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Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 #2774198
10/20/18 11:04 PM
10/20/18 11:04 PM
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MeM Offline OP
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Hello Guys,

New member here. I would like to know if fellow P-515 owners have similar (not so good) experience about its sound via built in speakers.

After waiting for almost 2 months, I received the piano this Friday and I was so excited that I took off early from work so I could come home to put it together and start playing.

As soon as I turned it on, I realized right away that something was off as the sound, especially the low notes, was boomy and muddy, unless I played heavily. Despite the volume change, the tone was either too soft (that it didn't sound like a piano but rather a frequency made from tone generator), or too harsh (but at least it sounded more like a piano when played heavily). It just didn't sound like a piano I was used to when played normally (or not heavily).

BTW, I tend to play piano more heavily compared to other players. I am the only piano players in my church that is forced to not open the lid fully.

Interestingly, the demo songs with piano sounds sounded fantastic in all dynamics and volume settings. Playing piano with a headphone also sounded normal (actually very good). At this point, I still thought that I just needed to get used to this new piano.

Then my wife and kids came home, without me telling them my observation, they played it and complained that the sound was off and artificial. My wife even pulled me to another room and wanted me to return it and keep the old P-155 we temporarily placed in the same room, as the sound of P-515 through speakers was so off. I was convinced at this point that there was something wrong with this new piano.

I suspect probably the way the piano deals with various playing dynamics when the built in speakers are used (as using headphone doesn't have this problem) is not right. It seems to use either soft samples or harsh samples but the most pleasant and piano like samples are rarely used.I tried adjusting settings and found changing the "touch (curve)" in "piano room" from the default "median" to "soft 2" relieved most of this sound problem as I think the soft sound samples were only used when I really want to play soft.

Again, I am not usually associated as a soft player, most like the opposite.

I don't know if this is a hardware issue particularly with this piano I received or something universal that a firmware update can address. BTW, my P-515 has 1.01 firmware and Yamaha's website hasn't posted any new firmware. I also wrote a similar email to my sales representative (at Kraft) but I would like to know what you guys think.

Sorry for the long post but I appreciate all the help and I really like this piano otherwise.

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Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2774213
10/21/18 12:06 AM
10/21/18 12:06 AM
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It's highly unlikely that the piano would use different samples for the headphones.

Try moving the piano, as there could be cancellation caused by the reflection of the bass from a nearby wall, although this would also affect the demo songs.

Try doing a factory reset just in case some setting was altered wrongly at some stage.

Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2774218
10/21/18 12:28 AM
10/21/18 12:28 AM
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Also, if it's connected to a computer, make sure you have "Local Control OFF" when using MIDI software.

Other than that, if it doesn't sound as good as the demo, your dealer needs to get involved.

Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2774252
10/21/18 06:24 AM
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MeM Offline OP
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Hi John,

Thanks for the replies. I emailed my sales and I will let you guys know how this turns out.

I tried resetting to default several times while playing with the settings. It is not connected to a computer.

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Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2774278
10/21/18 08:08 AM
10/21/18 08:08 AM
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hi mem,

i have no such issues with my p515.
and i have not updated firmware.
also sounds the same as the demos!

very sorry to hear about your issues.


..... Jeff /// Yamaha P515 /// Roll Tide
Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2774286
10/21/18 09:18 AM
10/21/18 09:18 AM
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I think mine sounds normal too. Maybe you could upload a video to show what is happening?

Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2774303
10/21/18 10:16 AM
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I would be interested in seeing a video of this issue??
Also I do know placement makes a huge difference, placing a slab to close to the wall makes it sound not as good compared to placing away or facing away from the wall,


P155
Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2774370
10/21/18 03:14 PM
10/21/18 03:14 PM
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As a matter of fact P515 uses a separate binaural sample set when played through headphones. And that’s well explained in the manual. You need to enable a setting so that the stereo sample set used with speakers is also used with headphones.

Please note this isn’t simply an effect applied over the same samples to make them sound good through headphones. It’s a separate sample set recorded through dummy head microphones.


