularly well. It's been just for fun.

About the second of those thingees, I can tell you this: I don't specifically remember if I ever heard anything like it in old recordings or seen it in an edition, but, in fact, in the times that I've noodled that other thingee, I've also noodled this thingee, which makes me think I probably did hear it.

I'm guessing that her way of playing those things is an old known thing although it's probably rarely done nowadays. I'd guess that if we went through old-old recordings of the piece on youtube -- y'know, like, by people like Pachmann, Godowsky. Hofmann, Lhevinne, whomever -- we'd come across a recording or two where those thingees are played that way.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: Mark_C] #2776003
10/27/18 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
....I'd guess that if we went through old-old recordings of the piece on youtube -- y'know, like, by people like Pachmann, Godowsky. Hofmann, Lhevinne, whomever -- we'd come across a recording or two where those thingees are played that way.

On my first try, I found a recording of Josef Hofmann where he does the first thingee that way (more or less; not all the notes are necessarily the same), but not the second.


Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: Mark_C] #2776020
10/28/18 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
it can rightly be criticized for lacking some aspects of Chopin playing that many consider essential.)

Clearly she's not trying to please opinionated judges at a contest who want certain hoops jumped through.

It's not a matter of her chops, she's not fluffing notes left and right like David Helfgott. She's so accurate that some in this thread were convinced it was midi. (My condolences to the hoax-sniffers cool)

I don't think there's anything she *can't* execute - sure she could do it exactly the way some particular person wants it done. They find fault because she's doing it the way she wants to do it. And apparently having a blast and looking dang fine too. smile

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2776032
10/28/18 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by brassplyer
It's Lola Astanova - I believe it's the only full-length version of it she has on Youtube. After seeing prejudiced reactions to her based on factors other than her playing that I found on here in previous threads I was curious to see what the feedback would be in an anonymous setting. Some clearly have a real issue with her showing up looking like a Robert Palmer girl.

The only thing I did to it was add a touch of modeled reverb in SoundForge to give it more of a concert hall sound. The original audio has a distinctive, close-mic'd ambience that I thought might give it away if anyone was familiar with the video.


That is a rare achievement, sounding like a midi render. Too much technique, too little musicality, like I heard Lang Lang once say.

And I still think it's a midi render, at least a part of it, or a severe edited midi recording. And if it's not, I know now not to buy something from Lola. I was wrong about one thing though. I thought that if it wasn't a midi render, the pianist must be Chinese. I saw a documentary once about young Chinese pianists who took a master class from Lang Lang and some of them sounded like machines. There was even a pianist who didn't really want to become a pianist, but his parents hoped he would become famous, and then rich. Well, it's an incentive. And I do understand, because I'm not really a pianist, more a composer. My teacher could get very frustrated, because I never played a composition in one go. I stopped to explain to him how I would have written that piece. I still don't understand what's the fun in playing something another musician wrote grin

Wait, I saw a picture of her and now I understand all the fuss. She is beautiful and looks like a popstar. Right. Note to myself: Ignore her.

Last edited by Rowy van Hest; 10/28/18 04:40 AM.

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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: Rowy van Hest] #2776047
10/28/18 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
And I still think it's a midi render

Lol....

Given the skill she's displayed over and over in her performances, I'm marveling at the mental gymnastics you're engaging in to convince yourself she'd need to fake it. grin

Quote
I still don't understand what's the fun in playing something another musician wrote grin

So you've just dismissed the entire classical music world. And apparently have no aspiration for anyone to ever perform anything you've written.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2776048
10/28/18 06:43 AM
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This just sounds utterly unremarkable to me. I can't criticise it, but I don't hear anything special either. Maybe I'll listen to it again and hear something amazing in it at some stage in the future. Sometimes it can take me a while to "get" a pianist.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2776052
10/28/18 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by brassplyer
Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
And I still think it's a midi render

Lol....

Given the skill she's displayed over and over in her performances, I'm marveling at the mental gymnastics you're engaging in to convince yourself she'd need to fake it. grin

Quote
I still don't understand what's the fun in playing something another musician wrote grin

So you've just dismissed the entire classical music world. And apparently have no aspiration for anyone to ever perform anything you've written.


I thought I was merely writing down how I felt about it. I had no idea my opinion was so important for the entire classical music world. Dear me, I hope I didn't break it.


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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: johnstaf] #2776054
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
This just sounds utterly unremarkable to me. I can't criticise it, but I don't hear anything special either. Maybe I'll listen to it again and hear something amazing in it at some stage in the future. Sometimes it can take me a while to "get" a pianist.


She wears pumps with high heels, so she must be very special.


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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: Rowy van Hest] #2776057
10/28/18 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
Originally Posted by johnstaf
This just sounds utterly unremarkable to me. I can't criticise it, but I don't hear anything special either. Maybe I'll listen to it again and hear something amazing in it at some stage in the future. Sometimes it can take me a while to "get" a pianist.


She wears pumps with high heels, so she must be very special.


