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Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? #2765366
09/14/18 12:59 AM
09/14/18 12:59 AM
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SiFi Offline OP
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???


SRF
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Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: SiFi] #2765403
09/14/18 08:15 AM
09/14/18 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by SiFi
???

I think you already known that I did - about six years ago. Used the Harold Bauer edition - which made the piece a bit more accessible in terms of distribution of notes between the hands.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: SiFi] #2765518
09/14/18 04:53 PM
09/14/18 04:53 PM
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MathGuy Offline
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C'mon, SiFi, I've only just recovered from your Who Can Play Los Requiebros thread. :-)

Jim

Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: SiFi] #2765555
09/14/18 06:50 PM
09/14/18 06:50 PM
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I played it as a junior in college. It's an uncomfortable piece, but totally doable. Try carefully controlling the elbow's motion to make it as small and contained as possible.

Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: SiFi] #2765674
09/15/18 02:08 PM
09/15/18 02:08 PM
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I also played it in my early college days. It is tiring! Quite a workout for the right thumb (I just played through the first section just now). But I love the middle intermezzo.


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Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: SiFi] #2765691
09/15/18 03:42 PM
09/15/18 03:42 PM
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Does it count if I play all of them? If you want some real fun, try that Fantasie in C major...


Last edited by Auntie Lynn; 09/15/18 03:43 PM.
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: Carey] #2766224
09/18/18 09:48 AM
09/18/18 09:48 AM
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SiFi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by SiFi
???

I think you already known that I did - about six years ago. Used the Harold Bauer edition - which made the piece a bit more accessible in terms of distribution of notes between the hands.

You're right; I did know and I remember you posted a rather good recording of it. Reason I asked the question is that I went back to the drawing board and completely re-fingered the entire piece so as to use different fingers on the same notes and adjacent notes where possible (instead of lazily using the thumb for pretty much everything like I used to!). I also remember you mentioning the Harold Bauer edition, which I'm going to look for on imslp. However, now that I've taken the trouble to work out my own fingering, I think I'm going to stick with that for now.

Would you mind re-posting your recording so we can all hear how it's supposed to go? I was planning on uploading a version once I've got it securely up to half tempo(!), kind of like I did with Requiebros. ha (ironic laugh) Part of the purpose is to get a handle on the highly specific technical challenges posed by this piece and by the seemingly outrageous MM half note = 92 marking.


SRF
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: MathGuy] #2766229
09/18/18 10:26 AM
09/18/18 10:26 AM
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SiFi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MathGuy
C'mon, SiFi, I've only just recovered from your Who Can Play Los Requiebros thread. :-)


wink wink thumb


SRF
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: jeffreyjones] #2766231
09/18/18 10:31 AM
09/18/18 10:31 AM
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SiFi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by jeffreyjones
I played it as a junior in college. It's an uncomfortable piece, but totally doable. Try carefully controlling the elbow's motion to make it as small and contained as possible.

Not sure about the "totally" part! Thanks for the technical tip. Control is one of the things that made me go back to this piece. I think there are some general technical benefits to be gained from playing the piece with proper finger action and overall economy of motion.


SRF
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: BeeZee4] #2766233
09/18/18 10:35 AM
09/18/18 10:35 AM
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SiFi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BeeZee4
I also played it in my early college days. It is tiring! Quite a workout for the right thumb (I just played through the first section just now). But I love the middle intermezzo.

So my fingerings are mostly an attempt to "normalize" the function of the thumb in executing the figuration so as to make the melodic elements (voicing) and the repetitions work as they are supposed to in performance. I totally agree about the middle section. Totally Schumann the poet!


SRF
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: Auntie Lynn] #2766234
09/18/18 10:38 AM
09/18/18 10:38 AM
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SiFi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Auntie Lynn
Does it count if I play all of them? If you want some real fun, try that Fantasie in C major...


Indeed it does!! I'd love to hear how you play this one. I'm planning on learning 1 (done), 2 (in progress), 6 (almost done), and 8 (just starting) to have as my "Schumann selection".


