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Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: violarules] #2772230
10/13/18 06:24 PM
10/13/18 06:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,666
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
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NobleHouse  Online Content
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by violarules
I know Keith K. probably won't post this here to "toot his own horn", so I will have to. This rebuilt Steinway C from Piano Craft popped up on my facebook feed. Holy cow, it sounds fantastic. I think it might be the same instrument they were in the process of rebuilding last Summer when I visited them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyj...8hGZWCdxrygiwlhigr8O80DiSls1Q68Ot8Zg9cxs


It REALLY does sound fantastic!


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Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: NobleHouse] #2772239
10/13/18 07:04 PM
10/13/18 07:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,067
Glendale, Ca.
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Dave Ferris Offline
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Glendale, Ca.
The cabinet style , legs and music desk are not my thing at all but the tone -- through my Neumann KH120s and Benchmark DAC 3- that's exquisite sounding ! So rich and very clear.

What a fantastic job, congrats. And congrats to whoever is the lucky buyer.


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: violarules] #2772248
10/13/18 08:52 PM
10/13/18 08:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 807
K
Karl Watson Offline
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Posts: 807
Friends, and esp. Keith:
As usual, a truly gorgeous piano that sounds as good as it looks !
The pianist is superb - wonderful inner voices.
Bravo all round.
Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Danielou] #2772253
10/13/18 09:23 PM
10/13/18 09:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 202
Paris, France
trandinhnamanh Offline
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trandinhnamanh  Offline
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Paris, France
Beautiful mellow tone! To me, this long sustained sweet and clear tone is just so familiar, although my beloved Steinway C is a modern Hamburg one and sounds little brighter. Hope to hear some lowest bass notes on this rebuilt NY model C to compare. Modern Hamburg C's basses are just marvellous.


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: violarules] #2772254
10/13/18 09:26 PM
10/13/18 09:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 120
Singapore
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Originally Posted by violarules
I know Keith K. probably won't post this here to "toot his own horn", so I will have to. This rebuilt Steinway C from Piano Craft popped up on my facebook feed. Holy cow, it sounds fantastic. I think it might be the same instrument they were in the process of rebuilding last Summer when I visited them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyj...8hGZWCdxrygiwlhigr8O80DiSls1Q68Ot8Zg9cxs


Its a gorgeous rebuild. Probably the same one that was at being rebuilt when I was there in May. Such warmth, intimacy and roundness to the tone that is such a stark contrast to the glassier sounding pianos more commonly heard these days.
Congratulations to Keith!


Sauter Delta 185, Bosendorfer 225, Ibach F III 215


Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Danielou] #2772256
10/13/18 09:35 PM
10/13/18 09:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 84
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edferris Offline
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One rebuilt C I encountered recently, at a quite respectable shop, had a rather small sound, a sticking damper, and a very bad "flame mahogany" finish in the wrong red with urethane coating. Made me wonder if the cabinet refinisher had ever seen an original piano. DON'T USE URETHANE.

Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Danielou] #2772257
10/13/18 09:36 PM
10/13/18 09:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 202
Paris, France
trandinhnamanh Offline
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trandinhnamanh  Offline
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Posts: 202
Paris, France
BTW, this is how a new modern Hamburg Steinway C sounds:

Hamburg Steinway C-227 (1)

Hamburg Steinway C-227 (2)

Hamburg Steinway C-227 (3)

Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 10/13/18 09:43 PM.

Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: violarules] #2772270
10/13/18 11:24 PM
10/13/18 11:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 237
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wolfgangmeister Offline
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Originally Posted by violarules
I know Keith K. probably won't post this here to "toot his own horn", so I will have to. This rebuilt Steinway C from Piano Craft popped up on my facebook feed. Holy cow, it sounds fantastic. I think it might be the same instrument they were in the process of rebuilding last Summer when I visited them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyj...8hGZWCdxrygiwlhigr8O80DiSls1Q68Ot8Zg9cxs

Originally Posted by Karl Watson
Friends, and esp. Keith:
As usual, a truly gorgeous piano that sounds as good as it looks !
The pianist is superb - wonderful inner voices.
Bravo all round.
Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

Wow! Beautifully finished piano and what a beautiful balanced and lush sound...
and what a gorgeous performance of the Schumann Arabesque by Pianist Hai Jin!
Just an outstanding job done by PianoCraft on this historic NY Model C. Thanks for sharing!


