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Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2768953
10/02/18 01:20 AM
10/02/18 01:20 AM
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Lady Bird Offline
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It's what your perception of what you like as sound . Ones perception is based on many things ,memory for example ,what is stored in our mind .For me the sound of an accoustic piano in a home gives me a memory which is to me is spritual .,a memory of playing to my parents at home .This was a time when the piano was an important part of many homes .Few homes from where I came from had grand pianos but often an upright. For people who are younger this may be different .The price of a reasonable upright is we know so much higher than a digital and you can even buy new .!!! Also many live in apartments so would need silent accoustic pianos .So they decide to buy a digital and save for that grand.,of course I believe they would play that grand better if they practiced on an accoustic upright piano. BUT I am not going into that now !

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Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2768978
10/02/18 04:47 AM
10/02/18 04:47 AM
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Posts: 11,276
Philadelphia/South Jersey
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The acoustic piano will never go away. But the technology available in today's top end digital and hybrid pianos is absolutely breath taking.

As an anecdote, we were working on a Bechstein grand for the head of the piano program at Lincoln University. He needed to rent a piano so he could keep practicing. He was surprised by his experience. Well, for the rest of the story, watch this video: https://youtu.be/b3HZT4QAFDc


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
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Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2768980
10/02/18 05:25 AM
10/02/18 05:25 AM
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North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Offline
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Loved that youtube video ,just shows how new experiences change the way we think ! It does not try to answer the op ,s question because there is no real answer .

Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: BDB] #2768997
10/02/18 07:38 AM
10/02/18 07:38 AM
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USA
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Bob Offline
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Originally Posted by BDB
I tune Yamahas and Kawais from the 1960s which hold their tunings for a long time. That is the case with all of the quality instruments that I tune, and even most of the older and lower quality pianos.


Two things contribute to the tuning stability BDB enjoys. 1. His climate is very stable - humidity swings are limited. 2. BDB is an experienced technician who has learned how to produce long lasting, stable tunings. I have the same stability 9 months out of the year in Florida if the client uses A/C all the time. In northern climates (Georgia and north), that's not the case because humidity swings more winter to summer.

Some of my clients would be better off with a digital, rather than their rusty, broken down acoustic spinet, but they want an acoustic piano. As long as that attitude exists, acoustic uprights will remain. I predict over the next few decades, all those spinets will be tossed out, and taller uprights will be the norm for acoustic pianos, while shorter upright needs will be digital, and everyone will lust for that acoustic grand.

I was between acoustic pianos for 18 months, playing a digital. Then I bought a used Steinway L and I've not played the digital since.




Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2768998
10/02/18 07:47 AM
10/02/18 07:47 AM
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I think the OP asked the question because it is fun to talk about! He obviously knows the pros and cons. I have played a 1915 renovated Steinway B for thirty years and it is marvelous. No digital can compare... Yet. But, as Rich's video demonstrates, a closed mind can miss something valuable, and there is much to be open to in the evolving digital landscape.

Six months ago I discovered iOS music making on the iPad. In the past three months I created two thirty minute long, four movement "Synthonies" and a dozen jazz pieces. All that music is piano centric and I used an average, noisy, Casio keyboard as a controller. Did I miss my Steinway? Frankly, no. I was so caught up in the amazing opportunity to create ersatz symphonic music and quite credible piano bass jazz pieces that the keyboard limitation disappeared in the white light of intense creativity.

It is true I have composed extensively on an acoustic instrument, but never so productively and completely realized as using the amazing tools available for the iPad. And, it is incredibly affordable. Imagine a full featured recording studio, full panoply of internal effects, unlimited tracks, track freeze and undo function that eliminates loss of hours of work from a careless misstep.... For fifty bucks! And this amazing app is based on the very popular Cubase desktop software from Steinberg.

Basically, for $500 One can set up a studio that would have been unobtainable in 2000 for twenty times that amount, with an array of instruments, quality effects, recording studio and sheer workflow delight based on poking an iPad, which is way more fun than clicking a mouse. And that includes purchase of a used iPad and basic keyboard.

Of course the platform still has a way to go, but those who dismiss iOS digital for acoustic may be missing the most exciting and democratic thing to come along since the model T put myriads of ordinary people into a machine all the kings and potentates of six thousand years of civilization could not acquire until 1900. Now the ordinary
( and usually financially pressed) musician can afford his or her own orchestra, jazz ensemble, choir, cathedral organ or rock band, available any time night or day and can take it along on their daily commute! And it is relatively easy to learn the ropes. Can anyone disagree how fantastic the opportunity is? And it will only improve exponentially.

