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Kawai ES110 clicking noise
#2768892 10/01/18 05:54 PM
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Hello.

I recently bought a Kawai ES110 which after a week of use developed the infamous "clicking keys" problem along with speaker rattling.
I sent it back and they replaced it for a new unit which arrived last week but guess what: the clicking noise appeared again on the new unit after a week of use but in different keys (the speaker rattle isn't back yet though, so it was still worth it). I've been searching these forums along with others (and youtube videos) and I'm suspecting that every ES110 (or at least most of them, and also other models like the ES8 and the previous ES100) have this clicking noise problem. I've read about people replacing 2 units in a row and they all having this clicking noise. Also read about Kawai fixing it and then the problem coming back shortly after.

So I would like to know the following: is there's anybody out there who can say "I don't have the clicking noise at all"? Because at this point I doubt it, and it would be nice to know if there's a 100% (or very high) chance of having the problem, so that it's not even worth considering sending it back again. I guess that if ALL units have this problem then it's not a defect (or it is but an unfixable one, hence it's kind of less frustrating).

Can any of the Kawai ES110 users tell me they don't have this clicking noise issue? It'd also be nice to have some kind of statistics for the people interested in buying this piano, they should know that they WILL have this issue.

Thank you all!

Best regards.

P.D: I just found this youtube video which displays the EXACT same behaviour as mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41vFFKpUZEA . The problem's in the same keys and also stops when I hold the left part of the case case with my hand, just like in the video.

Last edited by RodrigoPon; 10/01/18 05:55 PM.
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Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2768895 10/01/18 06:07 PM
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My ES110 is almost 7 months old. When powered off, I'm not experiencing anything that sounds remotely like that YouTube video. Just the expected sound of a key being pressed and returning to position. I'm very pleased with it from a mechanical and manufacturing standpoint.

Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
Steve.L #2768897 10/01/18 06:18 PM
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Thank you for your reply Steve.

I guess it's not 100% of them that are failed then. I'd like to have some kind of statistic in order to see if it's worth returning this one too. Also in that youtube video there's the following comment:

"I've already returned it to the dealer. We tried all ES110 they had on display and others they had in stock - they all rattled the same."

which is not encouraging at all. And its not the first time I read something like that, that's why I thought that if all ES110 users share their experience (and not only the ones with such defect) we could have some kind of statistic.

I'm also very pleased with the action, the sound, and everything else, except this clicking which is clearly audible even at full volume, unfortunately.

Best regards.

Last edited by RodrigoPon; 10/01/18 06:23 PM.
Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2768963 10/02/18 02:34 AM
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Hello RogrigoPon,

May I ask where you are based and where you purchased the instrument from, please?

Did the dealer (presumably the "they" you referred to) offer to send a technician to investigate the issue?

Kind regards,
James
x


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Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
Kawai James #2769026 10/02/18 09:37 AM
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Hello James.

I'm from Rio Cuarto, a small city in central Argentina. I purchased the piano in Buenos Aires which is 600 km away. The first one I got had the clicking issue and they didn't offer to send a technician, I don't think that's an option maybe because of the distance, but they told me to send it back and they sent a new one (which still has the same issue). They're Casa Breyer, which is a reputable dealer and the only Kawai dealer here in Argentina.

Thing is, I had to pay half of the shipping costs and had no piano for 2 months. It was still worth it because the first unit had a speaker vibration issue, but I'm not sure if its worth sending it back only for the clicking noise. It bothers me, I wish it wasn't there (it wasn't there last week when it arrived, which also happened with the first piano), but the amount of pianos with this exact same issue is alarming.

Id like to have an approximate % chance of having the issue. Apparently its not 100% as Steve above doesn't have it, but Im pretty sure its well over 50%. It needs to be high to have it twice in a row.

Thank you for your answer!
Best regards.

Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2769133 10/02/18 05:47 PM
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just a hypothesis, partly based on the relatively light weight of the kawai model under discussion. what if something in the action alignment goes off during transport ? do they ship the units with a bracket or brace that has to be removed from the moving action components before use ? when a technician is not available for adjustments and realignment, the potential for small but very audible flaws has to be a factor.

Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
huaidongxi #2769142 10/02/18 06:06 PM
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Maybe this is what actually happens, I dunno. Both my Pianos travelled at least 600 km from Buenos Aires to here, without counting how they got to Buenos Aires and from where. They both came in their original Kawai packaging which is basically a box where the piano is held firmly in place by 6 pieces of expanded polystyrene (2 in each corner and 2 in the middle) and also wrapped up in a soft plastic sheet. The packaging itself looks very solid but the keys are moving freely, there's nothing holding them in place and they may very well be bouncing during transport. And I don't even know if the piano was upside down or on the sides during the shipping, which would be an additional factor. Not much can be done about it though, other than re-designing the shipping package I guess, if that's actually the problem.

Last edited by RodrigoPon; 10/02/18 06:06 PM.
Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2769145 10/02/18 06:23 PM
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Hello RodrigoPon,

Thank you for the additional information. 600km is indeed quite a distance - it's unfortunate that you do not live closer to the store.

I'm afraid I don't have a great deal more to suggest, other than to continue to seek assistance from the retailer.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
Kawai James #2769146 10/02/18 06:32 PM
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I didn't contact the dealer yet because I don't want to spend extra time and money for nothing. I'll just wait and see if more people answer to help me decide what to do based on some sort of statistics. I need more people who own the ES110 and has no clicks to answer this post, to not be biased towards the problematic cases which are usually posted everywhere. Thank you James!

Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2769183 10/03/18 12:18 AM
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Quote
but the keys are moving freely, there's nothing holding them in place and they may very well be bouncing during transport


That's interesting. When I unpacked my Casio AP-650 the keys were held together with a strip of masking tape across the front vertical edge of the keys, reaching all the way from lowest bass to the highest treble key. Which seemed to be a rather clever way to keep them from bouncing around during shipping.


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Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2769186 10/03/18 12:42 AM
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Frank, yes, I believe Kawai employs a similar method for larger (and heavier) console instruments too.

However, do you know if this is still the case for Casio's portable Privia instruments, such as the PX-160?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2769187 10/03/18 12:57 AM
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Haven't a clue, since I've never unpacked one of those.

But since the only cost is four feet of masking tape and thirty seconds of someone's time to stick it on there, I don't see why it shouldn't be a common practice.


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We got both kinds of music: Country and Western!
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Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
FrankCox #2769224 10/03/18 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankCox
Haven't a clue, since I've never unpacked one of those.

But since the only cost is four feet of masking tape and thirty seconds of someone's time to stick it on there, I don't see why it shouldn't be a common practice.


Got an ultra cheap midi controller (Nektar 88+) and that came with the tape Frank stated...and that's a semi weighted instrument...

Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2769308 10/03/18 11:37 AM
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Even the Gear4Music SDP-4 comes with taped keys. (According to an unboxing video.)

But does it make a difference? The keys and hammers are supposed to move up and down for several years in normal use anyway.

Maybe it does(?)

Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
Kawai James #2769362 10/03/18 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Frank, yes, I believe Kawai employs a similar method for larger (and heavier) console instruments too.

However, do you know if this is still the case for Casio's portable Privia instruments, such as the PX-160?

Kind regards,
James
x

The PX-160 that I received via FedEx today did indeed have tape across the keys to hold them in place. smile


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Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
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Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2769369 10/03/18 04:11 PM
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So could this be the problem? In that case its a packaging design flaw and there isn't any hope, but Kawai should be noted about it. As somebody said this is ridiculously easy and cheap to fix for future units. Any other ES110 users around who can share their experiences?

Congrats on your new PX-160 Theophilus. I was considering these two pianos before buying the Kawai. On paper I prefer the ES110 but in reality, considering the clicking noise of the Kawai, I'm not sure anymore. Before my ES110 I had a 5 year old used PX-135 with no clicking or weird noises at all.

Thank you all!

Last edited by RodrigoPon; 10/03/18 04:17 PM.
Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2769425 10/03/18 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RodrigoPon
Congrats on your new PX-160 Theophilus. I was considering these two pianos before buying the Kawai. On paper I prefer the ES110 but in reality, considering the clicking noise of the Kawai, I'm not sure anymore. Before my ES110 I had a 5 year old used PX-135 with no clicking or weird noises at all.

Thanks! I've spent a couple of hours on it so far, and I'm very pleased. It's a replacement / upgrade for the PX-830 I bought six and a half years ago, and they've really improved the action since then (Tri-Sensor II as opposed to the old Tri-Sensor I). The keys feel more solid and they're weighted a little heavier, more like the acoustic pianos I dabble on at work when I sneak over to the music department. smile There's only one key that's looser than I'd like, but it's D1, so I'm not likely to play it too often, and it's not that bad in any case.


Decent upright bassist; aspiring decent pianist
Present: Roland DP-603, Roland FP-30, Casio CDP-130
Past: Casio PX-830, Casio PX-160
Etc.: Yamaha MX61, PianoTeq Stage 6 (Bechstein, Bluethner, U4, Vibes, Xylo), Roland KC-80
Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
RodrigoPon #2769525 10/04/18 08:28 AM
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The ES 110 is the keyboard I use for jazz gigs. I've never noticed any undue clicking sounds. I really like the keyboard because it's very light and had a good touch.

Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
jjo #2769667 10/04/18 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TheophilusCarter
Originally Posted by RodrigoPon
Congrats on your new PX-160 Theophilus. I was considering these two pianos before buying the Kawai. On paper I prefer the ES110 but in reality, considering the clicking noise of the Kawai, I'm not sure anymore. Before my ES110 I had a 5 year old used PX-135 with no clicking or weird noises at all.

Thanks! I've spent a couple of hours on it so far, and I'm very pleased. It's a replacement / upgrade for the PX-830 I bought six and a half years ago, and they've really improved the action since then (Tri-Sensor II as opposed to the old Tri-Sensor I). The keys feel more solid and they're weighted a little heavier, more like the acoustic pianos I dabble on at work when I sneak over to the music department. smile There's only one key that's looser than I'd like, but it's D1, so I'm not likely to play it too often, and it's not that bad in any case.


Cool! My PX-135 also had the Tri-Sensor I, I never tried the Tri-Sensor II but the Tri-Sensor I wasn't bad. They also improved the sound: our x30 series had AiF and the x60 series have AiR, not sure how much better it is though. I always thougt AiF needed more sustain, specially because I mainly play classical music, piano solo.

Originally Posted by jjo
The ES 110 is the keyboard I use for jazz gigs. I've never noticed any undue clicking sounds. I really like the keyboard because it's very light and had a good touch.


Thank you for replying. I think the clicking sound problem even though it's pretty loud, may go unnoticed. Specially if gigging at loud volumes. I suppose it could be thought as "normal" if it was the same on all the keys, but I have it only on the 1st octave being loudest on F1 key.
...or, maybe you're luckiy and simply don't have it!

Re: Kawai ES110 clicking noise
clothearednincompo #2769709 10/04/18 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo

But does it make a difference? The keys and hammers are supposed to move up and down for several years in normal use anyway.


That's what I was wondering. I mean, if there's one thing that piano keys are definitely designed to do, it's to bounce.I should imagine that enough force to damage the keys somehow by bouncing them would also damage the actual unit itself.

That's only a guess, but it did spring to mind.

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