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Re: What To Learn? [Re: bennevis] #2771209
10/10/18 07:00 PM
10/10/18 07:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,665
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Finn1996
haha no I am not scared off, I'm actually loving all the responses, positive or negative, conversation is good! (shout out to dmd and Moo for being extra positive!). I'm realizing now that perhaps I should've better explained my approach and given a little more background on my goals and what I hope to achieve, so I will do that, since everyone seems to think my system looks terrible lol


First, I would like to say that I wasn't thinking this originally, but now after reading responses, although I do agree with basically everything posted, I'm also aware that there has to be a ton of bias from each poster (not necessarily a bad thing). I'm going with the assumption that everyone learns their own way, and since they learned that way, they will naturally think that that's the "best" or "only" way to do it. I kind of carry the same logic, as I want to develop my own method to teach others, after I prove that it works on myself. I also think there might be a lot of people here who were classically trained and they definitely might think that's the only way more than anyone. My goals in music are different from "the classical way", so if there are people who disagree with going against that way, I don't really know what to tell you lol.

Next, to anyone saying I need a teacher, I really don't think I do. I think I'm capable of learning on my own. I was thinking of seeing a teacher at some point down the road just to check to make sure I'm doing things right physically (posture, fingering, hand positioning, etc.). Other than the physical aspect of playing, I don't think I need a teacher. Why would I pay money for a teacher when I can use plenty of resources from online (Youtube, online PDF's, etc.) to compile my own "syllabus" that works for me personally? I've had vocal coaches and I find that teachers like to push their own view of things onto students, which is something I'm trying to avoid as a student. I think learning music and learning piano can be such a personal experience without a teacher. I'm not at all saying that having a teacher is bad, I think a lot of people could/will benefit from a teacher for sure, I just really don't have any interest in paying money and searching for the right teacher (just in case I find some and don't like them or what they teach or their teaching style), seems like a lot of time and money wasted on something I can just figure out myself and figure out a way that works best for me personally. I think if I need a teacher for a particular concept, I'm sure Youtube can give me all the help I need.

To those saying I need to play songs and gear my learning towards songs/pieces instead of learning music theory, I personally disagree.. strongly lol. I actually tried this first, and it didn't work for very long (but maybe I was trying things that were too hard lol). I'm a huge fan of C418's Minecraft Soundtrack, and I would love to be able to play every song from it. So, since everyone suggests learning by playing songs, thats what I tried to do. It was working, but overall, it was more frustrating than anything. Sure, now I can play a song or two from the Minecraft soundtrack, but I really wasn't LEARNING anything. I was just following along with the notes on a Youtube video. I was learning the song, but was I aware of the notes I was hitting? Not really. Was I paying attention to the chords I was playing? No. Was I paying attention to the RELATIONSHIPS between all the notes and all the chords? Literally not at all. I was literally just following someone elses playing, that's all. Learning songs is cool if that's all you want to do with music/piano. Learning songs is probably the last thing I'm trying to focus on, I'm trying to learn music theory by playing the piano (we'll get to this).

A lot of you are also saying that my practice routine looks like the most boring thing in existence and I will quit because of it. I don't really think so, but you all are entitled to your own opinions of course! Allow me to explain though. I thought learning songs was a boring and messy approach. My two reasons for this are: 1) You have to start off easy and slowly play harder and harder songs. Easy songs are boring. I don't want to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, I would rather just play scales. 2) Learning by playing songs doesn't always mean you will play songs you like, ESPECIALLY if you have a teacher! If I'm gonna learn by playing songs, I would want to play songs I know and love. I don't really want to play easy beginner nursery rhyme songs. I don't want to play Mozart's symphonies down the road. As far as songs go, I want to have the music theory knowledge to hear a song, then figure it out on my own. When you don't know music theory, and you're just learning it along the way, you learn things out of order just as they happen, that's way too disorganized for my taste. And when you're just learning songs, you have to go online and figure out the key, then you have to learn all the chords, etc. But if you already know music theory, you can figure the key out by the notes you hear, and you can assume the possible chords by the key, etc. Would you not agree that learning music theory first would make learning songs a whole lot easier and faster? Because that's the way I see it. I like to learn the rules of the game before I play.