Of course not everyone will want to do this, but even those who want to concentrate on the piano can lean tremendously about music from the most basic incursions in this area. And it is great fun! By the way, an iPhone will do almost as well as an iPad. I am not proselytizing here, but I do think it important that all musicians are at least aware of the possibilities that did not exist three years ago excepting an expensive desk or laptop format with a steep learning curve. Thanks for listening!


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B, Kawai MP11se, Casio AT5
Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2769022
10/02/18 10:21 AM
10/02/18 10:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 98
Western nc
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dat77 Offline
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I 'm not sure if the op means upright or vertical piano. I had a old kimball console some years ago that was awful. Was very hard to play hard to keep in tune. I stopped playing it, got rid of it. and bought a digital. The digital was so much better. Then 4 years ago I bought a 1974 yamaha u7. I love my u7. Also I have a mute rail in piano so I can play at night without disturbing neighbors. I think a digital is much better then having a upright that is in bad condition but if you have a good quality upright I prefer it over a digital. I love the feel and sound of a upright. I would like a grand but that may be in the future.

Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Bob] #2769071
10/02/18 01:01 PM
10/02/18 01:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,198
Oakland
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Originally Posted by Bob
Originally Posted by BDB
I tune Yamahas and Kawais from the 1960s which hold their tunings for a long time. That is the case with all of the quality instruments that I tune, and even most of the older and lower quality pianos.


Two things contribute to the tuning stability BDB enjoys. 1. His climate is very stable - humidity swings are limited. 2. BDB is an experienced technician who has learned how to produce long lasting, stable tunings. I have the same stability 9 months out of the year in Florida if the client uses A/C all the time. In northern climates (Georgia and north), that's not the case because humidity swings more winter to summer.

Some of my clients would be better off with a digital, rather than their rusty, broken down acoustic spinet, but they want an acoustic piano. As long as that attitude exists, acoustic uprights will remain. I predict over the next few decades, all those spinets will be tossed out, and taller uprights will be the norm for acoustic pianos, while shorter upright needs will be digital, and everyone will lust for that acoustic grand.

I was between acoustic pianos for 18 months, playing a digital. Then I bought a used Steinway L and I've not played the digital since.


The important part about tuning stability is that it is rarely the pin block that is problematic; it is the effect of environmental conditions.

In the debate about digital versus acoustic, it is also important to remember that not all digital instruments are tuned well, and that they are not maintenance free, except in those cases where they are replaced instead of repaired. The cost of maintenance differ, and it is hard to say which is cheaper: an acoustic piano that needs a little maintenance often, and major maintenance almost never, or a digital that needs major maintenance or replacement more often and very little minor maintenance.


Semipro Tech
Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2769086
10/02/18 02:02 PM
10/02/18 02:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 146
Tennessee
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Tennessee
I only have a digital but would like to add an upright. I'd learn pieces on the digital with headphones so as not to torture my family when playing the same 2 bars over and over and over. When decent on a new piece I'd play it on the upright. Maybe after I finish the second Faber book I'll reward good ole me with a good used upright.

I have to say it is a lot of fun to switch the digital to harpsichord strings, organ or electric piano and play a song to get a different sound. That is one big digital benefit.

Last edited by Chili_Time; 10/02/18 02:04 PM.

Started Playing October 1, 2017. First Lesson Oct. 17, 2017. Currently in Faber Piano Adventures Book 3a. Yamaha P-115.
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Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: IosPlayer] #2769126
10/02/18 05:59 PM
10/02/18 05:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,219
Reseda, California
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JohnSprung Offline
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Reseda, California
Originally Posted by IosPlayer
Six months ago I discovered iOS music making on the iPad. In the past three months I created two thirty minute long, four movement "Synthonies" and a dozen jazz pieces. All that music is piano centric and I used an average, noisy, Casio keyboard as a controller. .... I am not proselytizing here, but I do think it important that all musicians are at least aware of the possibilities that did not exist three years ago excepting an expensive desk or laptop format with a steep learning curve. Thanks for listening!


How does this compare with MuseScore (free notation editor) and sound fonts on an ordinary PC? Last time I looked (3-5 years ago?) some of the MuseScore guys had transcribed entire Beethoven symphonies and had them playing back rather well. MuseScore allows you to assign playback velocities and timing tweaks to notes and perhaps a few other tricks, to overcome the limited information content of traditional notation.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2769229
10/03/18 06:49 AM
10/03/18 06:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 928
Germany
patH Online content
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Germany
My two cents.