Maybe that's what I should have been doing all along! grin

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: Rowy van Hest] #2776064
10/28/18 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
I was wrong about one thing though. I thought that if it wasn't a midi render, the pianist must be Chinese.

This is racism.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: Rowy van Hest] #2776067
10/28/18 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
I thought that if it wasn't a midi render, the pianist must be Chinese.


Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
I still don't understand what's the fun in playing something another musician wrote grin


Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
Wait, I saw a picture of her and now I understand all the fuss. She is beautiful and looks like a popstar. Right. Note to myself: Ignore her.


Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
She wears pumps with high heels, so she must be very special.


Now be nice.


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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: pelanglo] #2776073
10/28/18 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by pelanglo
Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
I was wrong about one thing though. I thought that if it wasn't a midi render, the pianist must be Chinese.

This is racism.


She did play fast, as in a race.


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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2776075
10/28/18 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
She wears pumps with high heels, so she must be very special.


Now be nice.
[/quote]

It's not my fault. They're all after me crazy


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Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: pelanglo] #2776095
10/28/18 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by pelanglo
Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
I was wrong about one thing though. I thought that if it wasn't a midi render, the pianist must be Chinese.

This is racism.

No, it's culturalism!

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: pelanglo] #2776097
10/28/18 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by pelanglo
Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
I was wrong about one thing though. I thought that if it wasn't a midi render, the pianist must be Chinese.

This is racism.
It may or may not be racism but it is a outdated and untrue stereotyping of Chinese pianists. There are countless Chinese pianists today who play with great musicianship as well as perfect technique.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: pianoloverus] #2776218
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by pelanglo
Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
I was wrong about one thing though. I thought that if it wasn't a midi render, the pianist must be Chinese.

This is racism.
It may or may not be racism but it is a outdated and untrue stereotyping of Chinese pianists. There are countless Chinese pianists today who play with great musicianship as well as perfect technique.

+1 thumb

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: NobleHouse] #2776251
10/28/18 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by pelanglo
Originally Posted by Rowy van Hest
I was wrong about one thing though. I thought that if it wasn't a midi render, the pianist must be Chinese.

This is racism.
It may or may not be racism but it is a outdated and untrue stereotyping of Chinese pianists. There are countless Chinese pianists today who play with great musicianship as well as perfect technique.

+1 thumb


Even 60 years ago there were great Chinese pianists such as Fou Ts'ong, although classical musicians from Asia were of course much rarer than today.

Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: johnstaf] #2776255
10/28/18 05:26 PM
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Among many others we could mention, there's also Da-Ming Zhu, who made the finals in the great field of the 1981 Cliburn competition despite having only been playing for a few years.
BTW at the time his name was given as Zhu Da Ming. We over here have never been real good at necessarily knowing what's the "first" or "last" name of Asian people, or maybe more to the point, what's the family name and what's the given name. I'm often still unsure unless it's someone I know. And even though I now know how to write his name, I couldn't swear which name is which.
(I think Zhu is the family name.)

Here he is playing a Mozart concerto, which is pretty far from any mechanical stereotype.
BTW I didn't think the post was necessarily racist. I thought it was just dumb. grin
Which doesn't mean the person who said it was dumb. At least I hope it doesn't. I've posted plenty of dumb things. ha


Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: Mark_C] #2776266
10/28/18 05:46 PM
10/28/18 05:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,973
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bennevis Online content
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bennevis  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10,973
Originally Posted by Mark_C
We over here have never been real good at necessarily knowing what's the "first" or "last" name of Asian people, or maybe more to the point, what's the family name and what's the given name. I'm often still unsure unless it's someone I know. And even though I now know how to write his name, I couldn't swear which name is which.
(I think Zhu is the family name.)

Chinese names are often written with hyphenated names which link the "first" and "second" name, therefore the remaining name is the family name. In Chinese, the family name comes before the given names, but to make it less confusing for Westerners, they often write the family name last when writing in English grin.

Incidentally, the way it's spelled is a direct transliteration of the way it's pronounced in their native language - which means that the same name (when written in Mandarin) can be spelled differently depending on whether their native language is Cantonese (or another Chinese dialect) or Mandarin, because it's pronounced differently in different dialects.

Like Yin Cheng-Zong (or Yin Chengzong), who won joint second prize in the 2nd Tchaikovsky Competition in 1962 (in which Ashkenazy shared first prize with Ogdon) - who incidentally wrote the piano part of the Yellow River Concerto. That's why the piano part is so pianistic and grateful for smaller hands - no stretches bigger than an octave thumb.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Thoughts on this Fantaisie Impromptu performance [Re: brassplyer] #2776285
10/28/18 06:37 PM
10/28/18 06:37 PM
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Posts: 477
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johnstaf Online crying
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 477
Dublin
Talking of Chinese names, I look forward to the day when Chinese pianos proudly display Chinese names instead of fake or defunct European ones. It didn't do Xiaomi or Huawei phones and computers any harm. I know that Hailun sell under their own name in some countries though. I've never seen a Yellow River piano. It might be an English language name, but it's still clearly Chinese.

Last edited by johnstaf; 10/28/18 06:41 PM.
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