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Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX #2769269
10/03/18 09:39 AM
10/03/18 09:39 AM
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Ashamaan Offline OP
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Hello, Piano World. I am new.

I am 30, engaged to a violinist and we've been thinking of gettng me a Piano. I looked about and decided on a Digital Piano for a start. May be a GOOD Upright Accoustic later.

I have found these following to be acceptable but can't make a choice. Some of the prices include Taxes in India. So they might be a little higher than what you normally see.

Yamaha P125 ($810)

Yamaha YDP-143 ($1100)

Yamaha CLP 330 USED ($450)

Casio PX 870 ($1090)

I am not keen on Roland but... RP302 at approx. $1050 is probably within my budget too.

My question. For the prices given (I imagine some a askew from your expected prices), which one of these is a good choice. Even the USED one is in fairly good condition.

My primary considerations...
1) Good Action/key weight.

I hear the Casio is pretty toe to toe with Yamaha on this. Roland. Not so much.

2) Sound quality and Speaker Quality.
The Casio provides 256 note, Yamahas 192. Are they still worth it? What about the speakers on them?

3) Additional features to keep it spicy. While this is not absolutely necessary. But would be nice. Like the DGX660 has so many voices and lessons.

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Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2769325
10/03/18 12:02 PM
10/03/18 12:02 PM
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It's subjective, but most would probably say Casio action beats Yamaha GHS (P125, YDP143) or Roland's Ivory Feel G (RP302) but not necessarily as good as Yamaha or Roland's higher end actions. Though you mentioned the DGX660, and coincidentally, I played one last week and thought it felt better than GHS actions I'd played in the past, But as I said, there's a lot of subjectivity to this too.

192 and 256 figures are practically meaningless, don't worry about them. For piano alone, most of the time, even 32 is enough.

Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2769327
10/03/18 12:03 PM
10/03/18 12:03 PM
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spanishbuddha Offline
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Roland FP30 or 50. Yes I read the OP post.

Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2769358
10/03/18 03:16 PM
10/03/18 03:16 PM
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huaidongxi Offline
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have no idea what yamaha puts into their pianos for the Indian market, but here in the u.s., the sound library for non-european instruments in yamaha's is very limited, with some sounds available from them at extra cost. casio, o.t.o.h., even for the stuff marketed in western countries, has a generous sound library for non western instruments. this might not make a difference for you, and yamaha might be putting different programming into your region's pianos, but if other instrument sounds are useful you should probably verify what your candidates have.

do you have experience on acoustic pianos ? this can make a difference in how simulated actions feel. pianists who've played mostly acoustic pianos have very different preferences on what they like in action/sound response. the only comparable digital piano actions are also the heaviest, and there too the preferences between individuals are extremely varied.

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Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2769379
10/03/18 05:09 PM
10/03/18 05:09 PM
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Hi, Ashamaan, I looked into the clp330 and it looks like a great value at $450. Good piano sound, lines in and out, midi, usb, split and layering ( if I recall correctly) and basic recorder. Also, you can probably resell it for almost the same when you step up.

If you want to really have some fun, take some of the extra money, buy a used iPad and explore the iOS platform. The apps are inexpensive, or free, provide a world of sounds, including all ethnicities, the recording platforms as little as $7 or free and far beyond the two track recording on the 330.

PM me if you want specifics. Happy to guide you. It is total fun, cutting edge technology and affordable. But definitely a thumbs up for the 330 as a beginning dp.


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B, Kawai MP11se, Casio AT5
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2769389
10/03/18 06:05 PM
10/03/18 06:05 PM
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Charles Cohen Online content
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If you want a digital _piano_, and don't care about non-piano "features", I'd pick the Casio PX-870 over the rest.

It has the current-generation Casio action, an OK piano-sound generator (with string resonance and continuous damper pedal), and four speakers (12-cm woofer + 4-cm tweeter per channel, 20 watts per channel).

It _doesn't_ have a large selection of sounds -- there are only 19. If you want more, you can use the "MIDI-over-USB" connection, and control computer-based instrument sounds from the PX-870 keyboard. There's a metronome, but no built-in drum rhythms, and no auto-chording or auto-accompaniment.

I may be biased -- I like my PX-350 (but it's been "improved" with computer-generated piano sounds, and a powerful loudspeaker).

I don't know how much the Yamaha DGX-650 or DGX-660 costs, in India. They have the Yamaha GHS action (IMHO, not as good as the Casio), and lots of sounds, drum rhythms, auto-chording, etc. They might be worth looking at. A Casio PX-350 or PX-360 would be similar.

