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Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: Whizbang] #2766806
09/21/18 05:59 AM
09/21/18 05:59 AM
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michaelvi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Whizbang
Throw yourself into ragtime, bossa nova, tango. Butcher it for a long time. Don't stress but try to make it sound like the music you listen to. It will come

Intuitively I understand that this suggestion makes a lot of sense. But unfortunately those are not quite my music genres (with rare exceptions)

Originally Posted by PianogrlNW
Do you spend time listening to music? It could be folk, bluegrass, jazz or rap.
I do listen a lot but almost only classical music. Also pop and rock that was popular when I was a teenager (ABBA, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd) but that is also very selectively.

Originally Posted by PianogrlNW
Do you dance?
My daughter has spent first 25 years of her live on ballroom dances and even became teacher and international judge. I of course always supported her to the maximum possible extend but still don't understand this kind of art at all. However, things like this one for example hugely impress me (is it possible to "reconstruct" this on piano?)

Originally Posted by PianogrlNW
You might be interested in this John Mortensen video on how pianists give low priority to rhythmic issues and what to do about it.
Very interesting indeed! Thank you!

Thank you all for your answers! This thread did trigger some new thoughts and gave me very good suggestions. I'll try to work further on this issue...


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Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767276
09/24/18 12:24 AM
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Can you hear how steady and precise his rhythm and inner pulse is?






Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: PianogrlNW] #2767380
09/24/18 12:49 PM
09/24/18 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by PianogrlNW
Can you hear how steady and precise his rhythm and inner pulse is?

Honestly? No. Sorry... I don't hear (feel, see, whatever) ANY rhythm (or pulse) in this song...


Started 2016-01-29
Casio Privia PX-760 => Garritan CFX Lite, Ravenscroft 275 => Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 =>ATH-40mx, Sennheiser HD598, JBL LSR305
Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: PianogrlNW] #2767382
09/24/18 01:01 PM
09/24/18 01:01 PM
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michaelvi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by PianogrlNW
Can you hear how steady and precise his rhythm and inner pulse is?

UPDATE: after 3rd try I think I heard some pulse while he was playing at the beginning, until he started singing. Then I lost it...

Last edited by michaelvi; 09/24/18 01:03 PM.

Started 2016-01-29
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Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767401
09/24/18 03:16 PM
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Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767407
09/24/18 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelvi
I do listen a lot but almost only classical music.

If classical music is your forte, this should do the trick thumb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ORHVroiWHk

And the audience shows you how to clap in time too - even without the conductor's help grin.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: emenelton] #2767416
09/24/18 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by emenelton

For me it is clearly 4/4 but I won't be surprised you you tell me I am wrong


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Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767437
09/24/18 06:11 PM
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Great subject! Really insightful comments and instructive links - thanks. I am only 4 months in and started doing eighth notes which exposed a rhythmic weakness. I am either counting or using metronome on everything now! I'm pretty stubborn when I put my mind to something so it will come....it has to come...


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Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: PianogrlNW] #2767440
09/24/18 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PianogrlNW
Do you spend time listening to music? It could be folk, bluegrass, jazz or rap. Do you dance? Some pianists have a good inner pulse and others do not. It is something that can be learned. Do you run or walk? That is rhythmic. Try counting as you walk, tapping out tunes on the kitchen counter.

You might be interested in this John Mortensen video on how pianists give low priority to rhythmic issues and what to do about it.






Thank you so much for posting this. He sounds great. I have subscribed to his channel now.


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Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767441
09/24/18 06:51 PM
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I agree with all that said count out loud. That is the only way I could seem to learn.


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Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767448
09/24/18 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelvi
Originally Posted by PianogrlNW
Can you hear how steady and precise his rhythm and inner pulse is?

UPDATE: after 3rd try I think I heard some pulse while he was playing at the beginning, until he started singing. Then I lost it...

Let your foot or hand tap with the music; No need to count or figure out how many beats per measure. Don’t over think it.



Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767459
09/24/18 09:27 PM
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Try this piece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyiLIIx2sEI It is entertaining and you'll hear the rhythm before the end of it. (I don't know how to make links)

You could acquire a CD for a ballet class. beginner level. Select one where the pianist uses classical music since it is your preferred music. There will be several different rhythms, well accented.

Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767462
09/24/18 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelvi
Originally Posted by emenelton

For me it is clearly 4/4 but I won't be surprised you you tell me I am wrong


Maybe I do that too much but you’ve only been at it two and half years. That is only a short amount of time. I’ve been there. Spend your time on the basics. That tony rice video was so complicated. Take the queen video and count to that while tapping. Count eighths too.