SRF
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: SiFi] #2766239
09/18/18 11:04 AM
09/18/18 11:04 AM
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Hi, SiFi! Your query sends me back about 30 years or so ago, when I was exploring Schumann a little more closely than I ever had previously. And I recall perpetually "running out of gas" trying to negotiate the first section -- the way I was approaching it, my wrists and fingers would simply cramp up under its unceasing demands, and I eventually gave up trying to play it. I really love the sweep and drama of the piece -- it's just vintage Schumann in the best sense -- and so I regarded it as just a shame that I really couldn't do it justice. Many years later, though, I developed sufficient technique and strength to take on the Phantasie (an indirect consequence of the Amateur Piano Competitions, incidentally), along with Noveletten 5 and 6 and Kreisleriana, and so -- hmmm -- maybe I'll give it another look-see, to determine whether it is still as unapproachable as it was then. Stay tuned!

Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: SiFi] #2766254
09/18/18 12:12 PM
09/18/18 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SiFi
Originally Posted by Carey
I think you already known that I did - about six years ago. Used the Harold Bauer edition - which made the piece a bit more accessible in terms of distribution of notes between the hands.
You're right; I did know and I remember you posted a rather good recording of it. Reason I asked the question is that I went back to the drawing board and completely re-fingered the entire piece so as to use different fingers on the same notes and adjacent notes where possible (instead of lazily using the thumb for pretty much everything like I used to!). I also remember you mentioning the Harold Bauer edition, which I'm going to look for on imslp. However, now that I've taken the trouble to work out my own fingering, I think I'm going to stick with that for now.
Would you mind re-posting your recording so we can all hear how it's supposed to go? I was planning on uploading a version once I've got it securely up to half tempo(!), kind of like I did with Requiebros. ha (ironic laugh) Part of the purpose is to get a handle on the highly specific technical challenges posed by this piece and by the seemingly outrageous MM half note = 92 marking.

Here's the link. Recorded seven years ago. Ain't perfect, but it was steady (ha ha)

https://youtu.be/gJ8XpXLcdxg

I recall that we discussed this two years ago when you first raised the "fingering" question. Glad you are still plugging away at it. The distribution of notes between hands is key.

You won't find the Bauer (Schirmer) edition of the Novelletten on IMSLP, but you can order a USED copy of it on Amazon from $3.99 to $20.00. Of course, I purchased it NEW for a whopping $1.75 back in the early 1970s. smile

Cheers !!

Last edited by Carey; 09/18/18 12:15 PM.

Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: Carey] #2773982
10/20/18 01:46 AM
10/20/18 01:46 AM
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Washington, DC
SiFi Offline OP
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Carey, as you know, I got the Bauer edition and I have studied it carefully. It's a fascinating example of how the piano music of a "not quite a pianist" can be reconfigured. Anyway, I have some iPhone recordings with close-ups of how I ended up executing the fast section. I'll try to upload them tomorrow. In the the meantime, I would just note that this is a fascinating piece and the technical elements are a huge part of why it is so interesting.


SRF
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: Tim Adrianson] #2773983
10/20/18 01:52 AM
10/20/18 01:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,787
Washington, DC
SiFi Offline OP
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SiFi  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Tim Adrianson
Hi, SiFi! Your query sends me back about 30 years or so ago, when I was exploring Schumann a little more closely than I ever had previously. And I recall perpetually "running out of gas" trying to negotiate the first section -- the way I was approaching it, my wrists and fingers would simply cramp up under its unceasing demands, and I eventually gave up trying to play it. I really love the sweep and drama of the piece -- it's just vintage Schumann in the best sense -- and so I regarded it as just a shame that I really couldn't do it justice. Many years later, though, I developed sufficient technique and strength to take on the Phantasie (an indirect consequence of the Amateur Piano Competitions, incidentally), along with Noveletten 5 and 6 and Kreisleriana, and so -- hmmm -- maybe I'll give it another look-see, to determine whether it is still as unapproachable as it was then. Stay tuned!

Tim, for what it's worth, I fingered virtually every note of the A/A' sections to get different fingers on the repetitions and "melodic" elements where possible. With the fingering and lots of slow practice, I can now frolic through those sections without fatigue or tension. It's still a bear, of course, but a bear without as big of a headache.