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Previously: Kawai (ES7, MP6, CA63), Roland (RD-700SX, FP-5), Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2774413
10/21/18 06:03 PM
10/21/18 06:03 PM
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Thanks for all the replies.

I will record a piece that's included in the demo along with playing the demo to show the sound of my piano when I get a chance

I also tried moving the piano further away from the wall for about a foot, definitely more than what Yamaha showed in the ads but didn't hear much improvement. It seems the default touch curve is way too hard for me and the piano thinks I am playing soft all the time with that touch setting.

I hear less of that softness with the same default touch setting via the headphone.


Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2775121
10/24/18 07:41 AM
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Just wanted to provide updates regarding this issue.

After watching more YouTube videos and talking to a few professionals, it turns out that, compared to bright sounding P-155 at home and a 9' Kawai grand I play often at church, the default CFX sound through the speakers has more layers (i.e. meaning that the same note can sound different depends on how fast the key is pushed) and depth (more lower partials). The layer part can be adjusted via touch (curve).

There is nothing wrong with these and the sound is probably more realistic. The rest of my family (and me to some extent) is just very used to P-155 (lighter touch, sound has less depth and layers) hence it probably will take a while to get used to P-515.

The sound via the headphone, especially for CFX (sampled binaurally) is a little different, and this probably has something to do with my particular headphone (Alessandro M-1). These characteristics (more layers and lower partials) are mostly true with the demo pieces, either with speakers or with headphones.

However, if I have to nitpick, there are a few notes for the CFX (currently my favorite), around C3~G3, often used for the music I play, that sound a little muddy for me. Additionally, I noticed larger gaps between E and F keys for most octaves, compared to P-155. Re-watching the demos on YouTube, I noticed the same gap (and the muddy notes as well). Being a mechanical engineer, I understand the reason for these larger gaps as I guess every F key to next E key is a sub-assembly and Yamaha needs to keep greater tolerance between these sub-assemblies to fit.

The bottom line is this P-515 is a keeper and I look forward to it serving us for another decade. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for all the helps.

Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2775130
10/24/18 08:08 AM
10/24/18 08:08 AM
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I have the p155 (mahogany) and just order p515 (black) couple days ago, should get it in second week of Nov.

How does the action feel to your p155? Also, do you like the sound more or less than p155? Are speakers big updgrade?

I 'm buying this piano blindly. as no stores have it to try, but if it is not as good as p155, i will get p255.


P155
Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2775135
10/24/18 08:23 AM
10/24/18 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MeM
New member here. I would like to know if fellow P-515 owners have similar (not so good) experience about its sound via built in speakers.

I'm still patiently waiting for a occasion to demo the unit.

Quote
After waiting for almost 2 months, I received the piano this Friday and I was so excited that I took off early from work so I could come home to put it together and start playing.

As soon as I turned it on, I realized right away that something was off as the sound, especially the low notes, was boomy and muddy, unless I played heavily. Despite the volume change, the tone was either too soft (that it didn't sound like a piano but rather a frequency made from tone generator), or too harsh (but at least it sounded more like a piano when played heavily). It just didn't sound like a piano I was used to when played normally (or not heavily).

So you ordered blind and got something not meeting your expectations? Yes, that happens and is the main reason why stores offer return policies.

Also video advertisements (often named "tests" or "reviews") are not good for assessing piano sound, because they just pick up the sound through the line outputs, and the instruments are played fast and loud with non-classical repertoire.


Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7605
Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2775137
10/24/18 08:29 AM
10/24/18 08:29 AM
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Hello Joe and JiTin,

Yes, I ordered P-515 blind, having experience with digitals mostly from playing P-155, two generation behind P-515. As I wrote two posts ago, I am now thinking the P-515 is vastly different than P-155 (in a good way) and so far it is meeting my expectation. It just needs some time to fully get used, as you would with any new instrument.

The action, compared to P-155, is slightly heavier, but not so different.