For practical use, any "polyphony" over 64 should be enough (unless you're playing Liszt or Rachmaninoff). Everything you're looking at is OK, I think.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: anotherscott] #2769399
10/03/18 06:55 PM
10/03/18 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Though you mentioned the DGX660, and coincidentally, I played one last week and thought it felt better than GHS actions I'd played in the past, But as I said, there's a lot of subjectivity to this too.


I felt the same way about the DGX-660 v. P-115. My thought at the time was that the DGX may have a heavier, more solid keyframe, which translates to the feel of the action.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Charles Cohen] #2769896
10/05/18 05:34 PM
10/05/18 05:34 PM
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Ashamaan Offline OP
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First of all.. I wasn't expecting this Forum to be this active that I would get so many answers. This is great..!

Originally Posted by anotherscott
It's subjective, but most would probably say Casio action beats Yamaha GHS (P125, YDP143) or Roland's Ivory Feel G (RP302) but not necessarily as good as Yamaha or Roland's higher end actions.
.

Yes. I was told that by many and heard it from a lot of YouTube pianists. And I really cannot invest into a new Yamaha CLP-5xx or 6xx DP.
I was bent on the DGX660 for the longest time. But I don't know if I will really use the extra features in it.

On that matter.. DGX660 vs Casio PX 870. Thoughts? They are nearly same price.
Honestly.. if I am paying $1000... I would rather that the money was being on the "piano" traits. Like the Key action, Sound and Quality. DGX660 is for $1000 because of the extra features. And in the long term.. I don't think I will be happy with the thought of having invested $300 more over the P125 or PX-350 or the CLP-330 .. for some extra sounds and voices and features.

For pure piano.. even the P125 with some good Monitor headphones would be a fair choice. The only reason I am consider the PX 870 is because of the 256 notes. Good Speakers. And some extra features that are not the ONLY thing it has over the P125.

Question. Is the Casio AiR Sound, comparable to the Yamaha VRM?

My reasoning though.. Might be flawed.

Originally Posted by huaidongxi
have no idea what ......................... individuals are extremely varied.


No. All pianos are same in India as anywhere else. As far as I know
Extra sounds are not too important. No.
Noope. No Piano experience at all. A little fumbling around on a keyboard. A "melodeon" as a kid. But very little. So.. this is, in all essence, my first piano.

Originally Posted by IosPlayer
Hi, Ashamaan, I looked into the clp330 and it looks like a great value at $450. Good piano sound, lines in and out, midi, usb, split and layering ( if I recall correctly) and basic recorder. Also, you can probably resell it for almost the same when you step up.

PM me if you want specifics. Happy to guide you. It is total fun, cutting edge technology and affordable. But definitely a thumbs up for the 330 as a beginning dp.


It wont resell for the same price. No. In fact.. I might have a hard time reselling it at all.
Thank You. I appreciate that.

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
If you want a digital _piano_, and don't care about non-piano "features", I'd pick the Casio PX-870 over the rest.
It has the current-generation Casio action, an OK piano-sound generator (with string resonance and continuous damper pedal), and four speakers (12-cm woofer + 4-cm tweeter per channel, 20 watts per channel).

I may be biased -- I like my PX-350 (but it's been "improved" with computer-generated piano sounds, and a powerful loudspeaker).


Cost of PX-350 is $710. I asked about 360M. They don't have it. But CAN get it.

If anyone is curious.. This is where I am getting my options. And prices.

Casio Online Retailer

&avaliable=[1,0]&sort=highprice]Yamaha Online Retailer

The Casio one keeps a good number of Roland, Kurzweil & Thomann too.

Anything that is prices above Rs. 79000 is out of my set budget. Unless the deal is really good. I am not willing to go beyond that.
They have a CLP-930 for Rs. 92000 ($1230 approx)

Last edited by Ashamaan; 10/05/18 05:36 PM.
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2770496
10/08/18 08:14 AM
10/08/18 08:14 AM
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For the non-gigging home pianist not interested in bells and whistles I think the best choice is Korg C1 AIR in the US$ price range specified. Despite the impressive features of the Privia PX-870, the Korg sounds and feels better to me. However, international price and availability are an important factor, and I can't help you there.

Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: moleskincrusher] #2770719
10/08/18 09:59 PM
10/08/18 09:59 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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halherta Offline
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Originally Posted by moleskincrusher
For the non-gigging home pianist not interested in bells and whistles I think the best choice is Korg C1 AIR in the US$ price range specified. Despite the impressive features of the Privia PX-870, the Korg sounds and feels better to me. However, international price and availability are an important factor, and I can't help you there.


