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Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2773349
10/17/18 12:49 PM
10/17/18 12:49 PM
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Nordomus Offline
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No it's not the only demo, here is slower short one which is at least showing awesome resonances https://youtu.be/niM22lW9FzY
But seriously previous modeling engine is "terrible" for you??

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Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2773354
10/17/18 01:04 PM
10/17/18 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
No it's not the only demo, here is slower short one which is at least showing awesome resonances https://youtu.be/niM22lW9FzY

It's strange that all the videos I've seen so far seem to be really weak on the bass notes. It could be that the performers are being extra-gentle on the low notes, but I haven't noticed any good growls yet.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2773359
10/17/18 01:19 PM
10/17/18 01:19 PM
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Nordomus Offline
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Those recordings are strange, bass notes were really good before so that shouldn't got worse.
https://youtu.be/_JBHAEl0tes
So far this is my favorite sample(concert grand one): https://www.bauer-music.de/roland-lx-708-ch-digitalpiano-charcoal-schwarz

Last edited by Nordomus; 10/17/18 01:22 PM.
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2773360
10/17/18 01:20 PM
10/17/18 01:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 118
Warsaw, Poland
AlphaBravoCharlie Offline
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
No it's not the only demo, here is slower short one which is at least showing awesome resonances https://youtu.be/niM22lW9FzY
But seriously previous modeling engine is "terrible" for you??


I'm quite precise in my writing. The engine itself is great when it comes to recreating piano behaviour, dynamics, but PIANO TONE is terrible. Very 'plastic' and unnatural.


Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6 | Behringer UMC202HD | Takstar PRO82
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Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2773369
10/17/18 02:26 PM
10/17/18 02:26 PM
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I've noticed something very troubling in LX 708 specs, piano designer is missing Damper Resonance parameter.And there is no ambience effect as well.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2773402
10/17/18 04:30 PM
10/17/18 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie

I'm quite precise in my writing. The engine itself is great when it comes to recreating piano behaviour, dynamics, but PIANO TONE is terrible. Very 'plastic' and unnatural.


Yes, I find that it's ironic that I get the most realistic piano experience from the DP with the least realistic timbre.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2773410
10/17/18 05:00 PM
10/17/18 05:00 PM
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South Wales
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Colin Miles Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
They are avaible to order but not in stock yet. They are scheduled for december unfortunately. Been talking to several shops about this.


They have now changed it. When I looked they said 'in stock'. Guess they were jumping the gun.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2773426
10/17/18 06:08 PM
10/17/18 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
[quote=Nordomus]No it's not the only demo, here is slower short one which is at least showing awesome resonances https://youtu.be/niM22lW9FzY
But seriously previous modeling engine is "terrible" for you??


I think the piano tone being characterized as "terrible" is very much exaggerated. Yes, modeled piano sound has not reached the plateau of being indistinguishable from acoustic piano tone. However, it is still very good and the new Roland sounds mimic the behavior and resonance of acoustic pianos more so than other DPs I've played. There is room for improvement and hopefully the new LX models will reflect that.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2773428
10/17/18 06:26 PM
10/17/18 06:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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@Nordomus

I'm planning to visit the Japan Musical Instrument Fair on Saturday. Assuming Roland exhibits the new LX-700 models, is there anything that you would like me to check?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2773485
10/18/18 12:34 AM
10/18/18 12:34 AM
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Nordomus Offline
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Thanks, kind of you for asking smile You could check out piano designer/resonance settings, if there is damper resonance parameter. Some comparison between LX 706 and LX 708 would be awesome as well. And overall I will anxiously your overall impressions.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2773492
10/18/18 01:01 AM
10/18/18 01:01 AM
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@Kawai James

I'd love to know how the new action compares to the PHA-50 in practise. It's very gracious of you to help us Roland fans! Well we're Kawai fans too!

Last edited by johnstaf; 10/18/18 01:02 AM.
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Frédéric L] #2773503
10/18/18 02:19 AM
10/18/18 02:19 AM
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Frédéric L
@Doug M. If you have a piece written for a Stephen Paulello Opus 102, 102 keys would be helful. wink


At 5 grand for a slab piano, I figure they can provide a full extra octave ;-) Give the composers a challenge!


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2773505
10/18/18 02:21 AM
10/18/18 02:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,104
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
They are now in stock in at least one UK store.
Roland LX700

Bit far away for me!


I would literally think of a 2.5 hour drive down there as a holiday---that store has most of my favourite instruments in one building.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Nordomus] #2773506
10/18/18 02:22 AM
10/18/18 02:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,104
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
Thanks, kind of you for asking smile You could check out piano designer/resonance settings, if there is damper resonance parameter. Some comparison between LX 706 and LX 708 would be awesome as well. And overall I will anxiously your overall impressions.


Wonder if they are going to offer an app to include extra settings?


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Grandman] #2773512
10/18/18 02:54 AM
10/18/18 02:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 118
Warsaw, Poland
AlphaBravoCharlie Offline
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Warsaw, Poland
Originally Posted by Grandman
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
[quote=Nordomus]No it's not the only demo, here is slower short one which is at least showing awesome resonances https://youtu.be/niM22lW9FzY
But seriously previous modeling engine is "terrible" for you??


