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Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2745236
06/18/18 04:54 AM
06/18/18 04:54 AM
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mik pointe Offline
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I'm glad I read this thread! Thank you all for exploring.
For me, a half hour in the store, it was difficult to even get this problem to happen on purpose but I was able to manage it a few times but was intentionally trying. I ended up getting a CLP 635 and the binaural headphone sampling (combined with high quality open headphones) is amazing. I still think the NU1X has the very best headphone amp/sound of all N1, N2, though I didn't try the N3.
The action is really much more convincing than any imitation.

Last edited by mik pointe; 06/18/18 04:56 AM.
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Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2745241
06/18/18 05:42 AM
06/18/18 05:42 AM
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Tyr Offline
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I like the NU1X too but i find it difficult to play in the upper area of the keys and also on uprights in general.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2747414
06/27/18 08:46 AM
06/27/18 08:46 AM
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fferro09 Offline
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For those of you who wanted to return yours but denied a refund, please let me know if you'd be interested selling it? I've been looking for an NU1 but all the dealers ask way too much for it.

Last edited by fferro09; 06/27/18 08:52 AM.
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2764648
09/11/18 02:43 AM
09/11/18 02:43 AM
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Colin Miles Offline
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Yesterday I visited the local dealer and he sat down at the NU1X and asked me to listen as he thought there was a problem. I immediately said spiking before he started playing and he said yes. I had first noticed this on this unit a couple of months ago but the dealer has only just realised there is a problem. In addition one of the notes is a bit 'proud' and on further investigation I found one key a bit heavy and another a bit loose. So it clearly needs regulation/calibration. Whether that will cure the spiking problem is debatable - you didn't need to play fast to invoke it. Also found the dynamic range somewhat lacking so maybe a dud unit altogether, A CA78 in the shop was much better.

I agree about using an algorithm to solve it. I first encountered this sort of thing back in the 60's on a ICT1202 - not solved. Later on a little control unit (paper tape) which I programmed to solve the problem. Then still later on a Univac main frame and a ZX81! Recently applied the same kind of logic to my weather station to remove the odd spikes. So it can be done though a bit fiddly.

The dealer is going to contact Yamaha so it will be interesting to see what response he gets.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
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Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2764657
09/11/18 03:47 AM
09/11/18 03:47 AM
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Liverpool, NY
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pathguy Offline
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So, I've had my NU1X for a week now--and bought it in spite of knowing about this issue. I sat down and just loved the feel and the sound (though I'm a relative beginner and used to a Roland FP-30). I did not re-create the issue at the dealer, but of course I have been able to re-create it at home.

Besides that annoyance, I really do love this piano. I suppose there is a tradeoff with everything. For me: I need to be able to use headphones. Is this just the price one has to pay to not get a "real" acoustic? It would be nice to hear if Yamaha plans on doing anything about it.

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: pathguy] #2764713
09/11/18 09:08 AM
09/11/18 09:08 AM
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Colin Miles Offline
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Originally Posted by pathguy
So, I've had my NU1X for a week now--and bought it in spite of knowing about this issue. I sat down and just loved the feel and the sound (though I'm a relative beginner and used to a Roland FP-30). I did not re-create the issue at the dealer, but of course I have been able to re-create it at home.

Besides that annoyance, I really do love this piano. I suppose there is a tradeoff with everything. For me: I need to be able to use headphones. Is this just the price one has to pay to not get a "real" acoustic? It would be nice to hear if Yamaha plans on doing anything about it.


No, it isn't the price to pay as there are plenty of other perfectly good DP's out there. In your case I would go back to the dealer and try that one out. And if it is spike-free ask for that instead of the one you have.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Colin Miles] #2764730
09/11/18 10:18 AM
09/11/18 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Colin Miles

No, it isn't the price to pay as there are plenty of other perfectly good DP's out there. In your case I would go back to the dealer and try that one out. And if it is spike-free ask for that instead of the one you have.


