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Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again #2771277
10/11/18 02:00 AM
10/11/18 02:00 AM
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Paul Mann Offline OP
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I have had my Kawai MP7SE for 9 months now and the switches under the keys
are going bad for the second time. The first time I started getting maximum volume
at random times from several keys. You get a headache when it happens, not fun.

Now one key does not get louder with more pressure or hitting it harder. The D just
above middle C.

I have only been playing the keyboard for a few weeks since all the key switches were
replaced with brand new ones (or maybe used ones ... I wonder).

After getting the keyboard back with new switches the LCD was blank. It had to be
replaced.

Don't get a Kawai MP7SE. Based on my experience, they are not durable, quite the
opposite, very fragile.

It looks like I wasted $1800.

Is there anybody else who has had this much trouble with Kawai keyboards?

I'm not hitting the keys that hard. My Yamaha pf80 was used when I bought it in
1987 and it lasted for 4 years without any problems.

Which keyboard is durable and has professional sounds, suitable for making
recordings? The Kawai sounds are disappointing, IMO.

BTW, the Kawai MP11 that I had for one week on a trial basis, had a problem with
3 keys, so I returned it.





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Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771281
10/11/18 02:29 AM
10/11/18 02:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Hello Paul, welcome back to the forum.

I'm sorry to read that one of the keys on your MP7SE is not working correctly.

My recommendation would be to consult with Kawai America to have the issue resolved under warranty.

Browsing through your previous posts to the forum, I see that you previously owned an MP7, ES8, and MP11 before the MP7SE, so it's unfortunate that you're experiencing difficulties with your most recent Kawai.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771282
10/11/18 02:33 AM
10/11/18 02:33 AM
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If the board is 9 months old you didn't waste you money. After 3 repair attempts you can ask them to undo the purchase and get your money back.

IIRC all Digitals can have action problems. You read least about Yamaha but problems do exist there too.
As for the sounds: just get a VST of your choice and never bother with internal sounds again.

Last edited by Granyala; 10/11/18 02:33 AM.

The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771392
10/11/18 10:39 AM
10/11/18 10:39 AM
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Paul Mann Offline OP
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Thanks Granyala. I got it from Sweetwater. I will ask them to undo the purchase price and see what happens.

Thanks Kawai James. I already went through that process once and it was very disappointing. I was without a working
keyboard for about 3 months total. I'm ready to move on to another keyboard company.


Last edited by Paul Mann; 10/11/18 10:41 AM.
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Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771417
10/11/18 11:53 AM
10/11/18 11:53 AM
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JohnSprung Online content
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Wow, and I was so close to pulling the trigger on buying an MP7SE.... No way now.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771421
10/11/18 11:56 AM
10/11/18 11:56 AM
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Hi Paul,

I have to say (at least on this forum) whilst all brands come up with key issues Kawai seems to be prevalent with keys malfunctioning one way or another & this has put me off the brand.

Yesterday I checked out the ES8, MP7SE & then MP11SE, found the RH3 on the first two a bit on the light side but the MP11SE was nothing short of pure awesomeness; however at £2K here in the UK if that would go wrong I'd be p*ssed just like I was with the HP605.

Some people tried to blame the shipping process, I find that hard to believe unless the courier is dropping boxes from 10-feet high. It's more likely to be a QC thing or just bad assembly lines. However in your case, even a repair doesn't seem to work...totally see how you are ready to move on.

J

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771425
10/11/18 12:04 PM
10/11/18 12:04 PM
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halherta Offline
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I think digital piano buyers need to demand better quality control from Keyboard / digital piano manufacturers. Instead of just buying a DP based solely on its action and / or sound, we need to start making quality control our primary priority. And sure no DP/keyboard manufacturer can claim to posses perfect quality control. But there definitely are those that are better than others. I too avoid Kawais and Casios. I only consider Yamaha and Roland, and prefer Yamaha to Roland. And yes the Yamahas might not sound as nice as the others nor have as nice of an action. But the darned things are most likely to actually function as intended without breaking down 15 times every year.

Also acoustic pianos last forever, sure they need to be tuned and maintained once a year, but they can literally last for decades or even centuries. DP manufacturers need to design their DPs to last at least 10 years. Not 2 years. This planned obsolescence crap is not good and should not be encouraged.


Yamaha P-125, Roland GO:Piano, Pianoteq 6, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: halherta] #2771429
10/11/18 12:09 PM
10/11/18 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by halherta
DP manufacturers need to design their DPs to last at least 10 years....


Totally agree!