Jason Solomonides
Mason & Hamlin 7' BB 93623
Yamaha 6'1" C3 (w/WNG) D3010008
My Piano Recordings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7aJcfJZZvg&list=PLkP65I5BsNirTcv-nAHm4BXXsCbB_EbAJ
Mason & Hamlin Artist
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Danielou] #2772371
10/14/18 10:58 AM
10/14/18 10:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,957
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
K
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Keith D Kerman  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,957
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Well thank you very much for the nice comments. Here are a couple more recordings of that piano that I hope you all enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7iGyJzCo-0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nz5uZsBv5E


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out http://sitkadoc.com/
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Danielou] #2772381
10/14/18 11:28 AM
10/14/18 11:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 609
New Hampshire
W
WilliamTruitt Online content
500 Post Club Member
WilliamTruitt  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 609
New Hampshire
What wonderful color coming from this piano. Bright, present, and clear, and still this much color. There is artistry in her playing, there surely is artistry in the voicing of what is a very strong instrument. I think the voicer deserves a serious shout-out. Who is he or she?

The bass is gorgeous and nicely balanced to the rest of the piano. The bass strings sound too clean to come from Steinway's domestic supplier. My guess is either JD Grandt or Heller.

Congratulations on a wonderful accomplishment.

Will Truitt


fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Danielou] #2772399
10/14/18 12:24 PM
10/14/18 12:24 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,226
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Online content
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Rich Galassini  Online Content
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,226
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Hi Keith,

This is a beautiful result, Keith. This is obviously prepared for a living room space and for a pianist who enjoys the delicate side of the tonal spectrum. Bravo Sir!

If my ears are not deceiving me, Keith used Ronsen hammers that were custom made for his purpose. (Please let me know if I am wrong about that, Keith). They are a fine choice for this instrument and the type of prep. you have done.

We recently finished an 1889 S&S C and have a video of it as well. However, it did turn out differently than this piano did, mostly because the player has different demands. If there is interest I can post that video for a direct comparison.

That is beautiful work, Keith.Keep it up, Brother!

Cheers,




Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Rich Galassini] #2772401
10/14/18 12:33 PM
10/14/18 12:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,666
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
1000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,666
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Hi Keith,

This is a beautiful result, Keith. This is obviously prepared for a living room space and for a pianist who enjoys the delicate side of the tonal spectrum. Bravo Sir!

If my ears are not deceiving me, Keith used Ronsen hammers that were custom made for his purpose. (Please let me know if I am wrong about that, Keith). They are a fine choice for this instrument and the type of prep. you have done.

We recently finished an 1889 S&S C and have a video of it as well. However, it did turn out differently than this piano did, mostly because the player has different demands. If there is interest I can post that video for a direct comparison.

That is beautiful work, Keith.Keep it up, Brother!

Cheers,




I know I would love to hear a comparison!


[Linked Image]
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Rich Galassini] #2772406
10/14/18 12:54 PM
10/14/18 12:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,957
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
K
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Keith D Kerman  Offline
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K

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,957
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Hi Rich,

Thank you for the kind words. For a minute, I was concerned you wouldn't jump into this thread. smile
We did use Ronsen hammers but they were not custom made for this piano. They were just a standard set that we ordered. We did customize them for the piano however.

I see no reason for you not to link your video if that is what you want to do.

I would also point out that the music in the videos live in the more delicate side of the tonal spectrum as you put it and the pianist is wonderfully subtle. In terms of the voicing, I am especially pleased with the voicing of the hammers for the shift pedal which Hai Jin uses as a coloring agent regularly. There is no lack of range in this instrument should the music and pianist ask for it but in the Schumann and the Bach it doesn't really make sense to play loudly. We did want to show it off at some softer volumes which is where many pianos can leave something to be desired. Loud is not difficult.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out http://sitkadoc.com/
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: WilliamTruitt] #2772415
10/14/18 01:19 PM
10/14/18 01:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,957
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
K
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Keith D Kerman  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,957
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted by WilliamTruitt
What wonderful color coming from this piano. Bright, present, and clear, and still this much color. There is artistry in her playing, there surely is artistry in the voicing of what is a very strong instrument. I think the voicer deserves a serious shout-out. Who is he or she?

