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Re: Modartt releases ANT. PETROF 275 concert grand for Pianoteq
peterws #2768309 09/29/18 05:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
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I have indeed stayed with it. For about eight years.
Originally Posted by peterws
These things take time; stay with it, play with it.
I've tried every demo release of Pianoteq since version 2. That version was intensely horrible, and version 3 was almost as bad. Versions 4+ are better, but still they all sound fake.

I know what it is so sit in front of a proper acoustic piano, and yet the sound of Pianoteq is that of a piano that is set "somewhere else". It's not here. It's in another room. It just doesn't have presence. (And that's just for the lowest four octaves. The upper three have an even less satisfying tinkling tone that I find abhorrent.)

I wish Modartt would stop building model after model (Steinway, Steingraeber, Petrof, Bechstein, Grotrian, etc.) and instead focus on making just one of them ... just one ... sound like a piano.

Perhaps the problem derives from my dislike of the modern pop piano sound? A piano that "cuts through the mix" does not interest me. I'm only interested in the sound of solo piano performance. Authenticity is no never mind for many forms of modern music. But it matters a lot to me.

Elsewhere on this board, when discussing sampled VSTs, there are fussy discussions over the lack of proper half-pedaling, the tech-derived dropouts and clicks, the inadequate dynamics, and on and on. These things are important. But they are mere flaws in an otherwise almost-real sampled piano sound. They are minor crystalline inclusions in an otherwise flawless diamond. Whereas Pianoteq is a piece of broken glass pretending to be a gemstone.

It just doesn't work for me.

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Re: Modartt releases ANT. PETROF 275 concert grand for Pianoteq
Nor #2768324 09/29/18 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Smaug
A couple of years ago, as a side project, I built my own modelled piano. I read the latest literature, implemented the equations and built a simple AudioUnits plugin of Mac. It was not a pretty sound, but it was a start and gave me more of an understanding of what's required. The main thing I learnt was that the string attack and sustain waves can be well modelled, but what is difficult to capture is the interaction with the soundboard. The most realistic-sounding models were those that took an impulse response of a piano soundboard (literally by hitting the bridge with a hammer!) and convolved that with what was being generated by the purely physically modelled string equations. I would consider this a data/modelling coupling. Maybe Modart needs to do similarly. Just speculation...

I'm thinking I should put what I have on GitHub and turn this into a community project. It would be great to have an open-source physical piano model.



A good idea! So you can collect ideas from people from different fields of knowledge and from different points of the world!

Re: Modartt releases ANT. PETROF 275 concert grand for Pianoteq
Smaug #2768327 09/29/18 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Smaug

I'm thinking I should put what I have on GitHub and turn this into a community project. It would be great to have an open-source physical piano model.


Bring it on. We also need a Linux distro dedicated only to Piano vst. So you turn on the laptop and the piano is ready to play without waiting for any boot up.

Re: Modartt releases ANT. PETROF 275 concert grand for Pianoteq
Smaug #2768329 09/29/18 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Smaug
A couple of years ago, as a side project, I built my own modelled piano. I read the latest literature, implemented the equations and built a simple AudioUnits plugin of Mac. It was not a pretty sound, but it was a start and gave me more of an understanding of what's required. The main thing I learnt was that the string attack and sustain waves can be well modelled, but what is difficult to capture is the interaction with the soundboard. The most realistic-sounding models were those that took an impulse response of a piano soundboard (literally by hitting the bridge with a hammer!) and convolved that with what was being generated by the purely physically modelled string equations. I would consider this a data/modelling coupling. Maybe Modart needs to do similarly. Just speculation...

I'm thinking I should put what I have on GitHub and turn this into a community project. It would be great to have an open-source physical piano model.


Great idea! why not!


—Nor

KAWAI MP7—KORG TRITON EXTREME—VILABS TRUEKEYS & RAVENSCROFT—AS YAMAHA C7 & KAWAI EX PRO—GARRITAN CFX FULL CONCERT—PIANOTEQ 6 PRO—IVORY II AMERICAN CONCERT D—M-TRACK HUB—YAMAHA HS50—PreSonus HD7—JTS HP 535—NI NOIRE—BIG SWING GRAND—EASTWEST PIANOS GOLD BUNDLE
Re: Modartt releases ANT. PETROF 275 concert grand for Pianoteq
MacMacMac #2768378 09/29/18 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Smaug
A couple of years ago, as a side project, I built my own modelled piano. ...I'm thinking I should put what I have on GitHub and turn this into a community project. It would be great to have an open-source physical piano model.

Impressive project! It would be nice to drop it on GitHub. I think it would be fun to play and to learn from. With some luck, a few experts might drop in and help bring this to the next level.

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wish Modartt would stop building model after model (Steinway, Steingraeber, Petrof, Bechstein, Grotrian, etc.) and instead focus on making just one of them ... just one ... sound like a piano.

Agreed.

Maybe the PianoTeq "engine" is near practical limits. Maybe PianoTeq don't have another "engine" in the pipeline. Maybe marketing figured that releasing more "piano models" boosts revenues a lot more than releasing a refined version of the "engine."

Re: Modartt releases ANT. PETROF 275 concert grand for Pianoteq
newer player #2768387 09/29/18 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Originally Posted by Smaug
A couple of years ago, as a side project, I built my own modelled piano. ...I'm thinking I should put what I have on GitHub and turn this into a community project. It would be great to have an open-source physical piano model.

Impressive project! It would be nice to drop it on GitHub. I think it would be fun to play and to learn from. With some luck, a few experts might drop in and help bring this to the next level.

Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wish Modartt would stop building model after model (Steinway, Steingraeber, Petrof, Bechstein, Grotrian, etc.) and instead focus on making just one of them ... just one ... sound like a piano.

Agreed.

Maybe the PianoTeq "engine" is near practical limits. Maybe PianoTeq don't have another "engine" in the pipeline. Maybe marketing figured that releasing more "piano models" boosts revenues a lot more than releasing a refined version of the "engine."

Hmm...Despite I love Pianoteq I partially agree, I am not crazy for new piano every couple of months compare to like was before at the half way to new version and that make some questions. But I dont like to make some arbitrary statements. Maybe its true what you say, maybe not. Time will tell. In the meantime we can all enjoy in piano we like the most. Every bird to own nest. Pianoteq is still my first choice for serious practicing on digital piano.

Last edited by slobajudge; 09/29/18 12:46 PM.
Re: Modartt releases ANT. PETROF 275 concert grand for Pianoteq
Nor #2768467 09/29/18 09:41 PM
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Kawai MP11 : JBL LSR305 : Focusrite 2i4 : Pianoteq / Garritan CFX

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