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771478
10/11/18 01:50 PM
10/11/18 01:50 PM
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Paul Mann Offline OP
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The first time the key switches went bad, I called Kawai Repair in California. The guy said it was probably the shipping
that caused the problem. So I put the keyboard in my mini-van on carpet (which is on 2 inches of foam padding) and
drove 30 miles to Mid-America Piano where an approved technician installed the new key switches. I then drove back
home.

About one month after I started playing, now I have another bad key. The key does not respond to more pressure
like all the keys around it. D above middle C. So ... it was not the shipping this time. I doubt it was the shipping, the
first time, because the Kawai keyboard box was originally shipped inside of a larger box with plastic air pillows surrounding
it. I have a feeling that Sweetwater knows they need to protect the Kawai keyboards because of this problem.

The first time the switches started going bad (after 3 months of playing), I told Sweetwater that I wanted to return the
keyboard. They became very silent and didn't want to talk about that subject.


Last edited by Paul Mann; 10/11/18 01:51 PM.
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771490
10/11/18 02:26 PM
10/11/18 02:26 PM
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Paul in the future, I highly recommend buying a Yamaha instead. Not because I'm a Yamaha fanboy but because at least for now Yamaha is the Honda of DPs i.e. their DP's don't break down as often and tend to have the least problems and the longest life. The minute Kawai's QC gets better than Yamaha's. I'd immediately switch to Kawai or whoever.

I also suggest buying from a local store that can manage any problems for you and get that extended warranty.

And Just because Yamaha has the best QC out of the DP manufacturers, it doesn't mean that their QC is good enough.


Yamaha P-125, Roland GO:Piano, Pianoteq 6, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771495
10/11/18 02:41 PM
10/11/18 02:41 PM
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Paul Mann Offline OP
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Thanks halherta. My Yamaha pf80 was very reliable in 1987-1992.

About Sweetwater. They want to send it back to Kawai to have it repaired.
Why should I keep getting it repaired every 2-3 months? Totally insane.

Last edited by Paul Mann; 10/11/18 02:44 PM.
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771497
10/11/18 02:53 PM
10/11/18 02:53 PM
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I once bought a YDP-143 (2nd hand) and drove it 200 miles on a blanket in the back of a rented van. Played daily and kept for 7-8 months and then moved it again as we moved houses...and then sold to a person who was a classically trained pianist (she got an amazing sound of it when she tested the piano before buying - kinda made me regret selling but by that time I had my sights on the Roland) which they drove it back to theirs (some 60 miles away I recall) and a few weeks later they called me to say how happy they were with it. I am willing to bet it's still going strong...

The Honda of DPs is so true. Try and sneeze on a Kawai and see how far you get 😁

Last edited by jamiecw; 10/11/18 02:59 PM.
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771513
10/11/18 03:54 PM
10/11/18 03:54 PM
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Haven't heard many reported problems with the VPC-1, which is why it's in my sights now.

Last edited by DuvSliders; 10/11/18 03:58 PM.

I never metaphor I didn't like.
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: halherta] #2771521
10/11/18 04:07 PM
10/11/18 04:07 PM
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It's not all about Kawai. I had a problem with my six-month-old Clavinova.
Originally Posted by jamiecw
I have to say (at least on this forum) whilst all brands come up with key issues Kawai seems to be prevalent with keys malfunctioning one way or another & this has put me off the brand.
It had one always-loud key. It was repaired in-home under warranty.
It happened again about a year later. A different key. But for some reason the cause was different and it was not covered under warranty.

Then about four years later a strip of contact pads had one broken dome. I replaced that octave strip ... and three others just for good measure.

It's also had all the keys lubed three different times. And it's about time to lubed it once again.

So ... for all the talk about how digital pianos are "maintenance free" compared to acoustic pianos ... well it just aint so, Joe.

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: JohnSprung] #2771527
10/11/18 04:31 PM
10/11/18 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnSprung

Wow, and I was so close to pulling the trigger on buying an MP7SE.... No way now.



Me too. Here's how I figure it:

The VPC-1 is $1,850. Take away say, $250 for the 'case' it's in, and you've got $1,600 of keyboard action.

The MP11SE is $2,800. It's got what many say is a keyboard action roughly equivalent, maybe a teeny bit better than the VPC-1. So let's give the action here a value of $1700. $1,700 + $250 case = $1,950. The $850 balance is for the electronics.

Now, to the MP7SE. $1800. Case: $250. Electronics - let's say $650. What's left is a $900 keyboard action assembly. That's just about half the cost of the VPC-1's action.