So, this brings me to my background and my goals. As I have said in passing, my main goal is to learn music theory by playing the piano (I think most of you have the opposite view? Learn songs and learn music theory along the way of doing that? Yes?). I don't (necessarily) want to learn classical music. I don't want to learn a method book. I want to learn music theory. I want to learn the bones of the whole skeleton so that I can learn to play all kinds of songs and music. My method focuses on learning all aspects of music theory, and FOCUSING HARD on little increments one at a time (i.e. spending an entire week on one scale). I'm currently in college for the Music Industry program (I'm only 22), and one of my teachers says, "Do not practice it until you get it right, practice it until you can never get it wrong". I thought this was amazing, and I'm trying to make it the overall theme for my method, so I also took a step further with a sister quote, "Do not learn it until you know it, learn it until you cannot forget it". I want to spend a week on each scale/concept so that I will never, ever forget each one. But not only am I learning music theory, I'm also playing the piano! So, yes I am "boringly" playing the same scale for a whole week, but learning piano along with the theory allows me to spice it up: play it with my left hand, play it with my right hand, play it with both hands at the same time, play it all the way up the keyboard with both hands, etc. This way I'm learning music theory and how to physically play the piano at the same time. Hopefully now you are seeing how the method is supposed to work. ENGRAVE the music theory in your head, and have some fun with it by playing the same thing in a variety of different ways. You guys are saying that learning this way is boring, but to me its fun! Breaking it down into small, achievable goals is fun to me, it makes me feel like I'm actually learning music, and actually progressing in my learning. Learning songs made me practice at random times, made me give up quicker than I wanted to, etc. Organizing it out like this gives me peace in my order. I've set aside certain time increments for each concept, and that makes me happy. If I'm just playing songs, all I could say is "ah I don't really know much about music, but I can play these 20 songs really well". That's not very useful at all in my opinion. So, using this method, I think in about a year or so from now I will know all major scales, all versions of minor scales, most chords and inversions, all intervals, etc. Do you know how valuable that is? Do I have to stress how valuable that is compared to just knowing 50 songs? I'm sure those who are well trained in music know what I'm talking about. I think my method might be "boring" at first, but it will ultimately make me a music superhuman, which is what I'm really interested in: mastery. Once I achieve mastery of music theory, it will make what I really want to do IMMENSELY easier: creating music. You cannot have an easy time creating music by learning a method book, by learning your favourite songs, by learning everything Mozart wrote, etc. It doesn't work like that.


So, now that I've more fully explained my method that I'm creating, I would like to ask again: Does anyone have any more concepts/details to add to my original list? Every time I search something like "list of all chords", every list is different, some are unorganized, some exclude some chords, etc., so I thought it would be easier to ask piano people lol maybe I was wrong? Idk, I think I've started a good conversation here. If you don't feel like posting in the thread, that's totally cool, you can just PM your opinions or links, PDF's, videos, etc., that have helped you.





Way to go! thumb

You have nothing to learn from us.......


grin


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Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771210
10/10/18 07:06 PM
10/10/18 07:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,252
Pennsylvania
D
dmd Offline
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Posts: 4,252
Pennsylvania
Well .... good luck to you.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, SennHeiser HD 555 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771211
10/10/18 07:12 PM
10/10/18 07:12 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,795
Florida
dogperson Offline
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Florida


Last edited by dogperson; 10/10/18 07:17 PM. Reason: Irrelevant to OP
Re: What To Learn? [Re: bennevis] #2771214
10/10/18 07:21 PM
10/10/18 07:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
F
Finn1996 Offline OP
Full Member
Finn1996  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by bennevis

Way to go! thumb

You have nothing to learn from us.......



So, what .. you have nothing to add or say?

I'm obviously not trying to be a dick or anything, I'm just explaining my mindset and the way I see things and the way I plan on learning this stuff. I never said "let's have a contest to see who's method is the best". I never even asked for a critique on my method lol I was literally just asking for extra music theory information and a list of chord codes to add to my list of concepts. If all you guys do is play songs you know, and know nothing about music theory, maybe this was the wrong place to go. I assumed a piano forum would be more educated than that.

If you have nothing to add or say, then you're right, I guess I do have nothing to learn from you.

Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771229
10/10/18 08:12 PM
10/10/18 08:12 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 330
Chicago
J
John305 Offline
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John305  Offline
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 330
Chicago
Originally Posted by Finn1996
Originally Posted by bennevis

Way to go! thumb

You have nothing to learn from us.......



So, what .. you have nothing to add or say?