A complicated issue. From what I know, there aren't any "spike free" NU1s, at least not that I've encountered. It's a design issue centered around the fact that the velocity sensor is only attached to the key and not the free-flying hammer. There may definitely be regulation issues that cause it to occur more frequently or prominently on some units than others, but it's a characteristic interest to the NI1/NU1X design.

IMO the question is whether you notice it, and whether it detracts from your own experience.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Colin Miles] #2764770
09/11/18 02:20 PM
09/11/18 02:20 PM
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pathguy Offline
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Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by pathguy
So, I've had my NU1X for a week now--and bought it in spite of knowing about this issue. I sat down and just loved the feel and the sound (though I'm a relative beginner and used to a Roland FP-30). I did not re-create the issue at the dealer, but of course I have been able to re-create it at home.

Besides that annoyance, I really do love this piano. I suppose there is a tradeoff with everything. For me: I need to be able to use headphones. Is this just the price one has to pay to not get a "real" acoustic? It would be nice to hear if Yamaha plans on doing anything about it.


No, it isn't the price to pay as there are plenty of other perfectly good DP's out there. In your case I would go back to the dealer and try that one out. And if it is spike-free ask for that instead of the one you have.


The one I have is the one I played at the dealer. They only order one at a time, and prefer to have them played a bit to make sure they are working properly. Great for me: Nothing to open since they just delivered the piano and bench wink

It doesn't bother me too much; just is a little distracting. Overall, I really enjoy it.

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: pathguy] #2764791
09/11/18 04:53 PM
09/11/18 04:53 PM
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Colin Miles Offline
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Originally Posted by pathguy
Originally Posted by Colin Miles
Originally Posted by pathguy
So, I've had my NU1X for a week now--and bought it in spite of knowing about this issue. I sat down and just loved the feel and the sound (though I'm a relative beginner and used to a Roland FP-30). I did not re-create the issue at the dealer, but of course I have been able to re-create it at home.

Besides that annoyance, I really do love this piano. I suppose there is a tradeoff with everything. For me: I need to be able to use headphones. Is this just the price one has to pay to not get a "real" acoustic? It would be nice to hear if Yamaha plans on doing anything about it.


No, it isn't the price to pay as there are plenty of other perfectly good DP's out there. In your case I would go back to the dealer and try that one out. And if it is spike-free ask for that instead of the one you have.


The one I have is the one I played at the dealer. They only order one at a time, and prefer to have them played a bit to make sure they are working properly. Great for me: Nothing to open since they just delivered the piano and bench wink

It doesn't bother me too much; just is a little distracting. Overall, I really enjoy it.


Sounds like it may be a developing fault. But perhaps it will get better - who knows!


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Colin Miles] #2764888
09/12/18 03:40 AM
09/12/18 03:40 AM
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spanishbuddha Offline
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Originally Posted by Colin Miles

No, it isn't the price to pay as there are plenty of other perfectly good DP's out there. In your case I would go back to the dealer and try that one out. And if it is spike-free ask for that instead of the one you have.

[quote=Colin Miles]
I think we’ve agreed to disagree on this before. I contend there are not plenty of other perfectly good DPs out there <with a realistic piano action>. The AGs of course, the Kawai NV10 with hardly encouraging feedback on PW, the Casio GP series with less than stellar feel. None of the regular top of the range DPs have that real piano action feel. Sure some of them might actually play and feel better, but that’s another topic. It all depends what you’re after.

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: spanishbuddha] #2764902
09/12/18 05:56 AM
09/12/18 05:56 AM
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Colin Miles Offline
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
[quote=Colin Miles]
No, it isn't the price to pay as there are plenty of other perfectly good DP's out there. In your case I would go back to the dealer and try that one out. And if it is spike-free ask for that instead of the one you have.

Originally Posted by Colin Miles

I think we’ve agreed to disagree on this before. I contend there are not plenty of other perfectly good DPs out there <with a realistic piano action>. The AGs of course, the Kawai NV10 with hardly encouraging feedback on PW, the Casio GP series with less than stellar feel. None of the regular top of the range DPs have that real piano action feel. Sure some of them might actually play and feel better, but that’s another topic. It all depends what you’re after.