Anyways your absolutely right; it’s 4/4



Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: PianogrlNW] #2767520
09/25/18 07:49 AM
09/25/18 07:49 AM
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Quote
Can you hear how steady and precise his rhythm and inner pulse is?


This is a really tricky example of ""pulse", IMHO !

What he's done is to minimize (eliminate?) the _dynamics_ that mark the "strong beat" of the 4/4 rhythm. So Michaelvi's comment -- "There's a pulse?" -- is understandable.

But that rhythm shows up very strongly if you listen to the _melodic pattern_ of his arpeggiated playing. Once or twice per measure, the lowest note of the guitar pattern (for whatever chord he's playing) falls on the "1" or the "3". It's not accented much (if at all); you have to listen for the chord changes.

And once you hear that, and listen for it, you realize that it's rock-steady playing.

Thanks !


. Charles
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Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767535
09/25/18 08:53 AM
09/25/18 08:53 AM
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This thread (both the OP's posts and some of the replies) has me scratching my head wondering whether adult beginners really do jump in at the deep end and believe they will be able to swim immediately, and if they can't, believe that something is wrong confused.

OK, on that basis, here's an easy-peasy piece with a clear rhythm grin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c92Nmg6gTIo

Alternatively, one might admit that the ability to swim isn't something you're born with (because we haven't evolved into fish yet), and thus need to take lessons and learn it properly.

From something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P1HCW2CwkQ

then this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82haNPKa1W0

And exercises like this is as fast as you need to go. One thing at a time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5N9TgILtYg


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767547
09/25/18 10:32 AM
09/25/18 10:32 AM
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Rhythm was never a metronome; rhythm was never a counting ; rhythm is a part of national culture! Or you join her, or you ask how to develop a sense of rhythm!


Last edited by Nahum; 09/25/18 10:35 AM.
Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: bennevis] #2767558
09/25/18 11:29 AM
09/25/18 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bennevis
This thread (both the OP's posts and some of the replies) has me scratching my head wondering whether adult beginners really do jump in at the deep end
OK, on that basis, here's an easy-peasy piece with a clear rhythm grin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c92Nmg6gTIo



That’s a very funny video.

In my opinion, an adult that is smart in other things but is a beginner at playing a musical instrument, thinks their rational upper level thought processes, which actually are a distraction, will allow them to think themselves into acquiring a new skill like playing in time.

Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: michaelvi] #2767567
09/25/18 12:04 PM
09/25/18 12:04 PM
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Trying to remember how I learned this.

Physically with a dash of brain thrown in, rather than the other way around, I guess.

In band we did a lot of counting out loud - one-two-three-four for quarter notes, one-and-two-and-three-and-four-and for eight notes, one-ee-and-a-two-ee-and-a-three-ee-and-a for sixteenth notes. speaking out loud turned it from a mathematical exercise into a physical experience.

Dance was also helpful - because at the level I was at, it was kept simple - big movement on the strong beat of the measure, what ever that beat happened to be.

Still is helpful - I think I mentioned at one point that I indulge myself in a flamenco lesson every now and then. Interesting - the rhythm there gets nuts, and the counting conventions are not intuitive at first - certain dance forms will start on 12 rather than 1, for example. My teacher encourages us to "sing it, don't count it", and that does help in many circumstances.

One other thing I notice when listening to professionals is that if they're playing really fast, I loose my sense of the details of the rhythm, even though the speed may actually bring out the underlying pulse better. So I would definitely use simple music while trying to get my bearings.


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Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: Medved1] #2767587
09/25/18 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Medved1
Trying to remember how I learned this.

Physically with a dash of brain thrown in, rather than the other way around, I guess.

counting out loud -

one-two-three-four for quarter notes, one-and-two-and-three-and-four-and for eight notes, one-ee-and-a-two-ee-and-a-three-ee-and-a for sixteenth notes.

speaking out loud turned it from a mathematical exercise into a physical experience.

So I would definitely use simple music while trying to get my bearings.



It’s arguable that rhythm is not a skill but a primitive instinct

Re: How can I improve my rhythm hearing? [Re: emenelton] #2767593
09/25/18 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by emenelton

It’s arguable that rhythm is not a skill but a primitive instinct

And the more the mind interferes, the more it hinders to the rhythm.

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