The bass is gorgeous and nicely balanced to the rest of the piano. The bass strings sound too clean to come from Steinway's domestic supplier. My guess is either JD Grandt or Heller.

Congratulations on a wonderful accomplishment.

Will Truitt


Thank you very much for your kind words. The primary voicer of this instrument is Matthew Pearson, and I think he did a very nice job in voicing, especially for the shift pedal which is often a neglected area. He knows the owners taste and the acoustic in which this piano will live. I would actually say that it is everything up to the point of voicing that makes this piano what it is. It is the belly design and execution along with getting the right type of hammer and then getting the hammer weight just right to match this belly that makes the biggest difference.


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out http://sitkadoc.com/
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Danielou] #2772422
10/14/18 01:44 PM
10/14/18 01:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 609
New Hampshire
W
WilliamTruitt Online content
500 Post Club Member
WilliamTruitt  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 609
New Hampshire
It is interesting that these are Ronsen hammers. I have been using the Ronsen Weikert felt hammers, which are fabulous. Even when lacquered, they have more color than the factory Steinway hammers.

Ray Negron of Ronsen is a fabulous resource. I can get hammers from him that are completely unprepped, no coving, curving, boring, tapering, etc. As part of the action set up, I do all that. That allows me to control the hammer weight to the parameters I want. The hammer bore is what it needs to be, and the tail lengths are correct. Ed McMorrow turned me on to getting Ray to make the hammers slightly narrower than stock, so as to have even more control over the hammer weight, especially in the treble. where you may be seeking a lighter hammer than most makers can give you. Ray is very obliging.

The voicing is so clean and clear that it would expose any warts the piano has. Good thing it doesn't have any!

Will Truitt


fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Keith D Kerman] #2772685
10/15/18 09:58 AM
10/15/18 09:58 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,226
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Online content
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Online Content
Platinum Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,226
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
Hi Rich,

Thank you for the kind words. For a minute, I was concerned you wouldn't jump into this thread. smile


well.... you know better than THAT, don't you? wink


Originally Posted by Keith D Kerman
I would also point out that the music in the videos live in the more delicate side of the tonal spectrum as you put it and the pianist is wonderfully subtle. In terms of the voicing, I am especially pleased with the voicing of the hammers for the shift pedal which Hai Jin uses as a coloring agent regularly. There is no lack of range in this instrument should the music and pianist ask for it but in the Schumann and the Bach it doesn't really make sense to play loudly. We did want to show it off at some softer volumes which is where many pianos can leave something to be desired. Loud is not difficult.


Agreed. Loud is easy.

Just for fun, here is an "almost the same year" S&S C that was delivered to Dr. Carl Cranmer this past summer. I joined him in his home to talk about the piano and how he got it, etc. which is a cool story. If you would like to go direxctly to music, begin at 6 minutes into the video:
https://youtu.be/gf0WKAh_MAk

Cheers - and again - nice work Keith.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Keith D Kerman] #2772716
10/15/18 12:26 PM
10/15/18 12:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 47
Vienna, Austria
O
OE1FEU Offline
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OE1FEU  Offline
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O

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 47
Vienna, Austria
Keith, could you tell us what is a actually left of the 1886 original piano? I can see it has new strings, the bridge looks new and the color of the soundboard also suggests it's not original. Can you tell us a little more about re-working the action?

Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: trandinhnamanh] #2772723
10/15/18 12:49 PM
10/15/18 12:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,006
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,006
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by trandinhnamanh
BTW, this is how a new modern Hamburg Steinway C sounds:

Hamburg Steinway C-227 (1)

Hamburg Steinway C-227 (2)

Hamburg Steinway C-227 (3)



IIRC, the C is the only model that is only made in Hamburg. For all others, the tooling exists at both factories.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: JohnSprung] #2772766
10/15/18 03:44 PM
10/15/18 03:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,010
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
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B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,010
Oakland
Hamburg makes the V, which is not made in New York any longer.


Semipro Tech
Re: Steinway C - how do they compare? [Re: Danielou] #2772819
10/15/18 06:32 PM
10/15/18 06:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,006
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,006
Reseda, California

Wow, I've never even heard of the V. What is it?


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
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