You’re new here so you wouldn’t know that bennevis ALWAYS has something to say smile


It’s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771232
10/10/18 08:23 PM
10/10/18 08:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,069
Midwest USA
Stubbie Offline
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Stubbie  Offline
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Midwest USA
You're in college, in a Music Industry program, and you want to learn music theory. Have you taken the Music Theory courses your college offers?


[Linked Image]
Re: What To Learn? [Re: Stubbie] #2771233
10/10/18 08:28 PM
10/10/18 08:28 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 330
Chicago
J
John305 Offline
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J

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 330
Chicago
Originally Posted by Stubbie
You're in college, in a Music Industry program, and you want to learn music theory. Have you taken the Music Theory courses your college offers?



Haven’t you read his post, he’s beyond such mundane concepts such as having a teacher. A teacher would only slow him down by getting in the way of his hubris.


It’s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771234
10/10/18 08:40 PM
10/10/18 08:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,999
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Whizbang Offline
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Originally Posted by Finn1996
I'm going with the assumption that everyone learns their own way, and since they learned that way, they will naturally think that that's the "best" or "only" way to do it


"You have taken 394 hit points of damage from Wall of Text."

Your assumption above is not true in my case. I know that I could learn more efficiently. I also know that I am kind of lazy. So I have to learn in the way that works for my personality.

Would I be a much better pianist today if I did all the best things in regards to meticulous dissection of pieces, careful isolation of passages, study of theory and improv, ear training, sight reading and memorization, scale work, arpeggio work, study of inversions, study of four part harmony, study of voice leading?

No doubt.

But this misses the fact that I might not be a pianist at all today if I'd been forced to do all that. I think most people who have replied to you believe that, while you might have a regimen that might provide you some key technical fundamentals, you've set yourself up with a system that is so psychologically unrewarding that it would be impossible to sustain long term.

The critique and skepticism you are seeing here is not because people want to discourage you and see you fail. It is because we want you to succeed!


Whizbang [Linked Image]
amateur ragtime pianist
https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschala
Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771237
10/10/18 09:19 PM
10/10/18 09:19 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 330
Chicago
J
John305 Offline
Full Member
John305  Offline
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J

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 330
Chicago
I agree with everything Whizbang just said, especially the very last line. I hope the young one has the wisdom/humility to see it.

Extra credit for your Dungeons and Dragons reference.


It’s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771252
10/10/18 10:12 PM
10/10/18 10:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 91
Texas
J
jandz Offline
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Posts: 91
Texas
Hi Finn. Welcome to the forum! I have a few things to add to what the others have said.

First, in defense of the folks who’ve cautioned you on your approach, remember that for most of them that advice comes from years and years of watching beginners with big dreams set themselves up for failure by trying to do too much too fast. Learning any instrument takes a lot of time and the piano is no different. There are no shortcuts.

That’s not to say people here aren’t biased in their ideas about how one should learn. Some are, others not so much. But what you have heard here so far has very little to do with that.

Next thing. The advice of a teacher. You’ll find that while this forum advises everyone to do that, not everyone does for their own reasons. But most beginners who wish to play complicated music of any stripe are better served with a teacher, mainly to prevent injury. Teachers are worth worlds more than that, of course, but injuries at the piano are common and some can be serious and lifelong. Unlearning a bad habit is far more difficult than learning correctly in the first place. Not a show stopper, just something to keep in mind.

Last thing. Scales. I am a beginner too and not very good at the instrument so take my advice for what it’s worth. I found scales to be more useful as I have grown and played more complex music than when I was playing them early on. Probably the best thing I heard was advice from one of the greatest natural pianists that ever lived, long dead of course. He advised new pianists to work through D-flat major in the left hand and B-major in the right prior to the others. Those scales naturally place the long fingers on black keys and the shorter ones on white. It also is easier to learn passing the thumb this way, giving you more control and more grounding in your playing. C-major, according to this pianist, was the most difficult one to do anything with. So naturally he wrote an incredibly fast etude using it, right? That aside, this is but one more thing to think about.

I’m an advocate of doing the thing that keeps you playing. Being at the keyboard is the most important thing to learning. As long as you’re able to do that then you’re probably doing it right. As I have grown, most of the things I thought I’d do in practice have changed as my skills and needs have changed. Be careful not to box yourself in. Make sure you can adapt as you change with time to be sure you keep coming back and playing.