After buying the Korg C1 AIR I returned it 2 weeks later. At least 2 keys had scratchy broken noise from day one. Based on my experience I cannot recommend the Korg C1 AIR ($1399). A Roland FP-90 or a Yamaha P-515 are much better and have superior actions to Korg's RH3 for a bit more money. In addition Korg C1 Air's polyphony is rated at 120. But because the piano samples use 4 oscillators per note, you end up with an effective polyphony of 30 according to the manual. When I played the Piano, polyphony did not to seem to be an issue, but still a digital piano with an effective polyphony of 30 according to the manual is not good in 2018. The Piano sounds were very nice though.

Casio DPs will generally have more bells and whistles than the similarly priced lower end Yamahas (P-125/115/45) and will sound better. Having said that, the Yamaha's have better quality control and as such are generally more durable and will last longer. The Roland FP-30 has got to be the King of low end DPs as it has the best action and sound in its class/ price range and very good quality control. Though in my experience, Yamaha's quality control is still a tad bit better than Roland's.



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2770723
10/08/18 10:24 PM
10/08/18 10:24 PM
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Fleer Offline
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Call me crazy but I love the lower end Yamaha (GHS) action. It’s so much lighter than their GH or GH3, probably because of the cantilever-instead-of-pivot approach.
This makes it ideal for Bach as well as synths (or sampled strings).
And it appears to be rock solid, carrying 5 to 10 years warranties.

Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Fleer] #2770775
10/09/18 08:26 AM
10/09/18 08:26 AM
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halherta Offline
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Originally Posted by Fleer
Call me crazy but I love the lower end Yamaha (GHS) action. It’s so much lighter than their GH or GH3, probably because of the cantilever-instead-of-pivot approach.
This makes it ideal for Bach as well as synths (or sampled strings).
And it appears to be rock solid, carrying 5 to 10 years warranties.


I actually happen to agree with this. I too prefer Yamaha's GHS action (found in P-125 and other entry level DPs) over Roland's PHA-IV standard action found in the FP-30; primarily because it is lighter. Having said that, in my opinion, the PHA-IV action is closer to a real acoustic piano action



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: moleskincrusher] #2770911
10/09/18 07:13 PM
10/09/18 07:13 PM
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India
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Ashamaan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by moleskincrusher
For the non-gigging home pianist not interested in bells and whistles I think the best choice is Korg C1 AIR in the US$ price range specified. Despite the impressive features of the Privia PX-870, the Korg sounds and feels better to me. However, international price and availability are an important factor, and I can't help you there.


Korg C1 is definitely out of my budget. I saw the US prices and it's $1300+.


Originally Posted by moleskincrusher
For the non-gigging home pianist not interested in bells and whistles I think the best choice is Korg C1 AIR in the US$ price range specified. Despite the impressive features of the Privia PX-870, the Korg sounds and feels better to me. However, international price and availability are an important factor, and I can't help you there.


Korg C1 is definitely over the budget.

NOTE: Appreciatively. For anyone making suggestions out of the choices mentioned in the first post. I would suggest my budget is somewhere near $800-$850 for the prices you must know (in USA/EU). (India adds 18-24% Tax to that price. Which brings it to my ~$1000 budget)
EDIT: And...It's $1000 by your prices if it's a REALLY good piano significantly better than anything mentioned yet.. Which will make it $1200-1250 here.



Originally Posted by halherta
A Roland FP-90 or a Yamaha P-515 are much better and have superior actions to Korg's RH3 for a bit more money

Casio DPs will generally have more bells and whistles than the similarly priced lower end Yamahas (P-125/115/45) and will sound better. Having said that, the Yamaha's have better quality control and as such are generally more durable and will last longer. The Roland FP-30 has got to be the King of low end DPs as it has the best action and sound in its class/ price range and very good quality control. Though in my experience, Yamaha's quality control is still a tad bit better than Roland's.

FP-90 not available. P-515 is immensely out of budget. Believe me I would love to have a DP with NWX action. But I can't.
I can go as high as may be some of the CLP-5XX series. But that would be a over double the budget I am thinking. Unless CLP 5XX offer something substantially more than the DPs mentioned in the first post.. I cannot think of such an expenditure. CLP-525 here is for $1680

Are you suggesting that given the choice between Casio & Yamaha on a given day for the low-mid end range of DPs ... Yamaha would usually be a better choice?
I thought that too. Since Yamaha actually makes Grand/Acoustic Pianos ..unlike Casio, Roland and Korg. But I don't know if I should be judging them like that.