Let me know if you have further questions I can help.

Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2775142
10/24/18 08:46 AM
10/24/18 08:46 AM
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would you rank it superior to p155?

The reviews say it is best one yet, in tone, speakers, action and user interfacwe.


P155
Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2775162
10/24/18 09:33 AM
10/24/18 09:33 AM
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I am not professional but as a casual player for entertainment, for church services, and it being a tool to train the rest of the family to play piano and enjoy music, I think P-515 is superior to P-155.

One professional I talked to said, it is like comparing computer (or any electronics) today to those a decade ago that is positioned similarly in the market. You will for sure see progress. I think you will like it. To be safe, you can also try CLP-645 which is probably 90% the same as P-515 to be sure before placing order.

Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2785940
11/29/18 09:05 AM
11/29/18 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MeM
Hello Guys,

New member here. I would like to know if fellow P-515 owners have similar (not so good) experience about its sound via built in speakers.

After waiting for almost 2 months, I received the piano this Friday and I was so excited that I took off early from work so I could come home to put it together and start playing.

As soon as I turned it on, I realized right away that something was off as the sound, especially the low notes, was boomy and muddy, unless I played heavily. Despite the volume change, the tone was either too soft (that it didn't sound like a piano but rather a frequency made from tone generator), or too harsh (but at least it sounded more like a piano when played heavily). It just didn't sound like a piano I was used to when played normally (or not heavily).

BTW, I tend to play piano more heavily compared to other players. I am the only piano players in my church that is forced to not open the lid fully.

Interestingly, the demo songs with piano sounds sounded fantastic in all dynamics and volume settings. Playing piano with a headphone also sounded normal (actually very good). At this point, I still thought that I just needed to get used to this new piano.

Then my wife and kids came home, without me telling them my observation, they played it and complained that the sound was off and artificial. My wife even pulled me to another room and wanted me to return it and keep the old P-155 we temporarily placed in the same room, as the sound of P-515 through speakers was so off. I was convinced at this point that there was something wrong with this new piano.

I suspect probably the way the piano deals with various playing dynamics when the built in speakers are used (as using headphone doesn't have this problem) is not right. It seems to use either soft samples or harsh samples but the most pleasant and piano like samples are rarely used.I tried adjusting settings and found changing the "touch (curve)" in "piano room" from the default "median" to "soft 2" relieved most of this sound problem as I think the soft sound samples were only used when I really want to play soft.

Again, I am not usually associated as a soft player, most like the opposite.

I don't know if this is a hardware issue particularly with this piano I received or something universal that a firmware update can address. BTW, my P-515 has 1.01 firmware and Yamaha's website hasn't posted any new firmware. I also wrote a similar email to my sales representative (at Kraft) but I would like to know what you guys think.

Sorry for the long post but I appreciate all the help and I really like this piano otherwise.




did you try changing the equalizer settings , try boosting the mids to 4, highs to two, and maybe lowering the lows to -2, and if that doesn't work change boost setting to on and type 1 or 3..
Let me know if that works for you.


P155
Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2785994
11/29/18 11:12 AM
11/29/18 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MeM
Hello Guys,

New member here. I would like to know if fellow P-515 owners have similar (not so good) experience about its sound via built in speakers.


As soon as I turned it on, I realized right away that something was off as the sound, especially the low notes, was boomy and muddy, unless I played heavily. Despite the volume change, the tone was either too soft (that it didn't sound like a piano but rather a frequency made from tone generator), or too harsh (but at least it sounded more like a piano when played heavily). It just didn't sound like a piano I was used to when played normally (or not heavily).




Hello and welcome, MeM
This issue has been discussed before.
I have the same problem with my P-515, some notes on the bass sounding, as you say, muddy and very resonant. They stand out from the others. We came to the conclusion that it must be some kind of resonance inside the machine. Some other people posted having the same problem. We hoped for a firmware actualization to solve it (though I'm not sure).
I do not tend to play heavily. Rather on the contrary. Therefore the issue is of some importance for me. I try to not forget it, and play those notes more softly.
And I agree with you: with headphones the problem is gone. We thought that it is probably due to the binaural sampling being in fact a different sound. It IS listed in the manual as a different sound.
The problem affects the piano voices, but even then, not all. For example Honky Tonk Pf sound is ok. I will let the experts theorize about it. Meanwhile, I agree we can't play everything with that voice!

