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I just returned from the Shanghai Music Fair and was going over the photos I took. Some of you might be interested and I posted a first batch in the Forum Gallery.

The Shanghai Music Show was fantastic with many European manufacturers having big displays and sharing that the Chinese market has matured and become very important to them. I will try to post some more a little later.



http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/galleries/2774812.html


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Thanks for posting the pictures. I would be curious as to your thoughts on the Shanghai Music Fair.--



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A few years since I was there. I have never seen anything like it before or since.


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NobleHouse –


Shanghai Music Fair 2018 is now by far the largest tradeshow for acoustic and digital pianos in the world. Frankfurt Musik Messe, which ranked for many years as the most important place for manufacturers to meet their international audience, has dwindled and is almost of no relevance. NAMM Show is certainly interesting for US Dealers but there are new products shown in China that are not exhibited and not accessible in the US.

Here are some more photos from the show:


http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/2775119.html

If I were to give a headline to the Shanghai Show this year, it would be “Germany Resurrected”….because there are so many German brand names that seem to be taken right out of Pierce Piano Atlas. All these brands market themselves with pictures of a German factory and stunning historic pedigree – most of which is misleading. Some of these companies do a better job at posing as German, British, etc. products, others are – from the perspective of a US/ European piano professional- just very bizarre. However, the Chinese market is huge and there seems to be a place for everyone.

I was told that this year domestic Chinese customers will buy 450,000 pianos. The lion share of these sales go to a handful of large companies including Pearl River (which makes the most pianos worldwide), Yamaha, Hailun, and the Kawai piano producer Parsons. However, there were also a few smaller makes in the acoustic segment that are following the lead of manufacturers like Hailun and more recently Pearl River that are bringing European piano craftsman/ designers over to help improve their product.

There is also a ton of innovation coming to the market in China and most of it is in integrating learning technology, making things interactive, and socially connected. There were several booths showing upright pianos where the entire front panel of the piano is a screen. You can load sheet music, see your teacher’s face and hands, or use various apps to improve specific skills. It was noteworthy, based on my conversations with them, that these innovative companies have no strong drive to come to the US or European market and are content to just develop for the Chinese market.

The Chinese market seems also ripe enough to be a significant foothold for those European brands that have survived and still stand on their own. Sauter, Petrof, Fazioli, Estonia, Bluethner, Steingraeber all had very impressive and large booths (there was also Mason & Hamlin but I did not find their stand) - with 1.2 billion people the Chinese market can provide the needed sales that Europe and the US is not delivering. I talked to Mr. Paolo Fazioli who reported selling a Fazioli to a music school and Petrof placed two Antonin Petrofs at a University in Central China as well.

I was told that there are currently 30 mill Chinese kids between the ages of 6-10 taking piano lessons in China. So the pianistic future continues to be bright….

Last edited by Campanella12; 10/24/18 07:02 PM.

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Originally Posted by Campanella12
NobleHouse –


Shanghai Music Fair 2018 is now by far the largest tradeshow for acoustic and digital pianos in the world. Frankfurt Musik Messe, which ranked for many years as the most important place for manufacturers to meet their international audience, has dwindled and is almost of no relevance. NAMM Show is certainly interesting for US Dealers but there are new products shown in China that are not exhibited and not accessible in the US.

Here are some more photos from the show:


http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/2775119.html

If I were to give a headline to the Shanghai Show this year, it would be “Germany Resurrected”….because there are so many German brand names that seem to be taken right out of Pierce Piano Atlas. All these brands market themselves with pictures of a German factory and stunning historic pedigree – most of which is misleading. Some of these companies do a better job at posing as German, British, etc. products, others are – from the perspective of a US/ European piano professional- just very bizarre. However, the Chinese market is huge and there seems to be a place for everyone.

I was told that this year domestic Chinese customers will buy 450,000 pianos. The lion share of these sales go to a handful of large companies including Pearl River (which makes the most pianos worldwide), Yamaha, Hailun, and the Kawai piano producer Parsons. However, there were also a few smaller makes in the acoustic segment that are following the lead of manufacturers like Hailun and more recently Pearl River that are bringing European piano craftsman/ designers over to help improve their product.

There is also a ton of innovation coming to the market in China and most of it is in integrating learning technology, making things interactive, and socially connected. There were several booths showing upright pianos where the entire front panel of the piano is a screen. You can load sheet music, see your teacher’s face and hands, or use various apps to improve specific skills. It was noteworthy, based on my conversations with them, that these innovative companies have no strong drive to come to the US or European market and are content to just develop for the Chinese market.

The Chinese market seems also ripe enough to be a significant foothold for those European brands that have survived and still stand on their own. Sauter, Petrof, Fazioli, Estonia, Bluethner, Steingraeber all had very impressive and large booths (there was also Mason & Hamlin but I did not find their stand) - with 1.2 billion people the Chinese market can provide the needed sales that Europe and the US is not delivering. I talked to Mr. Paolo Fazioli who reported selling a Fazioli to a music school and Petrof placed two Antonin Petrofs at a University in Central China as well.

I was told that there are currently 30 mill Chinese kids between the ages of 6-10 taking piano lessons in China. So the pianistic future continues to be bright….



Fascinating perspective. THANKS!



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How many Chinese piano manufacturers are using W,N&G actions?


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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
How many Chinese piano manufacturers are using W,N&G actions?


