2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
30 members (Bluthendorfer, BachToTheFuture, Alex C, Bill SF Bay, Animisha, AndrewJCW, Carey, 7 invisible), 494 guests, and 576 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
David-G #2772857 10/15/18 08:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 832
Z
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 832
Originally Posted by David-G
An extraordinary amount of anti-Schiff sentiment in this thread.


It's only anti his personality, not his piano playing, which is the important thing.

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
Zaphod #2772939 10/16/18 06:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 659
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 659
Originally Posted by Zaphod
Originally Posted by David-G
An extraordinary amount of anti-Schiff sentiment in this thread.


It's only anti his personality, not his piano playing, which is the important thing.


Actually if we were genuinely interested in the music we wouldn't comment on his personality. To describe it as "only anti-personality" could be a cover for many sins.

For example, I checked to see if he was Jewish. Being a good pianist doesn't make him immune to rudeness or incapable of being rude, but then, neither does being bad, which compared to him I'm sure many of us are.

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
slipperykeys #2773010 10/16/18 10:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 832
Z
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 832
Originally Posted by slipperykeys
Originally Posted by Zaphod
Originally Posted by David-G
An extraordinary amount of anti-Schiff sentiment in this thread.


It's only anti his personality, not his piano playing, which is the important thing.


Actually if we were genuinely interested in the music we wouldn't comment on his personality. To describe it as "only anti-personality" could be a cover for many sins.

For example, I checked to see if he was Jewish. Being a good pianist doesn't make him immune to rudeness or incapable of being rude, but then, neither does being bad, which compared to him I'm sure many of us are.


I would agree in general, however the discussion on this thread appears to be more about the interaction between him and the audience i.e. his personality, than the actual performance itself.

I don't think personality much matters when judging someone's actual piano playing,

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
wr #2773014 10/16/18 11:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,268
J
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,268
Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by prout


Quote
As far as the perfume thing is concerned, I'm not sure where I stand on that. It raises the question, what is a heavy scent? For example if I had a shower with some scented soap? Or is it actually that some scents contain chemicals that some people are allergic to? Not being a particular scent-wearer, I wouldn't know.
Why should anyone use scented soaps, deodorants and shampoos and such-like products. They are all available now in unscented versions and do the same job. The scent has no function. This is not 17th C France where bathing was costly, not available to most people, and where there was a widespread belief that immersion in warm water was bad for you.


For some people, soaps with scent have a function with some similarity to the function of music - it's a matter of esthetic appreciation. I'm thinking quite a lot of people must think that way, since the range of scented soaps is vast. Many such soaps, perhaps most, don't really have much of a scent that lingers on the skin in any noticeable way. The idea is to make bathing pleasant, I think. It's not necessarily about leaving a strong scent after the bath (which might interfere with other scents the person might want to apply later), although there are some that actually are designed to do that.

On a related tangent - years ago Stephen Hough had an active blog at a Brit newspaper site, and I was somewhat surprised to learn from his entries there that he was very much into the world of perfumes and scents, and loved to talk about them. Thinking more about it, I don't know why that would be surprising to me, but it was.


Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
At least it wasn't snoring - a common problem at many opera performances. Nothing like watching Kundry sing in Parsifal, accompanied by a sonority of someone sawing wood - at the Met, no less! shocked


I think I've found the connection here. The performer whose concert gets coughed at by the cougher would be the coughee. The concern with fragrance would be for those audience members who wake up and smell the coughee.... ;-)


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
JohnSprung #2773037 10/16/18 12:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,118
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,118
Originally Posted by JohnSprung
I think I've found the connection here. The performer whose concert gets coughed at by the cougher would be the coughee. The concern with fragrance would be for those audience members who wake up and smell the coughee.... ;-)


Groan. Chuckling softly.


Best regards,

Deborah
Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
gooddog #2773160 10/16/18 06:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,606
D
David-G Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,606
Originally Posted by gooddog
Originally Posted by JohnSprung
I think I've found the connection here. The performer whose concert gets coughed at by the cougher would be the coughee. The concern with fragrance would be for those audience members who wake up and smell the coughee.... ;-)


Groan. Chuckling softly.

!!

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
JohnSprung #2773165 10/16/18 06:37 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,606
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,606
Originally Posted by JohnSprung
[quote=wr][quote=prout]

[quote][...]
I think I've found the connection here. The performer whose concert gets coughed at by the cougher would be the coughee. The concern with fragrance would be for those audience members who wake up and smell the coughee.... ;-)


With all due respect, I don't think that the coughee is someone I would care to smell, thanks all the same! smile

Cheers


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
David-G #2773439 10/17/18 07:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,710
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,710
How did he know who coughed?

Last edited by johnstaf; 10/17/18 07:36 PM.
Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
David-G #2773445 10/17/18 07:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 892
N
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 892
I think the NYC concert coughers are almost bad enough to turn a lifelong Democrat into a Republican.

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
pianoloverus #2773468 10/17/18 10:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,710
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,710
Originally Posted by pianoloverus


I think Schiff is a terrific pianist but in master classes he can be quite cruel. I have observed this in person at least twice.



That's disappointing to hear. I've only seen his master classes online and he came across as lovely. What a shame.

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
David-G #2773482 10/17/18 11:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,710
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,710

Is this the concert?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0000p44

It's only available for a few weeks online.

