Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum 1983 New York Steinway Model M. Good vintage?

Certificates don’t help is my experience. The real problem as I see it (at least in the Netherlands) is that most technicians merely tune piano’s and don’t have enough experience or interest in maintenance and or voicing. The other problem is that a lot of technicians try to survive in a difficult market and tend to sell b*llsh*t just to get some work. Very often really good piano technicians are very busy and are not interested in maintenance of piano’s that are privately owned.

Sadly that is my personal experience.

It is understandable (although a pity) that the piano business is often compared with the car business, and that can not be taken as a compliment...

I get most of my work from referrals and pay no money for advertising. And i stay busy year round. Asking around for referrals is the best way to weed out the chaff. Get more than one referral (i recommend two or three). Then go and visit their shops, and see and hear their work. This will accomplish two things. 1. You will be able to compare their work to each others. 2. You get to find the Technician you click with personality wise.
Under those conditions, I put my work besides anybody's. And that's the kind of technician you should look for in your area.
-chris

Just a quick update:

I played the piano today. It's obvious that it is going to need a lot of work. I don't think the seller (private party) is willing to acknowledge this in reducing his price. He and I had a lovely meeting. Nothing contentious. But I don't think I'll pursue this piano any further.

Also, it was purchased in 1983, but it has a 1982 serial number.

My understanding was that 1982 Steinways still had teflon bushings. Is that correct? If so, that further cements my disinterest in the piano.

Thanks for all your help.

You can see Teflon bushings from the top of the piano. Look at the center pin joints at the bass/tenor split. If the pin goes through a white bushing, it is Teflon. If it is red, it is felt (or actually, Teflon 2 which is felt impregnated with Teflon).

But it does not matter if you do not like the piano.

My personal piano is a 1980 Steinway "M". The hammer shanks are felt and the rest of the action is Teflon. All original. Obviously a transition period.

And presumably you have not felt it necessary to change out the Teflon in the rest of the action, even in a climate like Florida's.

Oh I'd like to re-string it and put in a new action, but who ever has time to work on their own piano!

I think it's going to at least need new strings and a new action. Maybe a new pin block. Definitely a thorough professional cleaning. The reasonable scuffs and scratches don't bother me, but someone more keen to aesthetics over function would want to paint and polish.

The owner is offering at what would be the price for one in perfect condition (North of $20,000.00). But I don't think he wants to acknowledge that it probably needs at least five or maybe ten thousand dollars worth of work, or more.

And, frankly, I don't want to go through the trouble of trying to explain this to him and convince him of it. The seller's an extraordinarily nice man, and he's acting in good faith, but he isn't a pianist, so I don't think he appreciates some of my genuine concerns.

I'm sure he'll be able to sell it to someone who just wants a nice decoration that says "Steinway & Sons" on it.

Well, since you have offered no details why you think it needs new strings and action, nobody can really assess the piano from a distance. I tune a lot of Steinways much older than 1983 with the original strings and action, and the strings and actions do not need replacement. But if you do not want the piano, that is your opinion. It need not pertain to anyone else.

It is better to simply walk away as you did rather than try to "convince" him that it "ain't what he thinks it is". In his mind you would be trying to "pull the wool over his eyes".

Pwg

North of $20,000 is high if it really needs that type of work. If you have not had a tech take a look, you might want to invest in that. 1983 is not likely to have teflon if the serial number is really from 1983. You can always ask Steinway if you have the serial number. Age related issues aside, if it has not been played that much, I would suggest keeping in touch with the seller, who as you say is not a pianist. Eventually if he has enough potential buyers walk away he may lower the price, especially if he has had offers from dealers.

For top performance, most pianos from 1983 would need some work and anyone who is knowledgeable would have a good understanding of that. But the other end of the spectrum could be that it was in a school or church for years before he acquired it. It could really be a mess but replacing action and strings because of age costs no more than replacing the same items because of abuse. Either way they gotta go. It is a domino thing where you have to replace pin block, strings, dampers etc. all at one time anyway. The extras could be new bridge caps, or serious soundboard matters. It is less money for the little details than for the big things but if you don't care how it looks the cosmetic issues can be overlooked.

If you in fact like the piano but have doubts about its condition, you would be wise to have it closely examined by a qualified piano technician (one who is willing to stand behind his/her analysis).

Remain emotionally unattached throughout.

Once you get a condition report and recommendations, make a decision as to how much you would be willing to pay for it on that basis (whatever it is). Then make the offer to the seller and leave it at that. By doing this you are telling him that you are serious, but at "x" price. This gives him SOMETHING to go on. As it is, it sounds like you are simply a disinterested looker, and he has no reason come back to you later.

The cost of an inspection is negligible if you are serious. If you are a "tire kicker" then it does becone significant.

He may be unrealistic about what he wants for it, but that will take time and repeated statements by those who are knowledgeable. When that time comes, you want to be the first person he calls to negotiate.

Pwg

You're going to need a regular tuner/technician to maintain whatever piano you buy. That's the person who should do the evaluation, with the understanding that the piano will be on their to do list as long as you own it.

There should be a piano technicians guild in your area you can check with.

Best of luck to you at this exciting time!

Steve

I don't think anyone has addressed this question.

My experience with them - is mainly with C3s, and I'd consider them a nicer piano than the C1 or C2s I've played. Just check that they haven't been worn out - not sure about USA, but they're a popular teaching piano here, and the two I spent most time playing were in Churches. They are quite rugged and stable with tuning.

I've only played a couple of C5s, and liked them to play on. One was new, the other an older, but barely played home piano - being Yamaha, should be a solid piano.

Whatever you buy, get a technician to appraise it.

PTFE = P oly T etra F luor E thylene = scientific / chemical material name

TEFLON (TM) = trademark of same stuff

teflon bushings/bearings you might find in NYC made Steinway grands built from 1961 to 1982.

But be careful, several grands made in that range of years might be sold afterwards, so look to the serial number, and if in that range, pull the mechanism and have a look.

The PTFE bearings look like tiny white-to-yellow maccaroni, instead of red felt.

You can also buy a Teflon mechanism but it might happen trhat there occurs some noise in "transient" times over the year, it is related to contraction and expansion of wood which is not done parallely in the bearings.Such noise normally does not occur with felt bearings.