Other than that I am quite happy with the piano. I find the sound beautiful enough, and every other function works ok.

Last edited by mydp; 11/29/18 11:18 AM.
Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2786001
11/29/18 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MeM
I am not professional but as a casual player for entertainment, for church services, and it being a tool to train the rest of the family to play piano and enjoy music, I think P-515 is superior to P-155.

One professional I talked to said, it is like comparing computer (or any electronics) today to those a decade ago that is positioned similarly in the market. You will for sure see progress. I think you will like it. To be safe, you can also try CLP-645 which is probably 90% the same as P-515 to be sure before placing order.


Actually, the other day I had the opportunity to try at ease a Clavinova CLP-230. It must be some 10 years old, which obviously must be taken into consideration, but I found both the sound and the action of the P-515 far superior. I guess (or maybe just hope) there has been some progress in the last ten years.

Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2786046
11/29/18 01:33 PM
11/29/18 01:33 PM
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This piano may well benefit from the addition of Pianoteq with it's infinitely variable velocity curve and equaliser.. . . .or other virtual piano similarly endowed. Some digitals have old fashioned slide controls to deal with this. Roland FP90 and 60, for ex.


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Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: peterws] #2786053
11/29/18 01:54 PM
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Peter, what kind of OS and computer specs do you have to avoid latency? and hard drive type?


P155
Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2801302
01/12/19 03:11 PM
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I think I figured this one out, I had the same experience and it drove me crazy!

Try changing Voice Edit > Touch Sensitivity to 100 (on all Voices!!). The default 64 sounds anemic and horrible, for some reason honky tonk is the least affected at 64, but even on that one changing to 100 makes a huge difference!

Also playing with the Volume within the Function menu can help as well, but touch sensitivity seems to be the #1 offender!

I've also learned that the midi output is very weird, with Note On peaking at 64 (instead of 127) and Note Off taking the 65-127 range. In Logic this can be addressed with the midi Velocity Processing plugin, but the out of the box settings are extremely weird / suboptimal!

Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: kensdavid] #2801332
01/12/19 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kensdavid
I've also learned that the midi output is very weird, with Note On peaking at 64 (instead of 127) and Note Off taking the 65-127 range. In Logic this can be addressed with the midi Velocity Processing plugin, but the out of the box settings are extremely weird / suboptimal!

Can someone reproduce this? This is clearly a defect.


Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7605
Re: Yamaha P-515 sound, firmware 1.01 [Re: MeM] #2801427
01/12/19 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeT

Can someone reproduce this? This is clearly a defect.

I just tried reproducing and wound up getting higher than 64, using midi monitor looks more like a 90ish limit.

Cross posting from another thread:
Here's a screen grab of the P515 in Logic (seems to go up to around 80 today, single notes top out around 100): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BJfto21fc0

Here's the P515 recording midi notes directly with Midi Monitor - shows that banging as hard as I can does not produce values over 90! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFJ1ANpO21g

Here's a Nektar Impact GX61 midi controller - very easy to get low values and high values (but impossible to get nuanced control): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Pf37B5nUw

Quick updates:
Just did Factory Reset - no change.
Just tried Fixed Velocity on the keyboard settings - this does indeed allow fixed values from the keyboard up to 127 to be sent to Midi Monitor (with 64 sent as Note Off).
Given that the velocity does change in response to that setting I tried all the options from Soft2->Medium->Hard 2 - In all cases the highest Note On value I ever achieved was 100 - literally once, the rest of the time low 90's was the highest...



(Trying to work through this on the forums at http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ity-just-not-cutting-it.html#Post2801416)

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