I don't think I am alone in disagreeing with you. And I am not really sure what you mean by a realistic piano action. But apart from that it doesn't help the OP with his problem. I am hoping that this either disappears or doesn't worsen and that he can somehow ignore it.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2764929
09/12/18 08:36 AM
09/12/18 08:36 AM
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toddy Offline
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
I contend there are not plenty of other perfectly good DPs out there <with a realistic piano action>. ...........None of the regular top of the range DPs have that real piano action feel.


There's something I don't quite understand in this assertion. What exactly is 'that real piano action feel'? Because there is a big difference between one acoustic piano manufacturer's mechanism and another. And between a new action and an aging one. Not to mention the jump from the feel of an upright to a grand piano action. The better (not even necessarily 'best') actions of good DPs are, I'd say, well within those limits, closer to the concert grand ideal than outlying 'non-ideal' actions, even though they (the non-ideal) be authentic acoustic actions of one sort of another.

What impediments, in terms of key action, are they that make DP actions unacceptable? What are you prevented from learning or performing that you can do on an acoustic?


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Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: toddy] #2764941
09/12/18 09:37 AM
09/12/18 09:37 AM
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Germany
JoBert Offline
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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
I contend there are not plenty of other perfectly good DPs out there <with a realistic piano action>. ...........None of the regular top of the range DPs have that real piano action feel.


There's something I don't quite understand in this assertion. What exactly is 'that real piano action feel'? Because there is a big difference between one acoustic piano manufacturer's mechanism and another. And between a new action and an aging one. Not to mention the jump from the feel of an upright to a grand piano action.

Huh?

Didn't you just assert the exact opposite in the other thread (the "PHA-4, PHA-50, GF, GFII, GFC, NWX, GH, GranTouch, AvantGrand" thread). I quote you from there:
"a 'typical grand piano action' is some sort of objective measure."

And now here you are saying that "there's a big difference between one acoustic ... and another". How can there be a "big difference", if at the same time there's also a "typical action" that is an objective measure?

confused

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: toddy] #2764972
09/12/18 12:34 PM
09/12/18 12:34 PM
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spanishbuddha Offline
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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
I contend there are not plenty of other perfectly good DPs out there <with a realistic piano action>. ...........None of the regular top of the range DPs have that real piano action feel.


There's something I don't quite understand in this assertion. What exactly is 'that real piano action feel'? Because there is a big difference between one acoustic piano manufacturer's mechanism and another. And between a new action and an aging one. Not to mention the jump from the feel of an upright to a grand piano action. The better (not even necessarily 'best') actions of good DPs are, I'd say, well within those limits, closer to the concert grand ideal than outlying 'non-ideal' actions, even though they (the non-ideal) be authentic acoustic actions of one sort of another.

What impediments, in terms of key action, are they that make DP actions unacceptable? What are you prevented from learning or performing that you can do on an acoustic?

As expounded in that other thread there are indeed wide variations in feel across DPs and acoustics, so all I can offer is a personal view as a generalisation, which no doubt can be countered by picking on specifics. My view is that most non-hybrid high end DP actions are too good, too smooth really, despite the addition of a friction point to falsely simulate escapement, to be useful for preparation of a performance on an acoustic, where the control and production of the tone is often the subjective judgement on how well the performance has been executed. Obviously there are degrees here (twinkle twinkle or Liszt) and many people won’t be concerned by this at all, and that’s just fine. I’m not criticising DP actions, they have their place, for DPs which are getting closer to being like acoustics, more so for the listener, (and that topic frequently recurs on this board) but not yet so much so for the performer. As an aside, my current favourite is the FP90

Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: JoBert] #2764993
09/12/18 01:31 PM
09/12/18 01:31 PM
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EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
I contend there are not plenty of other perfectly good DPs out there <with a realistic piano action>. ...........None of the regular top of the range DPs have that real piano action feel.