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
David-G #2773534 10/18/18 06:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,531
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,531
At least the Schiff incident didn't end in a brawl, like this here yesterday in Sweden:

https://www.thelocal.se/20181017/fist-fight-breaks-during-mahlers-fifth-in-malmo


Kawai Novus NV10
My amateur piano recordings on YouTube
Latest Recording: "Prélude (Opus 28, No. 4)" by Frédéric Chopin
Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
David-G #2773553 10/18/18 07:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 368
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 368
Wearing a fragrance isn't essential. Neither is attending a concert or eating at a restauarant. If fragrances bother a person or even provoke allergies I would advise that person to not attend events where an interaction might occur.

Obviously this is a different matter in places where compulsory attendance might be necessary: schools, colleges, hospitals, courtrooms etc. In these cases it is probably more considerate for everyone to minimise the use of fragrances.

Schiff is an ill mannered fool. He nor could the OP possibly be 100% certain of the need or otherwise for the cough so the human being should always be given the benefit of the doubt rather than being publicly shamed by an egomaniac who seems to think he is a gift from god.

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
johnstaf #2774032 10/20/18 09:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 659
S
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 659
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by pianoloverus


I think Schiff is a terrific pianist but in master classes he can be quite cruel. I have observed this in person at least twice.



That's disappointing to hear. I've only seen his master classes online and he came across as lovely. What a shame.



In this sort of instance it is probably best to go with your experience of an individual, rather than an anonymous posting on an internet forum.

I have observed this in person at least twice.....

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
slipperykeys #2774157 10/20/18 07:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,710
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,710
Originally Posted by slipperykeys
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by pianoloverus


I think Schiff is a terrific pianist but in master classes he can be quite cruel. I have observed this in person at least twice.



That's disappointing to hear. I've only seen his master classes online and he came across as lovely. What a shame.



In this sort of instance it is probably best to go with your experience of an individual, rather than an anonymous posting on an internet forum.

I have observed this in person at least twice.....


Fair point.

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
David-G #2774162 10/20/18 08:20 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 200
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 200
Schiff is a superb pianist and scholarly musician and has my upmost respect an admiration. I've highly enjoyed his WTC for decades among others. His masterclasses on youtube seem benign enough and he tends to speaks slowly and deliberately during interviews whether in English or German. This incident is of little import and his respect by the public at large and colleagues are what truly represent this master.

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
kbrod1 #2774167 10/20/18 08:31 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,915
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,915
Originally Posted by kbrod1
Schiff is a superb pianist and scholarly musician and has my upmost respect an admiration. I've highly enjoyed his WTC for decades among others. His masterclasses on youtube seem benign enough and he tends to speaks slowly and deliberately during interviews whether in English or German. This incident is of little import and his respect by the public at large and colleagues are what truly represent this master.
I agree Schiff is a terrific pianist but don't you think in a masterclass that's being filmed he might act differently than a non filmed masterclass? I found his masterclass behavior so extreme that for quite a while I couldn't listen to his playing objectively. IMO major ridiculing of a student in public is not excusable no matter how great the teacher is.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 10/20/18 08:37 PM.
Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
David-G #2774186 10/20/18 10:04 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 200
K
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
K
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 200
I remember reading that Cortot was very strict and condescending with students. Ironically he too is a pianist I highly admire, perhaps my all around favorite. He said something to the effect of music is a temple and only the chosen few are allowed to enter. Maybe with the constant applause, doting and idolation they become narcissistic in their behavior. Then again some people are malignant narcissists and think they know more than anybody and have done more than anybody ......

Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
pianoloverus #2774197 10/20/18 11:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,227
P
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,227
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by kbrod1
Schiff is a superb pianist and scholarly musician and has my upmost respect an admiration. I've highly enjoyed his WTC for decades among others. His masterclasses on youtube seem benign enough and he tends to speaks slowly and deliberately during interviews whether in English or German. This incident is of little import and his respect by the public at large and colleagues are what truly represent this master.
I agree Schiff is a terrific pianist but don't you think in a masterclass that's being filmed he might act differently than a non filmed masterclass? I found his masterclass behavior so extreme that for quite a while I couldn't listen to his playing objectively. IMO major ridiculing of a student in public is not excusable no matter how great the teacher is.

Totally agree. I observed a masterclass, not Schiff, but another big name completely humiliate an undergraduate music major. He asked her if she could even count to 4. I wonder now if she has anything to do with piano. This approach is so mean-spirited compared to another master class with Andre Watts who was so supportive.



Re: A cougher put in his place - an extraordinary vignette
PianogrlNW #2774219 10/21/18 12:29 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,606
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,606
Originally Posted by PianogrlNW
[...]
Totally agree. I observed a masterclass, not Schiff, but another big name completely humiliate an undergraduate music major. He asked her if she could even count to 4. I wonder now if she has anything to do with piano. This approach is so mean-spirited compared to another master class with Andre Watts who was so supportive.


A friend of mine reports that she attended a master class by an internationally acclaimed pianist who so humiliated a student with severe criticism ending with the crass remark: "Why are you even playing the piano?" that the student left the stage in tears, and my friend has lost a great deal of the respect she had had for this artist. My friend, not a pianist but a long-time music aficionado, thought that the student was a fine performer and did not deserve the disrespect she got.

Yes, this artist is a highly respected musician, but such insensitivity so publicly displayed makes one wonder why such a person even gives master classes.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2021 Free Newsletter for piano lovers is here now...
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Funny Yamaha promotional booklet
by Sonepica - 01/23/21 12:56 AM
Replacement for Kawai MP11?
by Dan Clark - 01/22/21 09:04 PM
How to sound like Scriabin
by pianoloverus - 01/22/21 08:10 PM
Most realistic Piano VST?
by Rickdiculous - 01/22/21 06:13 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,476
Posts3,050,341
Members100,180
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4