One problem with digital pianos is that if you put the volume too low, you tend to compensate by using more force to play the piano.
Another problem: The touch and feel of the keyboard. The best action available is from a grand piano. They are usually better than upright pianos; and these are usually better than non-hybrid digitals. Which is why I am not at all impressed with the prospect of using software for an iOS if I have to play a "basic keyboard".
And finally: An acoustic upright is not only a music instrument, but also a piece of furniture that (to me at least) looks and smells better than a digital piano.

These are already three reasons to pick an acoustic upright over a digital.
The great thing is that today you don't have to choose between one or the other; you can get what you want from both worlds in one instrument, by picking an acoustic piano with silent system; or a digital piano with real grand action.

Last edited by patH; 10/03/18 06:50 AM.

My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2769236
10/03/18 07:31 AM
10/03/18 07:31 AM
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Kawai K500 ATX or Aures or similar silent YUS Yamaha is probably good answer for acoustic/digital dilema. Good price and reliable acoustic action and digital system. Don`t get me wrong, I`d be rather some Bluthner, Bechstain etc with silent system, but price is very high and I dont know how reliable digital system is compare to experience that Yamaha or Kawai has with electronics.

Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2769292
10/03/18 12:07 PM
10/03/18 12:07 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,969
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
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A 20-year old , decent quality upright ( say a U1 @$4500) will outperform a comparably priced digital.

And it will last another 20-30 years, far longer than the digital.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Steve Cohen] #2769314
10/03/18 12:53 PM
10/03/18 12:53 PM
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South Wales
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Colin Miles Online content
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Originally Posted by Steve Cohen
A 20-year old , decent quality upright ( say a U1 @$4500) will outperform a comparably priced digital.

And it will last another 20-30 years, far longer than the digital.


Not sure I could get it upstairs and maybe a bit too heavy?

Width: 1530mm
Height: 1210mm
Depth: 610mm
Weight: 232KG

3 times the weight of my LX7. If I had the room downstairs, maybe.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2769336
10/03/18 01:31 PM
10/03/18 01:31 PM
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North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Offline
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Nothing wrong with any of these pianos ,they are all pieces of furniture even a grand .

Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Lady Bird] #2769344
10/03/18 02:33 PM
10/03/18 02:33 PM
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North of Los Angeles
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Learux Online content
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Nothing wrong with any of these pianos ,they are all pieces of furniture even a grand .


Especially a grand. Is there any furniture out there that looks better then a grand?



Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T
Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2769349
10/03/18 03:14 PM
10/03/18 03:14 PM
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North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Offline
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If you say so ! Many are so happy with thier uprights or digitals their delight is complete. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ! But I agree a grand very dramatic ,if you have the room

Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2769691
10/04/18 09:44 PM
10/04/18 09:44 PM
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Central PA
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I have a 6’ kawai grand and a digital and I only play the digital when necessary. Why? It’s not complicated, the experience of hitting a key on an acoustic and hearing that ringing tone in the instrument and the room is entirely unique. An acoustic piano is an experience unto its own. It’s that simple. You can not compare the two because it is apples and oranges. If you are in an environment where digital is best or if you like the whole digital experience that’s great. Yet the feel of an acoustic on your fingers and body and ears is something rich and beautiful. I love it, but to each their own.

Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2769737
10/05/18 04:09 AM
10/05/18 04:09 AM
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Lady Bird Offline
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Same here accoustic anyday .Heard a Forte Piano yesterday Even then would have chosen an accoustic? ??!!! Just JOKING ! that instrument was made in 1750 .

Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Timpskie] #2770090
10/06/18 04:29 PM
10/06/18 04:29 PM
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Lady Bird Offline
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I wonder if this argument was going on when the Forte Piano started to become popular .Yesterday in Paris we visited a musical instrument museum .We saw early music instruments such Lutes and recorders including other instrument such as the violin family .Then we saw beautiful clavichords and harpsichord .Through earphones we listened to what the different instruments sounded like .When it came to the first pianos we heard the Forte Piano .The sound was suddenly different and you knew Pianoworld was born ! How did people react in Mozarts day to this incredible clear bell like sound .You must have had the more conservative who preferred the clavichord or harpsichord .Yet the people who heard this music were only a privileged few .The harpsichords were really esquisite looking far better looking as furniture than the new MODERN Forte Pianos !

Re: why choose acoustic upright over digital [Re: Steve Cohen] #2770123
10/06/18 06:56 PM
10/06/18 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Cohen
A 20-year old , decent quality upright ( say a U1 @$4500) will outperform a comparably priced digital.

And it will last another 20-30 years, far longer than the digital.

I agree!

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