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Pricing on used Estonia L168 #2771756
10/12/18 07:49 AM
10/12/18 07:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3
Arlington, MA
S
ShrinkDoc Offline OP
Junior Member
ShrinkDoc  Offline OP
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S

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3
Arlington, MA
Greetings all --

First time poster here (so go easy on me). I have been on a quest to upgrade my Schimmel 120I upright to a grand -- something generally in the 5'7" to 6'2" range. I'm working on a budget up to ~$25k after sale or trade-in of the Schimmel.

Up until now, I have been looking at rebuilt Steinways (M, O, or A), but have recently started considering other makes such as M&H and even a rebuilt Bluthner. Recently, I came across a used Estonia L168 built in 2006 that is described as being played sparingly since purchase. Seller is asking $25k. I haven't seen/played it yet (planning to do that in the coming days), but wondered if you all thought this was a reasonable price. Seemed a bit high to me, but the market for Estonia pianos seems hot right now so I assume there aren't a whole lot of used options out there (I could be completely wrong about this).

Also, any thoughts about the quality of an L168 built in 2006? From what I've read on this forum, there were a lot of build changes going on throughout the late 90s and early 2000s, but it seems that the L168 was at the forefront of these improvements. I've played recently built Estonias, and they were fantastic instruments.

Any thoughts/advice/wisdom on the Estonia or in general would be welcome. Many thanks!

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Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: ShrinkDoc] #2771780
10/12/18 08:38 AM
10/12/18 08:38 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,229
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
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I can't give an educated opinion on the price but IF you like it a lot don't let the price, IF only SOMEWHAT on the high side, nix buying it.

Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: ShrinkDoc] #2771796
10/12/18 09:32 AM
10/12/18 09:32 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,639
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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terminaldegree  Offline
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Georgia, USA
That’s probably roughly what it cost as a brand new piano in 2006, if not more. If the piano’s being offered by a reputable dealer with a warranty and was expertly prepped and in fantastic condition, then that price might make a little more sense. Otherwise, bargain hard if you like it.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: ShrinkDoc] #2771804
10/12/18 09:56 AM
10/12/18 09:56 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 277
Chicago
J
John305 Offline
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John305  Offline
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 277
Chicago
That sounds extremely high. There may not be a lot of used Estonia pianos out there as you say, I don’t know but there are a lot of other fine used pianos out there. I recently bought a used Shigeru Kawai SK-7 for right around your budget and it was a couple of years newer, it was/is in like new condition. If it has to be Estonia then you are going to have limited options but if you’re open to other makes then I’m certain you can find a very fine instrument of the size you’re looking for within your budget. Good luck.


It’s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: terminaldegree] #2771817
10/12/18 11:05 AM
10/12/18 11:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3
Arlington, MA
S
ShrinkDoc Offline OP
Junior Member
ShrinkDoc  Offline OP
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S

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3
Arlington, MA
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
That’s probably roughly what it cost as a brand new piano in 2006, if not more. If the piano’s being offered by a reputable dealer with a warranty and was expertly prepped and in fantastic condition, then that price might make a little more sense. Otherwise, bargain hard if you like it.


Thanks for bringing this up. Yes, I forgot to mention that this is a private seller so I don't expect any of the perks that come along with buying from a reputable dealer (i.e., warranty, tuning/voicing/regulation, etc.). More reason that the price seemed high to me.

Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: John305] #2771818
10/12/18 11:11 AM
10/12/18 11:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 179
P
Piano90X Offline
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Piano90X  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by John305
That sounds extremely high. There may not be a lot of used Estonia pianos out there as you say, I don’t know but there are a lot of other fine used pianos out there. I recently bought a used Shigeru Kawai SK-7 for right around your budget and it was a couple of years newer, it was/is in like new condition. If it has to be Estonia then you are going to have limited options but if you’re open to other makes then I’m certain you can find a very fine instrument of the size you’re looking for within your budget. Good luck.


How did you find a used Shigeru?

The Kawai dealer in my city doesn't even carry new Shigerus.

Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: ShrinkDoc] #2771891
10/12/18 03:27 PM
10/12/18 03:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,324
S
Sir Lurksalot Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Sir Lurksalot  Offline
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S

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,324
If the piano is black and the buyer got a normal deal on it, they probably paid around $19 - $20K in 2006.

Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: ShrinkDoc] #2771927
10/12/18 05:09 PM
10/12/18 05:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,612
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,612
Atlanta, GA
The original price paid has no baring on the price now. Current resale for any brand & model still in production is based on a percentage price of new & relative condition + of course factors like demand. I've had used high end pianos, for example, originally purchased in the early 2000's sell for more the 2nd time just 10-12 years later.

If the model doesn't have a clear successor or if the brand's identity changes, then resale becomes disconnected from new pricing. This happened with Artist series Baldwin pianos, for example.


Sam Bennett
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Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: ShrinkDoc] #2771969
10/12/18 07:33 PM
10/12/18 07:33 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,639
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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terminaldegree  Offline
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,639
Georgia, USA
Sam makes a correct point, philosophically, however I still can’t figure how we get to a $25k private party asking price, no matter which way we’re spinning the calendar, the numbers, or the reels...


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: terminaldegree] #2771974
10/12/18 07:48 PM
10/12/18 07:48 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 277
Chicago
J
John305 Offline
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John305  Offline
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J

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 277
Chicago
Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Sam makes a correct point, philosophically, however I still can’t figure how we get to a $25k private party asking price, no matter which way we’re spinning the calendar, the numbers, or the reels...



+1


It’s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: ShrinkDoc] #2771980
10/12/18 08:38 PM
10/12/18 08:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 189
USA
J
jarobi Offline
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jarobi  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 189
USA
I passed on a 2004 Estonia 190 in excellent shape for $13K a couple of months ago and later saw it on eBay for $12K. Shop around.

Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: ShrinkDoc] #2772261
10/13/18 09:55 PM
10/13/18 09:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3
Arlington, MA
S
ShrinkDoc Offline OP
Junior Member
ShrinkDoc  Offline OP
Junior Member
S

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 3
Arlington, MA
Thanks to all for the helpful comments. Just a quick follow-up:

I played the used Estonia L168 today. With the exception of needing a tuning in a major way, it was a nice instrument. However, the seller was largely inflexible about the price and I just didn't think it was worth what he was asking. Also, I am just really wary of private sales.

Nonetheless, thanks to some of the comments I received, I decided to go to my local Estonia dealer and play a new L168. Very glad I did. It made me realize that expanding my budget a bit more might be worth it to get a piano of this caliber.

Of course, the story doesn't end there. While I was at the dealer, I also played a nicely rebuilt 1912 Steinway M that was comparable in price to the new Estonia L168. Despite being very different pianos, I fell in love with both and am now going back and forth on my decision. Either way, I'll be spending a bit more than I was originally expecting, but well worth it I think.

Re: Pricing on used Estonia L168 [Re: ShrinkDoc] #2772309
10/14/18 06:25 AM
10/14/18 06:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 59
O
oldMH Offline
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oldMH  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 59
Piano Price Creep is real. The more instruments you play, the farther it can creep. At the very least, if it creeps out of control try to ensure you are getting a great deal of spending far more than your initial budget.


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