Ed,

I would not be able to give you a competent answer on that. My guess is that most pianos in China use the traditional action. Surprisingly when it comes to piano action manufacturers there are not that many choices. I know that our Hailun factory has invested millions in machinery over the last couple of years after once finding itself on the shortened side by a supplier who we had helped finance but who had overcommitted and could not supply us with the volume we needed. I believe the other two large brand manufacturers also have shifted to producing their own actions. I would guess that only the Kawai supplier uses non-wood materials.


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I was trying to find some information about this show. Is it the same as "MusicChina" referred to here (seems likely given the dates and location) https://10times.com/music-china

Thanks for your thoughts and photos. Very interesting! I'm curious, did they have any booths or sections of the floor dedicated to music instruction technology?


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One of the pictures showed a Pleyel stand. Are they back in business? If I don't err, Pleyel closed down in 2013.


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Originally Posted by squidbot
I was trying to find some information about this show. Is it the same as "MusicChina" referred to here (seems likely given the dates and location) https://10times.com/music-china

Thanks for your thoughts and photos. Very interesting! I'm curious, did they have any booths or sections of the floor dedicated to music instruction technology?


Squidbot,

Yes, the show that I referred to as "Shanghai Music Fair" is the one in the link you provide and is formally titled Music China. There was not exactly one area for music instruction technology. There were quite a few smaller booths that offered technology for younger kids to playfully engage with rhythm and sound. This included silicon/ rubber keyboards that you can just roll up and take anywhere - and that work surprisingly well. Then there is a company that was also present last year which restructures the upright panel to be a large touch screen display along with cameras. This type of technology had spread to other manufacturers or at least was being licensed as I saw it at several booths. The instrument has two integrated cameras- one to follow your hands and another one to see your teacher, so that you can take a personal one on one lesson from the comfort of your home.

Then there were several solutions / companies to music instruction that included mobile devices- primarily iPads. Some of the ones I tried had an iPad app linked to the keyboard in a binary way (key is played- or not).Others were acoustic apps, i.e. the app "listened to you play" and could be used with any instrument. Others have intricate optical key movement measuring technology that conveys more information to the software (key speed, duration of how long a key is held,....) and where the software provides feedback in a more nuanced way. I checked out in detail three companies.

Then there were two companies that promoted their music schools. One company had developed their own methodology (learning scores), offered their own digital products and licenses their technology and methodology to piano dealers.


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Campanella12 - would you perhaps like to speculate on what the future of the digital piano might be like given the innovations that you saw?


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Originally Posted by Vuong
One of the pictures showed a Pleyel stand. Are they back in business? If I don't err, Pleyel closed down in 2013.


Vuong,

one of the pleasant surprises was a large display of Pleyel pianos. The booth itself was ornately and very nicely put together and had a full line of pianos on display including a Concert Grand. This was a strong sign that Pleyel is again active and growing stronger on the world market. The head of the Chinese Pleyel operations is also the owner of the largest and arguably best action supplier in China, LUO Orient. Whatever form this partnership takes on, the team around Luo Orient is very capable and will make a difference for the brand. You can see better pictures of their impressive booth at pleyel.com.


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Campanella12, thank you so much for your detailed reply! I might try to get to the show next year, it sounds amazing.


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The Pleyel booth displayed their older concert grand and their rare double piano.

I discussed my visit to Music China on another thread, but it seemed to have offended a venerable member of Piano World that I stated what was old news and obvious to him. My apologies to him again.

http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/galleries/2775719.html

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Originally Posted by squidbot
Campanella12, thank you so much for your detailed reply! I might try to get to the show next year, it sounds amazing.


The sound was excruciating, with literally hundreds of pianos being pounded simultaneously from all directions. Bring ear plugs.

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Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka
Originally Posted by squidbot
Campanella12, thank you so much for your detailed reply! I might try to get to the show next year, it sounds amazing.


The sound was excruciating, with literally hundreds of pianos being pounded simultaneously from all directions. Bring ear plugs.


Having been to multiple E3's and other game industry shows where every booth seems to be engaged in a war of whose sound is loudest, I think I've become immune to that type of cacophony laugh


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Hello Ken:
Again, it is still not clear whether Pleyel is back in business. Is it still a French piano maker or is it a Chinese company like some of the old German companies? If there were to be new Pleyel pianos on display at the show are they again built in France ?. Unlikely ?!?.


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The Pleyel website is still up, and saying that the factory will host high-end pianos this year. That could mean that they are sourcing them from China, particularly since the website is in French, English, or Chinese.


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Thank you. It looks like Baldwin pianos nowadays. No more Pleyel pianos made in Saint Denis. No real Pleyal at all.


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Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Campanella12 - would you perhaps like to speculate on what the future of the digital piano might be like given the innovations that you saw?


Hi Colin - I am not too good at speculating but I noticed that many of the Chinese piano learning technologies are geared at a different market than what we are used to in the US: little kids from pre-school age to early elementary. The software materials and the methodology books look very infantile and more like books trying to get toddlers to be interested in them. The Chinese mindset is to expose little kids very early to the piano. By the time these kids reach 7 and 8 they can play advanced Etudes without mistakes. And they like the acoustic piano. Based on that I think the digital piano for the Chinese market will be dominated by instruments that emulate the feel, touch, sound of the acoustic piano with limited interest in the bells and whistles that in the West have put on.

Last edited by Campanella12; 10/29/18 05:19 PM.

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