Also.. Could someone please answer whether the Casio AiR Sound is something like the Yamaha VRM.

Last edited by Ashamaan; 10/09/18 07:17 PM.
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2770919
10/09/18 07:53 PM
10/09/18 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashamaan

NOTE: Appreciatively. For anyone making suggestions out of the choices mentioned in the first post. I would suggest my budget is somewhere near $800-$850 for the prices you must know (in USA/EU). (India adds 18-24% Tax to that price. Which brings it to my ~$1000 budget)
EDIT: And...It's $1000 by your prices if it's a REALLY good piano significantly better than anything mentioned yet.. Which will make it $1200-1250 here.


Ashaman, I was merely addressing moleskincrusher's recommendation and intended to say that in my opinion the Korg C1 air is not a good choice.....especially at such a high price. In the second paragraph I addressed your concern about the differences between Yamaha and Casio DPs in your price range and recommended the Yamaha.

In your price range there, really aren't that many DPs that I can recommend.
My three top recommendations would be: Roland FP-30, Yamaha P-125 and the Yamaha P-45.

No clue about the Casio AiR Sound. Sorry.



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2770928
10/09/18 08:28 PM
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If you can afford for the Yamaha CLP-525, by all means go for it. The GH3 is superior to the GHS (in the P-125) and I doubt that anyone will prefer the latter to the former. The CLP-525 also has a significantly superior speaker system and the pedals are also better. So yes, the CLP-525 does offer substantially more than the P-125, as the price would suggest.

Last edited by Beowulf; 10/09/18 08:30 PM.

Yamaha Clavinova CLP-645 | Garritan CFX Concert Grand
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2770934
10/09/18 10:11 PM
10/09/18 10:11 PM
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Also be sure to have a look at Steve Coffery's Digital Piano Buying Guide (A Piano Teacher’s Perspective) . https://steveescoffery.com/digital-piano-buying-guide-from-piano-teacher/
Some really good reviews / recommendations on buying digital pianos, especially for beginners.



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Beowulf] #2770937
10/09/18 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Beowulf
If you can afford for the Yamaha CLP-525, by all means go for it. The GH3 is superior to the GHS (in the P-125) and I doubt that anyone will prefer the latter to the former.

I do.
As I said.

Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Fleer] #2770957
10/10/18 01:51 AM
10/10/18 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleer
I do.
As I said.


Missed out that part. Anyway, the GH3 is closer in its feeling to the NWX (which is what TS would have gone for if he had the budget) as compared to the GHS.

Last edited by Beowulf; 10/10/18 01:52 AM.

Yamaha Clavinova CLP-645 | Garritan CFX Concert Grand
Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2770989
10/10/18 06:52 AM
10/10/18 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ashamaan
On that matter.. DGX660 vs Casio PX 870. Thoughts?

I discussed the actions earlier. As for sound, while I generally prefer Yamaha, I haven't heard the PX870, which is supposed to have a better piano sound than previous models.

Originally Posted by Ashamaan
The only reason I am consider the PX 870 is because of the 256 notes

To re-emphasize what I said about this earlier, this has no importance in this situation. Forget about it.

Originally Posted by Ashamaan
Question. Is the Casio AiR Sound, comparable to the Yamaha VRM?

VRM is Yamaha's term for their method of emulating the various resonances of a piano. AiR is Casio's term for their entire method or piano sound generation, which includes their method of emulating the various resonances of a piano. Bottom line is that both brands include some method to simulate those resonances. Whether one does a better job than the other, I couldn't say... but even if one has better sounding resonance than the other, that wouldn't necessarily mean that that's the one that sounds better overall.

Originally Posted by Ashamaan
Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
I may be biased -- I like my PX-350 (but it's been "improved" with computer-generated piano sounds, and a powerful loudspeaker).

Cost of PX-350 is $710

Keep in mind he's recommending it with a different sound and different speakers... In that context, you could do the same thing with a PX-160 (the actions are the same). If you were thinking about using its internal piano sound and internal speakers, I think the Yamahas sound better. (Again, action could be a different question.)

As for Korg, the D1 would be the model more in your budget, and is worth looking at as well. I haven't played that model, but based on others I've played, I think I'd like its sound better than Casio and its action better than the GHS Yamahas, so it might be a good "split the difference" option. (Though again, I haven't heard the piano sound of the new Casio 870.)



Re: Key Action, Sound & Value : Yamaha Digitals vs Casio PX [Re: Ashamaan] #2771065
10/10/18 01:23 PM
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just wondering why you are not mentioning Kawai? The ES110 is in your price range ($729), as are other Kawai DP's.


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