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Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2771052
10/10/18 12:15 PM
10/10/18 12:15 PM
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Colin Miles Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
Guys I've read specs in more details and it seems LX-706 is LX-7 replacement and it also has slide keyboard cover so the function keys and display can be covered by it.

Yes - that makes sense as the 708 replaces the LX17. Just hoping that the sound really is an improvement. Their video demo didn't seem that good quality. The sound was different but really didn't think much of the demonstration piece. If it was supposed to show that the guy could play fast, then yes, but...

As to the speed at which one should upgrade, well it depends on what you want and your priorities. I have a suspicion that we are getting to the stage where all the big improvements in digitals have already it taken place, in particular regarding key and pedal actions, polyphony and recording, and that getting ever closer to the sound of acoustics is going to prove a very slow, if not impossible process. So this could mean future upgrades could involve quite small improvements and lots of marketing hype of which the new Roland range could be a beginning.


Roland LX7

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Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771060
10/10/18 01:09 PM
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@Nordomus

That is an interesting thread you linked to, thank you. I had no idea Roland uses Grease in their actions. Is this a new thing? Perhaps beginning with the PHA50 action? Or have they used grease in their older actions as well? I was beginning to strongly favor Roland particularly for their actions (edit: and for their solid system stability as well), but this information has turned me off.

About the new models, they look interesting, but it seems to me like the core specs haven't changed all that much. The modeling engines sound similar to the old ones (except for the new names, they sound spectacular lol). The new action looks like the old PHA50 action, just with a longer key. Calling the new action "Hybrid Grand Keyboard" evokes images of the competitions' models which use real grand actions, and I think that is a little bit misleading if you ask me.

I guess the best thing about this is that the older models might get a price reduction after the new ones go to sale?

Last edited by Grazilerimba; 10/10/18 01:15 PM.
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Grazilerimba] #2771063
10/10/18 01:19 PM
10/10/18 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
Calling the new action "Hybrid Grand Keyboard" evokes images of the competitions' models which use real grand actions, and I think that is a little bit misleading if you ask me.


Can't really blame Roland here. Casio also calls one of their standard DP actions "Grand Hybrid Action."

Edit: Actually, they only call it that on some of their YT videos. It's actually the "Natural Grand Hammer Action" keyboard, which...at least doesn't have "Hybrid" in the name, even though the actual piano line does? smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Grazilerimba] #2771069
10/10/18 01:33 PM
10/10/18 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
@Nordomus

That is an interesting thread you linked to, thank you. I had no idea Roland uses Grease in their actions. Is this a new thing? Perhaps beginning with the PHA50 action? Or have they used grease in their older actions as well? I was beginning to strongly favor Roland particularly for their actions (edit: and for their solid system stability as well), but this information has turned me off.

AFAIK they always used grease.
It's used mostly in 3 places, and I'm 90% sure it's the same in the new keyboard:
https://imgur.com/a/d1oyJRz
The worst are 1 and 2. In 1 there is plastic pin on which key moves and on 2 there is "basket" with grease in it to smooth out key leverage and in both places there is problem with grease moving. In 1 it's worse because once grease moves it can't go back on it's own, on 2 it does go back because of gravity(grease is less dense). I didn't have much problems with 3.
Still, maybe they improved it somehow, I'm really curious and I'm anxious to try those pianos out.

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Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771094
10/10/18 02:22 PM
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New on YouTube today:

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771101
10/10/18 02:33 PM
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Thanks for that, really like the tone, although I always liked how Roland sounds smile

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Doug M.] #2771102
10/10/18 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
New on YouTube today


Hoho, I see they took pains to get the silhouettes just right. Which unnamed grands could these possibly be? smile

[Linked Image]

Less trivially, I do think the control panel has gotten much more refined and elegant.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771103
10/10/18 02:37 PM
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Also about the price I've found this: http://musicasatiendas.com/es/pianos-digitales/6558-roland-lx-706-piano-digital.html
So around 3000 euros for LX 706 CB version.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Doug M.] #2771111
10/10/18 02:58 PM
10/10/18 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
New on YouTube today:


Insensitive soul that I am, it still sounds like a digital. I suspect the perceived realism will be apparent through the speaker system . . . .like it is with the LX17


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: peterws] #2771117
10/10/18 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws

Insensitive soul that I am, it still sounds like a digital. I suspect the perceived realism will be apparent through the speaker system . . . .like it is with the LX17

If Roland at least gave the option for some sampled instruments or sample/model hybrids, they would appeal to more buyers. I don't know if it's a cost issue or merely an issue of stubbornness.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771119
10/10/18 03:19 PM
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Well bodging some measuring on the action pictures on roland's site I'm getting 26.5cm for the whites, the novus is 26...

Also looking at the marketing guff (which amusingly, on the UK site at least, has 'HP603' in parts of the blurb where evidently someone manged the copypasta but forgot the find and replace grin) it appears the LX708 has a TRS style key vibration going on, seems perhaps excessive given the fairly hefty speaker system. Headphones maybe?