There's something I don't quite understand in this assertion. What exactly is 'that real piano action feel'? Because there is a big difference between one acoustic piano manufacturer's mechanism and another. And between a new action and an aging one. Not to mention the jump from the feel of an upright to a grand piano action.

Huh?

Didn't you just assert the exact opposite in the other thread (the "PHA-4, PHA-50, GF, GFII, GFC, NWX, GH, GranTouch, AvantGrand" thread). I quote you from there:
"a 'typical grand piano action' is some sort of objective measure."

And now here you are saying that "there's a big difference between one acoustic ... and another". How can there be a "big difference", if at the same time there's also a "typical action" that is an objective measure?

confused


Yes, I just came from the other thread and I feel there is some inconsistency. Quite un-toddy-like!


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Yamaha CLP 645
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: JoBert] #2764994
09/12/18 01:39 PM
09/12/18 01:39 PM
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toddy Offline
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
I contend there are not plenty of other perfectly good DPs out there <with a realistic piano action>. ...........None of the regular top of the range DPs have that real piano action feel.


There's something I don't quite understand in this assertion. What exactly is 'that real piano action feel'? Because there is a big difference between one acoustic piano manufacturer's mechanism and another. And between a new action and an aging one. Not to mention the jump from the feel of an upright to a grand piano action.

Huh?

Didn't you just assert the exact opposite in the other thread (the "PHA-4, PHA-50, GF, GFII, GFC, NWX, GH, GranTouch, AvantGrand" thread). I quote you from there:
"a 'typical grand piano action' is some sort of objective measure."

And now here you are saying that "there's a big difference between one acoustic ... and another". How can there be a "big difference", if at the same time there's also a "typical action" that is an objective measure.


In one post I said that a grand piano action is often (though need not necessarily be) an objective measure in judging a DPs action. In the other post I said there is a range of acoustic piano actions, in terms of response and how they feel.

I think both are true - demonstrably true. And I don't think one obviates the other. What I was pointing out in one post is that there is a range of acceptable and established grand piano actions, and that DPs do a good job of imitating an acoustic action within that range.

This does not infer there is one and only one single standard - there is however a variety within a range in terms of weight, inertia and other factors which pianists feel comfortable with.

Beyond that, without acoustic-mechanical constraints, there may well be more efficient or pleasing actions possible which are not dependent at all on the acoustic piano action. It may eventually take over the acoustic actions of today - but that wasn't what I was talking about in either post.


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Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: EssBrace] #2764995
09/12/18 01:41 PM
09/12/18 01:41 PM
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toddy Offline
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Originally Posted by EssBrace


Yes, I just came from the other thread and I feel there is some inconsistency. Quite un-toddy-like!


Essbrace, that is an immensely kind word. I'm quite overcome with emotion.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: toddy] #2765000
09/12/18 01:55 PM
09/12/18 01:55 PM
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EssBrace Offline
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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by EssBrace


Yes, I just came from the other thread and I feel there is some inconsistency. Quite un-toddy-like!


Essbrace, that is an immensely kind word. I'm quite overcome with emotion.


Understandable! I have more kind words whenever you should require them.


Roland RD-1000 | Nord Piano 3 | Dexibell Vivo P7 | Yamaha CLP 645
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2765007
09/12/18 02:37 PM
09/12/18 02:37 PM
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toddy Offline
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smile


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact

Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
Re: Yamaha NU1X defect [Re: Egorbopol] #2769447
10/03/18 10:54 PM
10/03/18 10:54 PM
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Haruki Offline
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As many of you, I was also considering buying an NU1X, but since I heard of this “defect” I’m reconsidering it. The problem is that I don’t know if there are other alternatives comparable to the NU1X (in the same price range). For me, I already have the impression that this is the best digital piano you can get for that price, in terms of piano key action and sound.

Which other digital (hybrid) pianos could you recommend me to look as a replacement of the NU1X in the same price range?

Thanks!

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