All the best in your journey,
-j

Re: What To Learn? [Re: John305] #2771257
10/10/18 10:26 PM
10/10/18 10:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
F
Finn1996 Offline OP
Full Member
Finn1996  Offline OP
Full Member
F

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by John305


You’re new here so you wouldn’t know that bennevis ALWAYS has something to say smile




oh haha my bad


Originally Posted by John305
Originally Posted by Stubbie
You're in college, in a Music Industry program, and you want to learn music theory. Have you taken the Music Theory courses your college offers?



Haven’t you read his post, he’s beyond such mundane concepts such as having a teacher. A teacher would only slow him down by getting in the way of his hubris.



haha man I never said that .. like I did say, teachers can be very beneficial, I just simply don't want to pay the money and would rather try to learn as much as I can by myself first. Let's not be like this.

And to answer the question, unfortunately (and weirdly) music theory is second semester, but again, its only college so it probably won't go very deep with things, definitely not as deep as a University would, but that's kind of a giant waste of money anyway (depends on exactly what you're going for really). My program is geared more to the music business and recording music in studios.

Re: What To Learn? [Re: Whizbang] #2771262
10/10/18 10:49 PM
10/10/18 10:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
F
Finn1996 Offline OP
Full Member
Finn1996  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by Whizbang
Originally Posted by Finn1996
I'm going with the assumption that everyone learns their own way, and since they learned that way, they will naturally think that that's the "best" or "only" way to do it


"You have taken 394 hit points of damage from Wall of Text."

Your assumption above is not true in my case. I know that I could learn more efficiently. I also know that I am kind of lazy. So I have to learn in the way that works for my personality.

Would I be a much better pianist today if I did all the best things in regards to meticulous dissection of pieces, careful isolation of passages, study of theory and improv, ear training, sight reading and memorization, scale work, arpeggio work, study of inversions, study of four part harmony, study of voice leading?

No doubt.

But this misses the fact that I might not be a pianist at all today if I'd been forced to do all that. I think most people who have replied to you believe that, while you might have a regimen that might provide you some key technical fundamentals, you've set yourself up with a system that is so psychologically unrewarding that it would be impossible to sustain long term.

The critique and skepticism you are seeing here is not because people want to discourage you and see you fail. It is because we want you to succeed!



Right, but you do see how you're assuming all these things about me then, right? That's great that you know yourself well and you know what you want out of it, but it sounds like you're assuming I, and I guess all beginners, will be like you. Maybe I'm more passionate than you, maybe I don't treat music as passively as you, we're different people. You literally know that you could be so much better at it, but you probably don't care because all that stuff doesn't interest you as much as learning songs/pieces. And again, that's you and that's totally fine. It should seem obvious by now that I have different goals than you guys. You wanna talk about your own personality and playing style/habits, and that's blocking you (all) from seeing my own personality and playing style/habits.

Check my OP, I didn't ask anyone about what they do or how they learned, because I'm aware that everyone's journey will be different, and I'm also aware of the obvious stuff like "getting a teacher might be helpful", etc. etc. I have a Psychology degree, I'm aware of things like memorization optimization, learning strategies, goal setting, etc. All I wanted was for people to supply me the info I was asking for. Like I've said before, I didn't ask to be critiqued and doubted on my method, yet I feel like I'm being attacked (not by you) for just asking for some help lol like, at this point, I would rather someone who knows music theory well to just inform me on what I'm missing in my list and educate me a bit on chords. I will just stop posting and mark this as a mistake if no one here can simply help me with that.

Re: What To Learn? [Re: jandz] #2771266
10/10/18 11:14 PM
10/10/18 11:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
F
Finn1996 Offline OP
Full Member
Finn1996  Offline OP
Full Member
F

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by jandz
Hi Finn. Welcome to the forum! I have a few things to add to what the others have said.

First, in defense of the folks who’ve cautioned you on your approach, remember that for most of them that advice comes from years and years of watching beginners with big dreams set themselves up for failure by trying to do too much too fast. Learning any instrument takes a lot of time and the piano is no different. There are no shortcuts.

That’s not to say people here aren’t biased in their ideas about how one should learn. Some are, others not so much. But what you have heard here so far has very little to do with that.

Next thing. The advice of a teacher. You’ll find that while this forum advises everyone to do that, not everyone does for their own reasons. But most beginners who wish to play complicated music of any stripe are better served with a teacher, mainly to prevent injury. Teachers are worth worlds more than that, of course, but injuries at the piano are common and some can be serious and lifelong. Unlearning a bad habit is far more difficult than learning correctly in the first place. Not a show stopper, just something to keep in mind.

