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Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771402
10/11/18 10:02 AM
10/11/18 10:02 AM
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Posts: 3,661
Atlanta, GA
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Schimmel made the CC208 and then, about that time, the CC213 (different model than the K213). There were even a few of the K213's that were called something similar when they were first released. I know we still had the CC213's around (we used one as a rental) until about 2004-2005. We first sold Schimmel in 2000, and we did have a couple of 208's before the first 213's arrived. It's very probable that it took a while to cycle some 208's out of warehouses and showrooms, accounting for the slightly older serial.

If it says 213 anywhere on the piano (rubbery sticker) then it's that early 213. I really liked those, but the model was short lived because of the across the board change to create the Konzert series grands.

I still don't think it's compound. Compound gets concentrated near the outside edge that gets polished, even if there is a lot of compound.

I'm not the mold expert, and others have given good advice. When restoring an older piano that we are also refinishing, we'll use Kilz after cleaning, before painting on the beams and under side of the inner rim. We just paint the bottom edge of the rim.


Sam Bennett
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Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771405
10/11/18 10:17 AM
10/11/18 10:17 AM
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Norway
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Norway
Originally Posted by Chris Snyder

...
Now on to all the other fun: scheduling the move with a piano mover, deciding whether we need caster cups (the casters are quite wide already, but it is going on a hardwood floor),...


Personally I do not like caster cups. For a wooden floor I think it is better to use casters that are designed for wooden floor, such as this
[Linked Image]

This specific one is from an August Förster, but Schimmel supply them also.

Last edited by Skjalg; 10/11/18 10:18 AM.
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771415
10/11/18 10:49 AM
10/11/18 10:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 19
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Chris Snyder Offline OP
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Contacted the dealer that originally sold it, and he's sure that it's a 213. I've been reading as much as I can find on the differences between model years, and I think the earlier 213 design suits us better—this is going in a living room, after all.

Those casters look really nice. I bet they're spendy, though.


1999 Schimmel CC213T
2006 Yamaha M450

Avocational organist, pianist, and chorister
Married to a piano teacher
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771430
10/11/18 11:10 AM
10/11/18 11:10 AM
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Southwestern Ontario
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871 lbs divided by 3, then distributed on a castor maybe 4 inces wide by 1/16th inch contact. That’s about 1161 lbs per square inch.

Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771436
10/11/18 11:22 AM
10/11/18 11:22 AM
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Reseda, California
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That reminds me of the early days of passenger jet aircraft, which coincided with "needle" heels being fashionable. A 100 pound woman standing on a 1/4" square would be 1600 psi, enough to damage the floorboards.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771443
10/11/18 11:37 AM
10/11/18 11:37 AM
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Southwestern Ontario
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Southwestern Ontario
My previous house master bedroom had hundreds of stiletto heel marks that were too deep to be removed by sanding. Some people are idiots.

Actually, I can relate a story about a piano. My co-pilot from a few years ago did house renovations on the side for fun. He got a call from a women living in a brand new starter-mansion. The grand piano legs had punched through the living room floor and the piano case was now resting on the floor. It turns out that the building code had changed from 3/4” plywood subflooring to 5/8” OSB (oriented strand board, basically crap wood bits glued together). You get what you pay for.


Last edited by prout; 10/11/18 11:44 AM.
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: prout] #2771462
10/11/18 12:25 PM
10/11/18 12:25 PM
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Reseda, California
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Originally Posted by prout
. The grand piano legs had punched through the living room floor and the piano case was now resting on the floor.


Yikes -- What happened to the lyre and pedals? I know what you mean about OSB, they're even using 1/2" (15/32" really) now. And the miserable stuff is curved like potato chips.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771472
10/11/18 12:38 PM
10/11/18 12:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
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Southwestern Ontario
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The lyre was destroyed, but caused only cosmetic damage to the underside.

Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771477
10/11/18 12:49 PM
10/11/18 12:49 PM
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Southwestern Ontario
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My M&H BB weighs 1020 lbs and rests on three 4x4 inch 1/4” thick squares of steel, covered by champhered black squares of wood.

Last edited by prout; 10/11/18 12:49 PM.
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771482
10/11/18 01:01 PM
10/11/18 01:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 19
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Chris Snyder Offline OP
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That is one of the advantages of older houses (at least our older house): our floors are 3/4-inch old growth oak over a nice thick wood plank subfloor (not sure of the thickness or species, but it's not shabby). And the beams holding up the joists are four 2x10 boards (actual 2x10 - not 1.75x9.5 or something) sandwiched together. The floors are almost perfectly level and don't bounce at all.


1999 Schimmel CC213T
2006 Yamaha M450

Avocational organist, pianist, and chorister
Married to a piano teacher
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771616
10/11/18 06:25 PM
10/11/18 06:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 932
Queensland, Australia
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Originally Posted by Chris Snyder
... Now on to all the other fun: scheduling the move with a piano mover, deciding whether we need caster cups (the casters are quite wide already, but it is going on a hardwood floor), ...

My Schimmel (2010 C-182) came with castor caps. I soon had a sore ankle from pedalling the raised pedal. My piano was on carpeted concrete, so within a week, I'd removed the castor caps.

There are options
1) ensure that the castors of the piano are located over solid bearers or joists - this could mark the timber permanently though;
2) keep the castors, and place a compensating pad under your heel - you'll need to increase the height of the bench to compensate
3) keep the castors and put a compensating board or similar under the pedals AND bench.