I think the piano tone being characterized as "terrible" is very much exaggerated. Yes, modeled piano sound has not reached the plateau of being indistinguishable from acoustic piano tone. However, it is still very good and the new Roland sounds mimic the behavior and resonance of acoustic pianos more so than other DPs I've played. There is room for improvement and hopefully the new LX models will reflect that.


Once again: I distinguish piano behaviour, which indeed is very realistic in new Roland, from piano tone, or you might call it timbre, which is not. For me it's pretty far from being even OK. In other words: terrible 😊 I hope the improvement is significant in LX700 and will reach more affordable models soon.


Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6 | Behringer UMC202HD | Takstar PRO82
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Kawai James] #2773523
10/18/18 04:49 AM
10/18/18 04:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 571
South Wales
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Colin Miles Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2017
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South Wales
Originally Posted by Kawai James
@Nordomus

I'm planning to visit the Japan Musical Instrument Fair on Saturday. Assuming Roland exhibits the new LX-700 models, is there anything that you would like me to check?

Cheers,
James
x

Like any good rep you will check out the opposition and no doubt give a 'slightly' different evaluation to your bosses than you might to us. But that will be fine. If your wrist has recovered sufficiently to play, then maybe some idea of the improvement in the action will be worth hearing about.

Nordomus, the piano designer spec is exactly the same as the current LX range. Ambience is not part of that.

As for the sound, or timbre which is indeed a better description, my impression from the 'poor' samples so far is that it is closer to a 'real' acoustic but still not there. I suspect that we will have to wait for the next generation or more likely the one after that before we get to the point of being able to say that it sounds not modelled. In the meantime there are other areas where this modelled sound is already competing with acoustics. Namely the dynamic range and response. This is why I am relatively happy with my LX7 and if the newer LX range is even better in sound and action, and with more competitive pricing, these range will do well.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2773533
10/18/18 06:06 AM
10/18/18 06:06 AM
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Greenwich, London, United King...
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I think the Moonlight Sonata demo has very good musicality and the piano sound suits that piece or a virtuoso Bach Partita or perhaps gothic-baroque Liszt. It has the right amount of steely harpsichord brilliance for a high speed show-off piece. Totally unsuitable for Debussy, Ravel, Stevie Wonder or late night jazz though.

But that is what the Piano Designer is for. You can make a sound as sweet, as biting as mushy or as nasty as you like. That jazz / funk sound in the sound demo video is horrific to my ears but I don't play that kind of music. Horses for courses.

Does it compare to a £250,000 concert grand? Don't be silly but to my ears in terms of musicality it is more than good enough and wipes the floor with any except the finest well regulated uprights of a comparable price. heck uprights 3x the price.

All of that means nothing if it does not feel right to play. There are plenty of DPs in the market that sound authentic (why wouldn't they as they are merely playing back a recording) but I have got up within a minute as they are not very musical instruments.

I'm still delighted with my LX17 though so will skip this series unless it is a quantum leap forward in terms of musicality.

Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2773539
10/18/18 06:33 AM
10/18/18 06:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,104
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Originally Posted by Grandman
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
[quote=Nordomus]No it's not the only demo, here is slower short one which is at least showing awesome resonances https://youtu.be/niM22lW9FzY
But seriously previous modeling engine is "terrible" for you??


I think the piano tone being characterized as "terrible" is very much exaggerated. Yes, modeled piano sound has not reached the plateau of being indistinguishable from acoustic piano tone. However, it is still very good and the new Roland sounds mimic the behavior and resonance of acoustic pianos more so than other DPs I've played. There is room for improvement and hopefully the new LX models will reflect that.


Once again: I distinguish piano behaviour, which indeed is very realistic in new Roland, from piano tone, or you might call it timbre, which is not. For me it's pretty far from being even OK. In other words: terrible 😊 I hope the improvement is significant in LX700 and will reach more affordable models soon.


What I find interesting is that the experience of playing the LX17 (with the multi-speaker setup etc) is much more impressive than playing the LX7 or FP90---I think perhaps that the mediocre amplification systems on portable and middle range cabinet pianos don't do Roland's modeled sound any favours! For instance, I don't like YouTube recordings of the LX17 but remember vividly the playing experience being pretty good.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Doug M.] #2773554
10/18/18 07:40 AM
10/18/18 07:40 AM
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Posts: 571
South Wales
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Colin Miles Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Doug M.


What I find interesting is that the experience of playing the LX17 (with the multi-speaker setup etc) is much more impressive than playing the LX7 or FP90---I think perhaps that the mediocre amplification systems on portable and middle range cabinet pianos don't do Roland's modeled sound any favours! For instance, I don't like YouTube recordings of the LX17 but remember vividly the playing experience being pretty good.


I agree. I played the LX17 in the Roland factory here and it was quite a bit different from my LX7.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: New Roland Pianos [Re: Colin Miles] #2773627
10/18/18 12:13 PM
10/18/18 12:13 PM
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Posts: 118
Warsaw, Poland
AlphaBravoCharlie Offline
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Actually it doesn't sound so bad https://youtu.be/DLHG0lVhNeY


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