SRF
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: Carey] #2773987
10/20/18 02:15 AM
10/20/18 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by SiFi
Originally Posted by Carey
I think you already known that I did - about six years ago. Used the Harold Bauer edition - which made the piece a bit more accessible in terms of distribution of notes between the hands.
You're right; I did know and I remember you posted a rather good recording of it. Reason I asked the question is that I went back to the drawing board and completely re-fingered the entire piece so as to use different fingers on the same notes and adjacent notes where possible (instead of lazily using the thumb for pretty much everything like I used to!). I also remember you mentioning the Harold Bauer edition, which I'm going to look for on imslp. However, now that I've taken the trouble to work out my own fingering, I think I'm going to stick with that for now.
Would you mind re-posting your recording so we can all hear how it's supposed to go? I was planning on uploading a version once I've got it securely up to half tempo(!), kind of like I did with Requiebros. ha (ironic laugh) Part of the purpose is to get a handle on the highly specific technical challenges posed by this piece and by the seemingly outrageous MM half note = 92 marking.

Here's the link. Recorded seven years ago. Ain't perfect, but it was steady (ha ha)

https://youtu.be/gJ8XpXLcdxg

I recall that we discussed this two years ago when you first raised the "fingering" question. Glad you are still plugging away at it. The distribution of notes between hands is key.

You won't find the Bauer (Schirmer) edition of the Novelletten on IMSLP, but you can order a USED copy of it on Amazon from $3.99 to $20.00. Of course, I purchased it NEW for a whopping $1.75 back in the early 1970s. smile

Cheers !!


I see that you recorded this on a Mason & Hamlin, which is appropriate for a Bauer edition, as that is what he played. Many years ago I tuned a BB for one of his students, who was in her late nineties. She would sit down and test it with Schumann's Toccata, undoubtedly with Bauer's untangling.

I was introduced to the Schumann Novelettes through Beveridge Webster's recording, on YouTube here. A fine performance!


Semipro Tech
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: BDB] #2773989
10/20/18 02:50 AM
10/20/18 02:50 AM
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Phoenix, Arizona
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Originally Posted by BDB
Originally Posted by Carey
I think you already known that I did - about six years ago. Used the Harold Bauer edition - which made the piece a bit more accessible in terms of distribution of notes between the hands......Here's the link. Recorded seven years ago. Ain't perfect, but it was steady (ha ha)
https://youtu.be/gJ8XpXLcdxg

I see that you recorded this on a Mason & Hamlin, which is appropriate for a Bauer edition, as that is what he played. Many years ago I tuned a BB for one of his students, who was in her late nineties. She would sit down and test it with Schumann's Toccata, undoubtedly with Bauer's untangling. I was introduced to the Schumann Novelettes through Beveridge Webster's recording, on YouTube here. A fine performance!
I honestly don't know if there is a published edition of the Toccata with Bauer's untangling, but in looking for it online I discovered THIS duo-art recording Bauer made of Toccata in 1922. Impressive that his former student could play the piece in her late 90s.
https://youtu.be/dFeCr--GSSo
I've owned the Beveridge Webster LP of the Noveletten since 1966 - and have listened to it A LOT over the years. A fine and inspirational performance indeed - and it was recorded on a Baldwin !! (I also see that I left a comment on the youtube video a year ago.)


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: Carey] #2773990
10/20/18 03:07 AM
10/20/18 03:07 AM
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Schirmer's published Bauer's edition of the Toccata, but it is out of print now.


Semipro Tech
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: BDB] #2774044
10/20/18 10:53 AM
10/20/18 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BDB
Schirmer's published Bauer's edition of the Toccata, but it is out of print now.
No only is it out of print, but (unlike the Bauer edition of the Noveletten) used copies of the Toccata can't be found on-line - which is unusual. Folks must be hoarding the few copies that still exist..


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Who Can Play Schumann's 2nd Novelette? [Re: Carey] #2774058
10/20/18 11:49 AM
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There were a couple of copies on Amazon when I looked.


Semipro Tech
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