In hindsight, I would have done 2) - but I wasn't going to put them back - the piano was VERY heavy, and putting them back was probably a little trickier than taking them out.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: backto_study_piano] #2771624
10/11/18 06:34 PM
10/11/18 06:34 PM
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Southwestern Ontario
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Southwestern Ontario
Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
Originally Posted by Chris Snyder
... Now on to all the other fun: scheduling the move with a piano mover, deciding whether we need caster cups (the casters are quite wide already, but it is going on a hardwood floor), ...

My Schimmel (2010 C-182) came with castor caps. I soon had a sore ankle from pedalling the raised pedal. My piano was on carpeted concrete, so within a week, I'd removed the castor caps.

There are options
1) ensure that the castors of the piano are located over solid bearers or joists - this could mark the timber permanently though;
2) keep the castors, and place a compensating pad under your heel - you'll need to increase the height of the bench to compensate
3) keep the castors and put a compensating board or similar under the pedals AND bench.

In hindsight, I would have done 2) - but I wasn't going to put them back - the piano was VERY heavy, and putting them back was probably a little trickier than taking them out.
When my M&H BB arrived, the pedals were WAY TOO HIGH, even though the castor plate only 1/4” thick. I complained to M&H, and they sent a technician with a fix for the pedals under warrenty. It is now perfect. The fix was simply three very thick pieces of leather (sheepskin) that were placed inside the pedal lyre mechanism. Apperently, they send out the pianos with high pedals as standard, and change them as required for the customer preference.

Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771626
10/11/18 06:48 PM
10/11/18 06:48 PM
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Reseda, California
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I just use a block of wood under my heel, on top of a piece of rubber mat, which protects the floor from wear.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771771
10/12/18 08:21 AM
10/12/18 08:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 19
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Chris Snyder Offline OP
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Grand Rapids, Michigan
We've decided to go with caster cups. I'm not too worried about pedal height. Looking at the various pianos I play on regularly (including an upright Schimmel on a dolly), I'm sure the height is all over the place. And as an organist, I'm used to dealing with a lot more than three pedals that aren't the optimal height.

My only concern would be for my wife's piano students, that it doesn't cause an issue for them. Though at this point her students aren't at a level where it would make much of a difference, since she mainly teaches beginners (she feels especially called and gifted for that kind of teaching, even though many "professional" teachers look down on it).

After talking with the movers, it looks like there's a good chance we'll be getting the piano next week. I'll be sure to post pictures!


1999 Schimmel CC213T
2006 Yamaha M450

Avocational organist, pianist, and chorister
Married to a piano teacher
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771951
10/12/18 06:37 PM
10/12/18 06:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 932
Queensland, Australia
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Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted by Chris Snyder
We've decided to go with caster cups. I'm not too worried about pedal height. Looking at the various pianos I play on regularly (including an upright Schimmel on a dolly), I'm sure the height is all over the place. And as an organist, I'm used to dealing with a lot more than three pedals that aren't the optimal height.

My only concern would be for my wife's piano students, that it doesn't cause an issue for them. Though at this point her students aren't at a level where it would make much of a difference, since she mainly teaches beginners (she feels especially called and gifted for that kind of teaching, even though many "professional" teachers look down on it).

After talking with the movers, it looks like there's a good chance we'll be getting the piano next week. I'll be sure to post pictures!

Sounds great - enjoy your new piano. I'm a Pipe Organist too - play 5 or 6 different ones, and the bench height and other dimensions are all different - even the 2 almost identical Allens. We learn to adapt. My Church's Allen - I donated a replacement adjustable bench to replace the standard bench recently - there are 4 or 5 other organists who occasionally play, and we were always changing blocks under the bench - had a collection of different sizes.

You can always put a plate or something under your heel area at a later date.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2771987
10/12/18 09:13 PM
10/12/18 09:13 PM
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Southwestern Ontario
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My degree is in performance organ, but that has nothing to do with pedal height.

You make it sound as if only organists are able to adapt to a poorly designed pedal lyre.

Why not expect the piano manufacturer or dealer or your technician to correct the issue?

Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2772187
10/13/18 03:01 PM
10/13/18 03:01 PM
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North Vancouver
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A piano technician once told me about a woman who once danced with her high heels on ,on the top of an expensive grand piano at some venue for some special event.The manager most terribly upset called someone to attend to the dotted marks all over the top
of the piano .Don't who was sued for the damage !!! Enjoy your Schimmel, and no dancing

Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2772259
10/13/18 09:38 PM
10/13/18 09:38 PM
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Pacific Northwest
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I have castor cups on my 1988 Schimmel grand and the pedal hieght has never been a problem. My piano has been remarkably stable with a tuning required only about once every two years. That may have someting to do with living in a temperate climate with low humidity. Hope you enjoy your Schimmel for years to come.



Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2772647
10/15/18 07:47 AM
10/15/18 07:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 19
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Chris Snyder Offline OP
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Grand Rapids, Michigan
No dancing on it... check (though my kids are losing some of their dance floor space in the living room).

We'll be putting it on a six-month tuning schedule (the minimum for a teaching piano, IMHO).


1999 Schimmel CC213T
2006 Yamaha M450

Avocational organist, pianist, and chorister
Married to a piano teacher
Re: White mold(?) on bottom of rim of a Schimmel CC213T [Re: Chris Snyder] #2772653
10/15/18 08:11 AM
10/15/18 08:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
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Queensland, Australia
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Yes - though you might want to keep an ear on it in the beginning - you'll want it serviced when it acclimatises/settles in maybe 6 or 8 weeks, and consider another after maybe another 3 months - then every 6 months might work. Getting it off to a good stable start is a good idea. But - it might be fine - each piano and each environment is different.

Mine was new, and I found 3-4 months was needed initially between services, but now it's 4+ yrs old, I'm more like every 5-6 months.

Enjoy your new piano!!!!!


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
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