Still finding the sound a little... thin??... in the p/mp mid-midhigh range, though the 'european' piano sounds better. I'm not sure it helps that roland seems to record many of it's demos with minimal/no reverb on which is fine as a setting for speakers in a room, probably not the way most will listen to these demos. Still, the bass sounds great as usual and the responsiveness/resonances doing well also.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771124
10/10/18 03:26 PM
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My guess it is because they don't have any acoustic piano of their own to model from. I do have to say I think over youtube the sound does sound synthetic. But I have to also say that playing one of the Roland modeled pianos is a whole different experience. If I was only playing for other people's enjoyment I might narrow my choice down to Yamaha or Kawai digital pianos. It's nice to have choices. I'm interested to try the new LX706 to see if I notice a difference with the longer pivot point.

Back to the modelling of the piano. I really do enjoy playing the Roland's. They seem to be alive when playing them.

my 0.02 cents worth


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771129
10/10/18 03:35 PM
10/10/18 03:35 PM
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How come modeled pianos still sound so bad in the rolands?
I don’t know if editing will make it better but gosh, it sounds hideous, like a midi keyboard.

The current fp90/lx17/hp605 all have same engine and it seems in the demos the new gen is not much different


P155
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Jitin] #2771136
10/10/18 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jitin
How come modeled pianos still sound so bad in the rolands?
I don’t know if editing will make it better but gosh, it sounds hideous, like a midi keyboard.

The current fp90/lx17/hp605 all have same engine and it seems in the demos the new gen is not much different

We must have heard different demos.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2771159
10/10/18 04:34 PM
10/10/18 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nordomus

We must have heard different demos.

Agreed


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: arc7urus] #2771178
10/10/18 05:13 PM
10/10/18 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
TIt is a pity that Roland has not to followed the artist's impression (check the section "Greater focus, fewer distractions" on Roland's LX700 page) and decided to put the controls on the fallboard. These new models would look amazing if all those knobs were out of sight.



Lack of a key cover is a non-issue to me. I like the controls within reach while playing so that adjustments can be made on the fly, as is done here at 2:40 and 4:04:

https://youtu.be/5l7U6XZ82vY?t=152

You can't do that with the controls at the cheek block area. The controls do not present an eyesore to me.


Last edited by Grandman; 10/10/18 05:18 PM.
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Groove On] #2771188
10/10/18 05:49 PM
10/10/18 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Groove On

- The Power On feature using the lid is pretty cool.


This seems like one of those "slap forehead" moments for every other DP out there, it seems like such an obvious feature. Now I wish my piano had it frown

Originally Posted by Groove On

- USB port is in the front? Is that good or bad?


On my DP the USB ports are under the keyboard a good ways back. I need to get on my hands and knees to retrieve the USB stick when I want to move my recordings to the computer. I feel like an easily accessible port is a win.

All in all, it seems like Roland spent a fair amount of time thinking about the usability of the piano, which is great. I'll have to get up to the store and try one out when they come in.



Currently learning: Beethoven "Easy" Sonata Op 49 No 2, JS Bach WTC Prelude No 2 in C minor
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771254
10/10/18 10:19 PM
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But the controls are bad in that place mostly because of this: https://youtu.be/HGt79E2-h6o

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2771288
10/11/18 02:35 AM
10/11/18 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
But the controls are bad in that place mostly because of this: https://youtu.be/HGt79E2-h6o


April 1st?


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Bambers] #2771289
10/11/18 02:47 AM
10/11/18 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Bambers


Still finding the sound a little... thin??... in the p/mp mid-midhigh range


Hi Bambers,

This is what I think every time I hear YouTube videos of the FP90: I hear thin mids / highs. Didn't hear that whilst playing the LX17 through speakers though. Perhaps when sat in front of 8 speakers all pointing in different directions, the effect is different..

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Grandman] #2771290
10/11/18 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandman
Originally Posted by arc7urus
TIt is a pity that Roland has not to followed the artist's impression (check the section "Greater focus, fewer distractions" on Roland's LX700 page) and decided to put the controls on the fallboard. These new models would look amazing if all those knobs were out of sight.



Lack of a key cover is a non-issue to me. I like the controls within reach while playing so that adjustments can be made on the fly, as is done here at 2:40 and 4:04:

https://youtu.be/5l7U6XZ82vY?t=152

You can't do that with the controls at the cheek block area. The controls do not present an eyesore to me.



I guess it depends on whether you like to play straight piano as if on an acoustic upright; on the other hand, one may prefer to play like a Yamaha CVP i.e., changing sounds, mixing sounds together, using the instrument more like an arranger.

Personally, I like controls front and centre, but I understand those who like minimalist approach. Would be nice if there were an optional cover to slide over the control interface, but there's always next-time for Roland..


