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Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
#2770647 10/08/18 04:50 PM
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On my Rhodes and my UN-weighted Oberheim Xk, I can play machine gun-like repeats on one note at a rate of 12 per second. I tried out a couple DP's today - Yamaha MODX8 and Roland RD2000 - and they cannot respond fast enough.

(What I really have my heart set on is either the Kawai MP7SE, MP11SE or VPC-1 - but would you believe, there's not one, single dealer in the entire state of Michigan?).

So, my question: Are there any weighted-action DP's capable of such fast repetitions?


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Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770653 10/08/18 05:19 PM
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I'd actually be surprised if any hammer weighted DP today can't achieve 12/sec.

FWIW, Casio actually has a video online of the rep speed of their Grand Hybrid action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhbkRYVPkSc

That's certainly faster than 12/sec.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770657 10/08/18 05:26 PM
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My Nord stage 2 HA76 could. (I no longer own it.) and my Kawai CA93 can.

Last edited by Coker; 10/08/18 05:32 PM.

Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93, Yamaha MODX8, EV ZXA1
Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770669 10/08/18 05:57 PM
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Pianos can achieve no more than zero repetitions per second. Only the player can. Or, in the case of that video, a machine.

Machine aside ... who can actually achieve 12 reps per second? Nearly no one. So isn't this all pointless?

Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
MacMacMac #2770673 10/08/18 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Pianos can achieve no more than zero repetitions per second. Only the player can. Or, in the case of that video, a machine.

Machine aside ... who can actually achieve 12 reps per second? Nearly no one. So isn't this all pointless?


FWIW - It looks to me like Billy Joel can. smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJf7_5vH1WE (Watch the beginning, and again at the 1:20 mark)


Bert
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Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770680 10/08/18 06:28 PM
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Reps on the SAME note?

Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770686 10/08/18 06:48 PM
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It's not so difficult provided that you only need four repetitions. The trick is to use different fingers. Hold your hand with the palm vertical, fingers extended, so that you can move your arm down and hit the end of a white key with fingers 5, 4, 3, and 2 in rapid succession. Pretty much anybody can find the maximum rep rate of pretty much any action using that test.

Rapid reps raising and lowering the same finger on the same key are a real bad idea, a quick route to carpal tunnel.....


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Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770696 10/08/18 07:36 PM
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Slightly off topic: I can do 12 push-ups per second!

Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
MacMacMac #2770701 10/08/18 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Reps on the SAME note?


Not a big deal getting close to 12 rocking between two alternating fingers on my right hand. Piece of cake 'drumming' with alternating R and L middle or index fingers. Before posting, I set REAPER to 60 BPM, recorded, then counted the MIDI notes per beat, to ensure I wasn't bs'ing.

You think achievable on the Kawai VPC-1?

Last edited by DuvSliders; 10/08/18 08:14 PM.

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Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770707 10/08/18 09:23 PM
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I perform ‘Polo’from de Falla’s Siete Canciones Populares. I have practiced it on both my DPs as well as my acoustic grand. The piece requires a minimum SAME note repetition rate of 12 notes per second (9 1/16ths in 3/8 time at dotted quarter = 80). No problemo.

Repetition rate on an acoustic grand is limited by the jack reset point and the resonant string/hammer interaction rate. This can be felt and is limiting.

When I perform on ‘public’ pianos, my singer and I must adjust the speed of the piece to the piano’s ability to repeat at the required speed. Normally, it is not a problem.

Last edited by prout; 10/08/18 09:28 PM.
Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
MacMacMac #2770711 10/08/18 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Reps on the SAME note?


That Billy Joel song newbert pointed to is about 15-16 repetitions per second of the same note.

And as JohnSprung kind of pointed out, just because someone wants an action that allows him to achieve a rate of 12 notes per second doesn't mean he always needs to play 12 repeated notes to take advantage of it. You may want to repeat 3 notes in a quarter of a second. Even if you stop after three, the action still has to be capable of that same speedy rate.

Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770712 10/08/18 09:42 PM
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Prout - How is that fingered?

Last edited by DuvSliders; 10/08/18 09:45 PM.

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Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
anotherscott #2770714 10/08/18 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Reps on the SAME note?


That Billy Joel song newbert pointed to is about 15-16 repetitions per second of the same note.

And as JohnSprung kind of pointed out, just because someone wants an action that allows him to achieve a rate of 12 notes per second doesn't mean he always needs to play 12 repeated notes to take advantage of it. You may want to repeat 3 notes in a quarter of a second. Even if you stop after three, the action still has to be capable of that same speedy rate.


Exactly!


I never metaphor I didn't like.
Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770734 10/09/18 01:13 AM
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For reference, I started a thread on a similar topic in January 2017:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ano-that-allows-fast-repeated-notes.html

Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770746 10/09/18 03:27 AM
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Fascinating thread! I read it all in six seconds.


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Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
anotherscott #2770754 10/09/18 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott


That Billy Joel song newbert pointed to is about 15-16 repetitions per second of the same note.


I'd put it closer to 11 notes per second. Tempo of this song is around 164bpm, 16th notes 4 notes per beat.

at 60 bpm, 16th notes = 4 notes per beat
120 bpm, 16th notes= 8 notes per beat
164bpm = 2.73 x 60bpm, => 4 x 2.73 = 10.92 notes per second.

Even playing it at a faster tempo of 170bpm only gives 11.33 notes second

It's really not that fast.

You have to play Angry young man at 180bpm to hit 12 notes per second. And you have to play it at 240bpm to hit 16 notes per second - which is well beyond what anyone can actually play it.

Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Pete14 #2770755 10/09/18 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Slightly off topic...
Why bother with that disclaimer? You better warn us when you will be on topic wink


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Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770760 10/09/18 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DuvSliders
Prout - How is that fingered?
Mostly 2 in the left hand against 2 in the right, but one section requires 5 in the left against 1 in the right for four measures.

Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
Duv Slider #2770762 10/09/18 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DuvSliders
On my Rhodes and my UN-weighted Oberheim Xk, I can play machine gun-like repeats on one note at a rate of 12 per second. I tried out a couple DP's today - Yamaha MODX8 and Roland RD2000 - and they cannot respond fast enough.

(What I really have my heart set on is either the Kawai MP7SE, MP11SE or VPC-1 - but would you believe, there's not one, single dealer in the entire state of Michigan?).

Hi DivSliders,

So, my question: Are there any weighted-action DP's capable of such fast repetitions?


I found the Yamaha CP4 action to be particularly good for fast repeated notes. A very good pianist called Kevin Laurence plays Billy Joel's: Prelude / Angry Young Man on the Yamaha P155.

I think most digitals will reach such a rate; however, you might have to train yourself slowly and work up in order to develop the fine muscle control to achieve it ---- especially on heavier actions.

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Is There ANY DP Action That Can Do 12 Reps per Second?
ando #2770765 10/09/18 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by anotherscott
That Billy Joel song newbert pointed to is about 15-16 repetitions per second of the same note.

I'd put it closer to 11 notes per second. Tempo of this song is around 164bpm, 16th notes 4 notes per beat....You have to play Angry young man at 180bpm to hit 12 notes per second. And you have to play it at 240bpm to hit 16 notes per second - which is well beyond what anyone can actually play it.

I was talking about the original studio version, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpMv76SIUhg - I didn't time the live version that was in the earlier link. But it seems he was playing it slightly more slowly in 2008 than he was in 1976. ;-) I just timed the original, looks to be about 200 BPM at the start, so over 12 hits per second... around 13... but yeah, not the 15+ I thought it was.

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