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supplement for recovering weight #2771484
10/11/18 02:08 PM
10/11/18 02:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7
Buenos Aires, Argentina
M
Matias Palou Offline OP
Junior Member
Matias Palou  Offline OP
Junior Member
M

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Hello everybody,

A few years ago the technician working on my piano did a particular work: He added weights to the end of each whippen. He told me that it helped regain the original weight of the mecanism (we are talking about a 100 years old german upright piano) due to the dryness of the wood over the years. As a consecuense the touchweight increased and repetition also improved, which are two things I'm happy about but i'd like to hear your feedback on this kind of work.

I mesured the weight using coins to get an approximate and it is as follows, always holding the sostenuto pedal to lift the dampers:
Downweight: 64g (few notes going down) and 70g (almost all notes going down)
Upweight: 25.5g (few notes going up) and 32g (almost all notes going up).

I believe it is a rather heavy action but I don't mind that much because I'm a professional pianist and it makes my fingers work more (is it too much?)

My hammer heads have very deep grooves and I'm seriously thinking about changing it. So I would also like to know if this weight supplements might have negative consequences on the action (like reducing the utility/life of the hammers) and it is advisable to take them out when changing the hammer heads.

In the following link you can see photos I've uploaded: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ycefpkd3iW4QTZd67

[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZY2qLNJA9JuJbDUU9[/img]
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/L35KmkJgUcZ9UxJy6[/img]
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/CC6PYth55zcaksbJ6[/img]

Thank you in advance! grin


Pianist and tuner apprentice
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Re: supplement for recovering weight [Re: Matias Palou] #2771557
10/11/18 05:10 PM
10/11/18 05:10 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,520
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,520
Scotland
Those hammer definitely need filing! Probably that would suffice, rather than new hammers. One of the hammers has a loose center, giving side-play - the one in the pic that does not have the defined grooves but general wear. That happens because the hammer is wobbling around and striking the strings in a different spot each time. Probably a drifted center-pin, or maybe a split flange.


The down-weight seems heavy - was that with the damper pedal depressed, or not?


Don't really like the idea of the lead weights. I don't buy the idea that it replaces the weight of lost moisture!

Re: supplement for recovering weight [Re: Matias Palou] #2771754
10/12/18 08:47 AM
10/12/18 08:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 612
E
Ed A. Hall Online content
500 Post Club Member
Ed A. Hall  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 612
It's preferable to add the lead weights to the keysticks but adding them to the end of the whippens also works. Also, 65-70 grams of down weight on an upright is fine.
.
What kind of weights are those?

Re: supplement for recovering weight [Re: Matias Palou] #2771763
10/12/18 09:02 AM
10/12/18 09:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7
Buenos Aires, Argentina
M
Matias Palou Offline OP
Junior Member
Matias Palou  Offline OP
Junior Member
M

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Thank you for your answer David. I did pressed the damper pedal when measuring downweight and upweight.
I changed some center pins about a year and a half ago, so maybe that is the result of previous usage but I'll check.

Concerning filing, according to the technician (which already did that two times) there is not much felt left to continue. How far can you go with filing?

As for the lead weights, I think it also changes the feel of the action. If I'm not wrong, there is a fine balance between hammer head weight, spring tension, center pin friction, etc. that is altered by putting such weights.


Pianist and tuner apprentice
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Re: supplement for recovering weight [Re: Matias Palou] #2771785
10/12/18 09:55 AM
10/12/18 09:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7
Buenos Aires, Argentina
M
Matias Palou Offline OP
Junior Member
Matias Palou  Offline OP
Junior Member
M

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Originally Posted by Ed A. Hall

.
What kind of weights are those?


Lead weights I believe


Pianist and tuner apprentice
Re: supplement for recovering weight [Re: Matias Palou] #2771813
10/12/18 11:29 AM
10/12/18 11:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,601
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
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BDB  Offline
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Oakland
There is very little weight loss due to moisture in the wood, as the wood must be very dry when the pianos is made. In vertical pianos, lessening of the touch resistance is due to weakening of the springs. Replacing them makes for a snappier action. Weights change the balance of the action, and they can lead to additional noise.


Semipro Tech
Re: supplement for recovering weight [Re: Matias Palou] #2771834
10/12/18 12:50 PM
10/12/18 12:50 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,520
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,520
Scotland
Looking again at the action pics, I see that indeed there isn't a great deal of felt left to file. So it does look like a case of having new hammers.

Re: supplement for recovering weight [Re: Matias Palou] #2771952
10/12/18 07:37 PM
10/12/18 07:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 47
C
cordoba Offline
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cordoba  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 47
change the inertia of the action, consequently the cashmire surrounding the axes may be affected

Re: supplement for recovering weight [Re: Matias Palou] #2772813
10/15/18 07:15 PM
10/15/18 07:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 140
E
Ed Sutton Offline
Full Member
Ed Sutton  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 140
Adding weight to wippens or keybacks just adds dead weight.
Adding weight to the hammer heads provides inertial resistance which will be transferred to the string as dynamic response to your efforts.
This should be adjusted when the hammers are replaced.


Ed Sutton, RPT
Just a piano tuner!
Durham NC USA
Re: supplement for recovering weight [Re: Ed Sutton] #2773293
Yesterday at 10:18 AM
Yesterday at 10:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 26
S
Scott Cole, RPT Offline
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Scott Cole, RPT  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 26
Ed,
What about damper spring strength and timing?
Scott


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