Last thing. Scales. I am a beginner too and not very good at the instrument so take my advice for what it’s worth. I found scales to be more useful as I have grown and played more complex music than when I was playing them early on. Probably the best thing I heard was advice from one of the greatest natural pianists that ever lived, long dead of course. He advised new pianists to work through D-flat major in the left hand and B-major in the right prior to the others. Those scales naturally place the long fingers on black keys and the shorter ones on white. It also is easier to learn passing the thumb this way, giving you more control and more grounding in your playing. C-major, according to this pianist, was the most difficult one to do anything with. So naturally he wrote an incredibly fast etude using it, right? That aside, this is but one more thing to think about.

I’m an advocate of doing the thing that keeps you playing. Being at the keyboard is the most important thing to learning. As long as you’re able to do that then you’re probably doing it right. As I have grown, most of the things I thought I’d do in practice have changed as my skills and needs have changed. Be careful not to box yourself in. Make sure you can adapt as you change with time to be sure you keep coming back and playing.

All the best in your journey,
-j



Thanks for the response jandz, refreshingly positive!

In my defense, to your defense, there is a contradiction you guys aren't seeing. I get the sympathy, and that's nice of you guys, for real, I get it, but you guys are saying that I'm taking on too much at once AND setting myself up to be utterly bored at the same time. How is that possible? I really do feel like I'm being misconstrued because of people's personal bias. It seems that the majority of you favour playing songs over learning music theory, and that's great, but we're not talking about your methods, this is a post to improve my method, and if I'm saying my interest towards things is music theory, then I feel that those who want to help should keep that in mind rather than push their views on things on me and assume things about me.

It's only the overall plan that looks like a lot, and it obviously is, because music theory is a huge subject to tackle, but that should go without saying that it will obviously take time to learn. I said that in a year from now I would be in a much further position than now, as long as I stick with practicing every day, which is just as important, like you say, and I totally agree.

And, all of you, please don't misunderstand me again. I totally understand what you're saying as far as a teacher being beneficial, but how does that exclude the Internet from teaching me? Searching these concepts on Youtube will give me plenty of different teachers and each of their own views on the concepts. If I have more specific questions about specific things, I can come to a forum and ask a community of players. Why must I spend money on a teacher when those other resources are available for free? Is it because you all had teachers and you think that's the best way and you're pushing that on me? I think that's it. Maybe I should add "Proper Physical Habits" to my list and I'll research it? Seems like a much nicer way of offering help than telling me I'll pretty much fail without a teacher.

And lastly, I'd also like to mention that, using your words, some may think I might be "trying to do too much too fast". If people here read my all posts and honestly still think that ... I don't know man. I'm pretty sure I've clearly said that my method involves breaking concepts down into the smallest parts and focusing on one part in particular every week, then moving on and focusing on the next thing. Seems pretty slow and steady to me .. right? The big goal is .. big lol but it is achieved by reaching many much smaller goals in an orderly fashion to maximize efficiency of learning. The whole point of my OP was to ask for help on the missing blanks in my list, because I'm not a know-it-all (which I'm guessing some are thinking I am) and I can admit I don't know everything and I need help. So, I don't know, I think I'm just being misunderstood or something.

Last edited by Finn1996; 10/10/18 11:17 PM.
Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771268
10/10/18 11:41 PM
10/10/18 11:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 881
R
Richrf Offline
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Richrf  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 881
Let me make two points.

1) Getting a teacher is no panacea for anything in life. I had many in my life, and most added nothing except stress, boredom, and suppression of personal expression and creativity, for which I payed a handsome sum of money each week.

2) To answer your question as to what you should study when learning piano? Learn to imagine a sound in your mind and create that sound with the piano. I would start by listening to one simple piece very carefully. Hear that piece until it is solidly in your imagination. Study the sound and how that sound is being produced by others who are playing that piece, and then go about creating the music. That is what it is all about. It is the gesture needed to express the sound that is in your imagination through the piano. In my opinion, your current approach does not develop the appropriate skills to accomplish this. You are only hitting keys.

Re: What To Learn? [Re: Richrf] #2771270
10/11/18 12:26 AM
10/11/18 12:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
F
Finn1996 Offline OP
Full Member
Finn1996  Offline OP
Full Member
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by Richrf
Let me make two points.

1) Getting a teacher is no panacea for anything in life. I had many in my life, and most added nothing except stress, boredom, and suppression of personal expression and creativity, for which I payed a handsome sum of money each week.