I'm sure I'm a lot off here & there... but you get the idea. Either the MP7SE has a lot less keyboard action or, if I'm totally goofy with this, then the VPC-1, at $50 more than the '7 for just a keyboard action and no electronics, is over priced.

Point is, the MP7SE and the VPC-1 can't BOTH be wonderful and reliable actions. My money's on the VPC-1. And as soon as NAMM happens, I'm spending it.

Last edited by DuvSliders; 10/11/18 04:36 PM.

I never metaphor I didn't like.
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771536
10/11/18 04:42 PM
10/11/18 04:42 PM
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Paul Mann Offline OP
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Here is the response I got from Sweetwater:

"We have been working with Kawai for decades and have not experienced these issues before.
I know we would not be selling their products if we knew they were not usually high quality.
I am truly sorry you have been having these issues. Unfortunately, there is no way we would
be able to take a return on something that was sold nearly a year ago."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess I just have to get it repaired every 2 months, until the 2-year warrantee runs out.
I wonder if they will give me a loaner while the original one is being repaired in California?

So, I am the first person in decades that has these issues ????? I don't buy it.

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771539
10/11/18 04:45 PM
10/11/18 04:45 PM
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OUCH! I just read this at the bottom of Kawai's Oct 11, 2017 announcement of the MP7SE and MP11SE:

Class-leading keyboard actions, stunning acoustic piano sounds, intuitive real-time control, and excellent build quality.
The new Kawai MP11SE and M7SE: Professional stage pianos for performers who do not accept compromise.


(the Bold is my doing).

.


I never metaphor I didn't like.
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771540
10/11/18 04:45 PM
10/11/18 04:45 PM
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Leaving key issues to the side for a second, have you compared the actions of the VPC1 against the MP11SE?

As far as I’m concerned the MP11SE Grand Feel action is second to none (subjectively of course). Tried it and despite reading about QC issues had I the money to spare I’d buy it in a heartbeat and deal with any potential fallout later..

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771558
10/11/18 05:10 PM
10/11/18 05:10 PM
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When we pay $1000-$4000 bucks for a piano its supposed to be for a fully functional piano with no broken keys from the get go. Some wear and tear is understandable over time. Some maintenance work might be needed in 2-5 years. Anything less than that is simply unacceptable.

Right now buying a DP; especially an expensive one, feels like buying a raffle ticket for a half decent piano. Depending on your luck, you end up with a good one or a bad one. And if you get a bad one, you're stuck with it. Welcome to Vegas everyone. I also find that QC at all Keyboard manufacturers has deteriorated significantly over time. And this is primarily because consumers are not demanding it strongly enough. We need to be very picky about QC.

There needs to be more emphasis on releasing DPs with quality builds perhaps once a decade and less emphasis on throwaway disposable builds being released once every couple of years with slightly fancier electronics. Again these pianos are not cheap! their build quality needs to be reflected in their price.

I can understand if a $500 DP gets a broken key just after a year. A $2000 DP shouldn't have any broken keys for at least 4 years!!!.



Last edited by halherta; 10/11/18 05:11 PM.

Yamaha P-125, Roland GO:Piano, Pianoteq 6, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771568
10/11/18 05:27 PM
10/11/18 05:27 PM
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DuvSliders, isn't the action on the 7 and the VPC1 identical? RHIII? I have thought about this myself. The MP 7 seems to give a lot more bang for the buck, except the intense velocity curve aspect. PianoManChuck raves about the VPC1 action. If it is the same as the 7 it seems equivalent to an average upright, IMO. I spent hours today comparing the action of the 7 and 11 today. Silently there is a secondary noise on the 7 that simply does not exist with the 11 grand feel action. I am not saying the 7 is broken, just that it is pretty inferior mechanically, at least as far as key noise is concerned. If the 7s action is the same as the VPC1 than I am glad I have passed it over. It is more a testimony as to how other brand actions are poor in comparison to something mediocre. I also tried the grand feel 2 briefly and it did indeed seem tighter and better feeling than the grand feel 1. ( I think the grand feel 1 is excellent for what it is, btw)

That being said I tried some Kawai grands. Very disappointing! Sound and action wise. Then I tried a Steinway. Very disappointing! Haha. I have played on a restored 1915 Steinway B for the last thirty years. Far and away better for me than the Steinway I played today. It is subjective after all, and each acoustic instrument is different, with different strengths and weaknesses. But in dps? Shouldn't be that way. However, you cannot expect a silk purse from a sow's ear. For two grand the 7s action and its accompanying sound engine, effects and piano samples is more than acceptable. The VPC1? Something is rotten in Denmark if the action is identical to the 7.