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771291
10/11/18 02:53 AM
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I'm very interested what are actual differences between 706 and 708 damper pedal and keyboard. Not enough details in specs.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2771312
10/11/18 05:10 AM
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[quote][/quote]
Originally Posted by Nordomus
I'm very interested what are actual differences between 706 and 708 damper pedal and keyboard. Not enough details in specs.

I think you will find the main difference between the 706 and the 708 is in the speakers. pedal and keyboard seem to be the same.

Detailed spec here - scroll down to the bottom for the individual specs
Roland 700 series


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771315
10/11/18 05:25 AM
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I've read those specs in detail and descriptions and no, they are not the same. There is different technology for damper pedal on both LX 706 and LX 708. As for keyboard they write that on LX 708 you get some kind of vibration feedback on keyboard, even with headphones on.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771320
10/11/18 05:44 AM
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Keyboard
LX 708 "Hybrid Grand Keyboard: Wood and Plastic Hybrid Structure, with Escapement, Ebony/Ivory Feel and Haptic Key Vibration (88 keys)"
LX 706 "Hybrid Grand Keyboard: Wood and Plastic Hybrid Structure, with Escapement and Ebony/Ivory Feel (88 keys)"
Damper pedal
LX 708 "Responsive Damper Action Pedal (Damper pedal: capable of continuous detection"
LX 706 "Progressive Damper Action Pedal (Damper pedal: capable of continuous detection"

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2771321
10/11/18 05:57 AM
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Quote
Advanced techniques aren’t limited to the keyboard. Roland’s Responsive Damper mechanism on the LX708 accurately recreates the detailed damper pedal response of a grand piano. This lets you channel the sympathetic resonance of the piano strings for a dramatic and lustrous sound. Lighter at first, the pedal’s resistance increases as you press, before becoming lighter again upon release. Meanwhile, when a piece requires a lighter touch, use a more accurate ‘half-pedaling’ response, with the damper pedal depth allowing subtle control of tone decay.


As usual you can read about the specs and the intention until you are blue in the face. Newer isn't necessarily better. There is no substitute for playing the real thing.

The 708 keyboard is the only one in the range that has haptic feedback.

Looks like these are shipping in the UK in December.

The strange one is this release so soon after the release of the GP609 Grand Piano flagship. I rather assumed that the tech would remain stable for another two years but now within a few months, the flagship has in Roland's opinion an inferior sound engine, keyboard and pedals. I suspect a V2.0 must be on the way.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771326
10/11/18 06:07 AM
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This responsive damper seems like it has the same features as Progressive Damper Action Pedal had.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Doug M.] #2771327
10/11/18 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandman
Originally Posted by arc7urus
TIt is a pity that Roland has not to followed the artist's impression (check the section "Greater focus, fewer distractions" on Roland's LX700 page) and decided to put the controls on the fallboard. These new models would look amazing if all those knobs were out of sight.


Lack of a key cover is a non-issue to me. I like the controls within reach while playing so that adjustments can be made on the fly, as is done here at 2:40 and 4:04:

https://youtu.be/5l7U6XZ82vY?t=152

You can't do that with the controls at the cheek block area. The controls do not present an eyesore to me.


Sure! In that video the DP is being used not as an acoustic piano but as a stage piano. If changing settings during performance is part of your use case, then a DP such as the RD2000, MP11 or Kronos, and to some extent, the FP90, would be more appropriate. These DPs are designed for the performer to change registrations and other parameters while performing. But the LX models and most cabinet DPs are not designed for that purpose. DPs like the LX 700 are marketed as acoustic replacements. So, this is not about the controls being useful or not, but about the community of users that Roland intends to target. And from a practical perspective, I am not sure how easy is to press one of those buttons inadvertently while playing due to the absence of the fallboard.

The paradox is that Roland decided to include a number of features on the LX 708 to make it look and feel like an acoustic. This includes the fallboard/hinged keyboard lid that serves the only purpose of making it look like an acoustic (the other "lower" LX models do not have such keyboard cover but do have a control panel cover). But with that acoustic-like hinged lid, Roland was unable to add a control panel cover. So, the LX 708 ends up being the "acoustic replacement" that looks less like an acoustic...

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2771328
10/11/18 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
This responsive damper seems like it has the same features as Progressive Damper Action Pedal had.


Not to me from that description. Progressive Damper Action sounds like it works in a quite linear way, the harder you press the greater the damper effect. Responsive damper seems to be attempting something else, a quite linear and subtle effect with gentle depression but a different more pronounced half pedal effect if you take the pedal quickly to half distance.

I guess all that extra info is being fed back into the piano model.

I haven't played enough super high end grand pianos to know how that makes a difference.

I am curious about this piano I must admit.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2771333
10/11/18 06:46 AM
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But I've played pianos with the pedal from LX 706 and they work exactly how you descripe LX 708 should work.

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