2) To answer your question as to what you should study when learning piano? Learn to imagine a sound in your mind and create that sound with the piano. I would start by listening to one simple piece very carefully. Hear that piece until it is solidly in your imagination. Study the sound and how that sound is being produced by others who are playing that piece, and then go about creating the music. That is what it is all about. It is the gesture needed to express the sound that is in your imagination through the piano. In my opinion, your current approach does not develop the appropriate skills to accomplish this. You are only hitting keys.


Right, that's a great suggestion! That sounds like it's an advanced topic, so it would go later in the list, but I'll definitely add that for sure. Thanks!

Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771273
10/11/18 12:38 AM
10/11/18 12:38 AM
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Richrf Offline
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Richrf  Offline
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If you study music, you will quickly come to the conclusion that the sound comes before the the theory. Theory only serves to explain discovery, and that pretty much describes every course of study in life. And as music evolves, so does theory, both of which are endless in growth.

The first step in music, or any art, is to see it, hear it, feel it, or smell it (as in cooking) clearly in imagination. Then you may develop one of an endless number of theories. Exactly which of these endless number of theories do you wish to study? Cuban Afro-Jazz?

Re: What To Learn? [Re: Richrf] #2771275
10/11/18 12:55 AM
10/11/18 12:55 AM
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Finn1996 Offline OP
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Finn1996  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Richrf
If you study music, you will quickly come to the conclusion that the sound comes before the the theory. Theory only serves to explain discovery, and that pretty much describes every course of study in life. And as music evolves, so does theory, both of which are endless in growth.

The first step in music, or any art, is to see it, hear it, feel it, or smell it (as in cooking) clearly in imagination. Then you may develop one of an endless number of theories. Exactly which of these endless number of theories do you wish to study? Cuban Afro-Jazz?


I think you're explaining what I'm imagining to be the end goal. I want to create music, and I guess I just believe that knowing music theory will make creating chord progressions and understanding relationships in the sounds much easier. Whenever I try to write a song, I'm always stumped because I don't know what works with chords and melodies, etc., and the process is frustrating and takes way longer than it could. That's one of my main inspirations to learn music theory, I want to understand all these things, it allows me to see the choices and what works and what doesn't.

Learning with one sense isn't as effective as learning with multiple. I believe your advice to becoming really familiar with the sounds of things is extremely crucial, but it's a lot easier to find and understand those sounds when I've read about them and can put a name to them as well as hear them. That's the overall point I'm trying to make. I'm trying to memorize the boring, redundant stuff systematically to graduate to more advanced playing and understanding, like the stuff you're mentioning.

Last edited by Finn1996; 10/11/18 01:00 AM.
Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771287
10/11/18 02:33 AM
10/11/18 02:33 AM
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pianoloverus Online content
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pianoloverus  Online Content
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Let me be blunt to the OP. You are in no position to design a method of study to learn piano because you know almost nothing about music theory or how to play the piano. Almost nothing you say makes sense. There are established and proven courses of study that work for almost everyone that have been designed by people with decades of teaching experience and you should choose one of those.

If you can afford a teacher and choose not to use that approach you are making possibly the biggest mistake imaginable. Your progress, if any, will be much slower.

Most of the time you have been practicing using your method so far has probably been a complete waste of time. For example, hitting the correct notes while practicing a C major scale is not all that is involved in correct scale technique.

Finally, your posts are almost unreadable because of the lengths of your paragraphs.

Re: What To Learn? [Re: BruceD] #2771295
10/11/18 03:31 AM
10/11/18 03:31 AM
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Lillith Offline
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Lillith  Offline
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Originally Posted by BruceD


This must surely be the shortest cut to "crash and burn" out of sheer boredom that I have ever heard.


Says it all for me smile
Add to that all the other good advice and there you have it.


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
Roland FP30 in white
Re: What To Learn? [Re: Finn1996] #2771302
10/11/18 04:16 AM
10/11/18 04:16 AM
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Michael P Walsh Online content
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If you are developing a method for others, experimenting on yourself. . . . good luck. I doubt if 0.1% of the population who wish to take up the piano would be the slightest bit interested. By all means experiment on yourself though. I'm not so sure inflicting it on others is a humane thing to do though. Read my earlier reply. I tried your method. It's junk. As a method it's absolute garbage. There's a very good reason why teachers and method books use the approach that they do, otherwise it suggests that all of them, each and every one, has been an idiot. Then again if you are so determined to prove it works then I guess it will. Just don't expect anyone else to go along with it.

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