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771573
10/11/18 05:50 PM
10/11/18 05:50 PM
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IosPlayer - No, it is not.

The VPC-1 uses the RM3II, while the MP7SE employs the RHIII.

If what you supposed was correct, then you could virtually get a VPC-1 plus all the electronics for $50 less than the VPC-1.

Here's a link describing and illustrating the various Kawai actions: Kawai Actions

The RHIII looks to be all plastic.

Last edited by DuvSliders; 10/11/18 05:55 PM.

I never metaphor I didn't like.
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: DuvSliders] #2771577
10/11/18 05:56 PM
10/11/18 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by DuvSliders
IosPlayer - No, it is not.

The VPC-1 uses the RM3II, while the MP7SE employs the RHIII.

If what you supposed was correct, then you could virtually get a VPC-1 plus all the electronics for $50 less than the VPC-1.

Indeed. The ES8 and MP7SE share the same action and its plastic keys...hence why IOSplayer felt the slightly inferiority in that RHIII

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771579
10/11/18 06:01 PM
10/11/18 06:01 PM
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Thanks DuvSliders and jamiecw, I googled them. No similarity whatsoever! Now I'd like to try the VPC1!

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771585
10/11/18 06:17 PM
10/11/18 06:17 PM
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Paul Mann Offline OP
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I just got a call from Sweetwater. They said, since I am having so much trouble with the keyboard, they are willing to
give me a refund and repair this keyboard and resell it as a demo. So it looks like Sweetwater is living up to their moto,
of providing the best customer support in the business.

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771588
10/11/18 06:24 PM
10/11/18 06:24 PM
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Good, Paul. Thanks for the info. Please let us know what keyboard you buy to replace it. I'll be buying when I'm sure there's something reliable in a slab that works somewhat like an acoustic action.

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.... ;-)


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771589
10/11/18 06:27 PM
10/11/18 06:27 PM
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Quote
Unfortunately, there is no way we would be able to take a return on something that was sold nearly a year ago.

Quote
So it looks like Sweetwater is living up to their moto, of providing the best customer support in the business.


After a lot of complaining, an initial refusal to deal with it satisfactorily, and someone on their end eventually realizing that this thread here wasn't doing any favours for their image.

None of these things should be necessary to get something like this dealt with, in my opinion. Is that really the best customer support in the business?


If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
We got both kinds of music: Country and Western!
Casio Celviano AP-650
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771590
10/11/18 06:29 PM
10/11/18 06:29 PM
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The keyboard expert at Sweetwater recommended that I look at the Yamaha 515, a new release,
with new action with wood keys and way better piano sounds. The Yamaha CP4 replacement is
not available yet.

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771617
10/11/18 07:25 PM
10/11/18 07:25 PM
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Yes, a win for the good guy!
Originally Posted by Paul Mann
I just got a call from Sweetwater. They said, since I am having so much trouble with the keyboard, they are willing to
give me a refund and repair this keyboard ...

And a nasty surprise for someone else
Originally Posted by Paul Mann
... and resell it as a demo.

Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771618
10/11/18 07:26 PM
10/11/18 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Mann
The keyboard expert at Sweetwater recommended that I look at the Yamaha 515, a new release,
with new action with wood keys and way better piano sounds. The Yamaha CP4 replacement is
not available yet.


It's good that they decided to give you a refund. To be honest Kawai is more at fault here. But I'm glad that sweetwater helped resolve this situation. They just went up in my book.

The P-515 from what I've been able to gather would be a very good piano. The CP4 is excellent as well but a little outdated especially when you compare its specs to those of the P-515. An update for the CP4 is due but I don't think anyone knows when it will happen. Probably sometime in 2019.


Yamaha P-125, Roland GO:Piano, Pianoteq 6, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Kawai MP7SE Key Switches Going Bad Again [Re: Paul Mann] #2771651
10/11/18 09:51 PM
10/11/18 09:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 34
Michigan
DuvSliders Offline
Full Member
DuvSliders  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 34
Michigan
Originally Posted by Paul Mann
The keyboard expert at Sweetwater recommended that I look at the Yamaha 515, a new release,
with new action with wood keys and way better piano sounds. The Yamaha CP4 replacement is
not available yet.


Who's the "keyboard expert" at Sweetwater? The guy I've been talking to there purports to not having heard of any issues with the new MP7SE and MP11SE.


I never metaphor I didn't like.
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