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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: peterws] #2765386
09/14/18 04:27 AM
09/14/18 04:27 AM
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Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Online content
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It is a little unseemly for Americans to dismiss saving energy even if it's a small amount. Sorry, Mac.

Americans represent five percent of the planet's population and consume 24 percent of its energy. smile


Last edited by Dave Horne; 09/14/18 04:28 AM.

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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: MacMacMac] #2765428
09/14/18 09:23 AM
09/14/18 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac

But to worry about 0.5 W of standby power? How do you spell pfththththpf?


Half a watt is quite a lot. You could have 20 such things in your house - that's 10 watts all the time they're doing nothing. Prout illustrated what that means on a regional or national scale. I'd have thought standby functions should be able to function on a fraction of that. Though don't ask me how, from an engineering point of view smile ....or just get up and switch stuff off - reduce obesity.


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: Dave Horne] #2765435
09/14/18 09:48 AM
09/14/18 09:48 AM
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Posts: 7,303
Northern England.
peterws Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Dave Horne
It is a little unseemly for Americans to dismiss saving energy even if it's a small amount. Sorry, Mac.

Americans represent five percent of the planet's population and consume 24 percent of its energy. smile



Then it would seem that a radical solution is needed . . . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: peterws] #2765441
09/14/18 10:25 AM
09/14/18 10:25 AM
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... and now look what you did Peter with this thread, what's next on the list ... climate change ? laugh

... but in all seriousness, a thread like this is quite useful to be reminded, I admit in my case it became pure habit. The KRKs are behind the piano, I always switch those off after use , since they don't get used as often, I use headphones most days.

I have focals also (with autostandby build in) which are my music listening desktop speakers these days and they do get used most days. I never bother switching those off, I just let the auto standby do its thing, ... but ... from here on out I'll switch them off at the end of the day. The switches are easy enough to reach. As I said, it was just habit, so thanks for the reminder. I do it with everything else so ... for good measure since it does add over time. smile


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: peterws] #2765444
09/14/18 10:28 AM
09/14/18 10:28 AM
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Southwestern Ontario
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Well Mac, when your power goes out with Florence, even you will be contributing to a reduction in greenhouse gases.

I hope you are fairing well. That is one bad-ass storm.

Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: Dave Horne] #2765449
09/14/18 10:39 AM
09/14/18 10:39 AM
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Posts: 7,271
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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We're very energetic! smile
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
It is a little unseemly for Americans to dismiss saving energy even if it's a small amount. Sorry, Mac.
Americans represent five percent of the planet's population and consume 24 percent of its energy. smile
Anyway, wikipedia shows that the overwhelming winner of the electric consumption race is ... industry. This holds across all industrialized nations.

So per capita consumption is deceptive. Consumption per unit of industrial output would be more meaningful.

The notion that 5% of the world's population consumes 24% of the energy (where did those figures come from?) implies that their industrial output is around five times the world average.

This is called winning. (But one ought never rest on one's laurels. China is on hot on our heels.)

Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: Alexander Borro] #2765454
09/14/18 10:46 AM
09/14/18 10:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,303
Northern England.
peterws Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Alexander Borro
... and now look what you did Peter with this thread, what's next on the list ... climate change ? laugh

... but in all seriousness, a thread like this is quite useful to be reminded, I admit in my case it became pure habit. The KRKs are behind the piano, I always switch those off after use , since they don't get used as often, I use headphones most days.

I have focals also (with autostandby build in) which are my music listening desktop speakers these days and they do get used most days. I never bother switching those off, I just let the auto standby do its thing, ... but ... from here on out I'll switch them off at the end of the day. The switches are easy enough to reach. As I said, it was just habit, so thanks for the reminder. I do it with everything else so ... for good measure since it does add over time. smile


Funny you mentioned this. I find that I will have to switch the bluddy things off if I want to use headphones . . . .because when they stand by, one note from the piano should set 'em off again. Dunno what i was thinking about. It wasn't climate change . . .
So i cancelled the order.


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: MacMacMac] #2765459
09/14/18 10:54 AM
09/14/18 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
We're very energetic! smile
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
It is a little unseemly for Americans to dismiss saving energy even if it's a small amount. Sorry, Mac.
Americans represent five percent of the planet's population and consume 24 percent of its energy. smile
Anyway, wikipedia shows that the overwhelming winner of the electric consumption race is ... industry. This holds across all industrialized nations.

So per capita consumption is deceptive. Consumption per unit of industrial output would be more meaningful.

The notion that 5% of the world's population consumes 24% of the energy (where did those figures come from?) implies that their industrial output is around five times the world average.

This is called winning. (But one ought never rest on one's laurels. China is on hot on our heels.)


Surely the problem is not industrial production, but end-user consumption. So it's not who is making the stuff that's the problem, it's the ones who are consuming the products, so on the contrary, looking at the problem from a consumption driven point of view: China, clean and lean, USA and Europe, corpulent culprits.


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: peterws] #2765461
09/14/18 11:03 AM
09/14/18 11:03 AM
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So Mac, you do realize that the oceans exist because of individual raindrops, and that people are elected to office by single votes?

Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: toddy] #2765465
09/14/18 11:28 AM
09/14/18 11:28 AM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
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Nope. It's industry ... though I don't think of it as a problem.
Originally Posted by toddy
Surely the problem is not industrial production, but end-user consumption. So it's not who is making the stuff that's the problem, it's the ones who are consuming the products, so on the contrary, looking at the problem from a consumption driven point of view: China, clean and lean, USA and Europe, corpulent culprits.
Shutting off a standby device ... or shutting down ALL standby devices ... will not reduce industrial consumption at all. Not at all. It's industry usage, not consumer usage.

But China is lean, you say? China is clean?

China's energy consumption is 20% greater than that of the US. That's not lean. (We're not the biggest consumers of power anymore.)
And 78% of their electricity comes from fossil fuel. That's not clean. (Try breathing the air in Beijing.)
So ... replace lean and clean with fat and dirty.

I don't see consolidated figures for Europe. Only country-by-country stats.
But the Netherlands get 81% of its electricity from fossil fuels, more than UK, France, Germany, Ukraine, Sweden, Norway, Belgium, Finland, Russia, or Turkey.
In Europe only Poland is higher, with 89%.
(I don't see stats for Italy, Portugal, Greece, or the former Soviet holdings ... they probably don't fall into the top fifty.)

Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: peterws] #2765479
09/14/18 12:14 PM
09/14/18 12:14 PM
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If there wasn't demand (consumption) there wouldn't be industry.

Industry itself is fine. We can live in a civilised way, we can eventually plan for a better future. That's all fine. But hypermass production for hypermass consumption: that is not fine. Who are the hypermass consumers? Mostly USA and Europe and a few other rich countries. But some of us are aware there's a problem. Not good enough but it's a start.

Consumption is the problem, not industry, which is a mere consequence.


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: MacMacMac] #2765495
09/14/18 01:52 PM
09/14/18 01:52 PM
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Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Online content
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The notion that 5% of the world's population consumes 24% of the energy (where did those figures come from?) implies that their industrial output is around five times the world average.

Consumption by the United States

Here's a link with usage per household.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country...ity/Consumption-by-households-per-capita


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: toddy] #2765527
09/14/18 04:25 PM
09/14/18 04:25 PM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Neither one is a problem. Both are signs of prosperity.
Originally Posted by toddy
Consumption is the problem, not industry, which is a mere consequence.

Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: peterws] #2765532
09/14/18 04:39 PM
09/14/18 04:39 PM
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SoundThumb Offline
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MacMacMac's point was that the standby consumption is trivial. What does trivial mean? At .5W, that is 12 Wh/ day or 4.4 kWh / year. I live in a state with high electricity rates of 21 cents / kWh. That means a standby consumption of .5 W costs about 12 cents/year. Compare that to our monthly bill which is about $250 / month. Turning off a speaker that has standby mode will not save the planet, it may make us feel good, but if we really want to feel good, we should be looking at the other $249.99 / month of electricity that we are using.


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: peterws] #2765535
09/14/18 04:44 PM
09/14/18 04:44 PM
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Or not even worry about the $249.99 ... and just get back to the piano! smile

Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: SoundThumb] #2765536
09/14/18 04:47 PM
09/14/18 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundThumb
Turning off a speaker that has standby mode will not save the planet, it may make us feel good, but if we really want to feel good, we should be looking at the other $249.99 / month of electricity that we are using.


Oh I completely agree! You should be looking at he 249.99 expenditure first. But set against that is

1. At least some f that two hundred dollars electric bill is necessary to function in our society, so unless you go totally radical, that'll only get you so far
2. The standby may be trivial in terms of charge, but it's also absolutely unnecessary, so a concerted effort might be of some positive value.

But I know what you and Mac are getting at: if we veer too closely to tokenism and virtue signalling, we deserve to be lambasted. I think there's a happy medium.


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: MacMacMac] #2765538
09/14/18 04:51 PM
09/14/18 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Or not even worry about the $249.99 ... and just get back to the piano! smile


LOL, Well I must admit that I did worry enough about it to have solar panels installed on my roof, so now my bill is zero. Oh and I mostly play my acoustic piano so the keyboards are off.


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: peterws] #2765540
09/14/18 04:57 PM
09/14/18 04:57 PM
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Northern England.
peterws Offline OP
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The Underground Solution would take us out of the need to heat homes or even argue about it! . . . . the further down you go, the more des res it becomes . . . up to a certain point. Electricity of course, is heat sourced further down. Much further down.


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: peterws] #2765544
09/14/18 05:06 PM
09/14/18 05:06 PM
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Energy is not a problem in the US. The President, our stable genius, strongly supports bringing back coal as well as turning back the regulations on methane (which is 27 times worse than CO2).

I hold two passports, guess which one I travel under. smile

As I wrote earlier, it is unseemly when Americans make light of energy conservation. I'll include a link showing what some of us pay for gasoline and diesel.

http://www.mytravelcost.com/petrol-prices/

smile


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Re: Stand-by feature on Monitors [Re: peterws] #2765550
09/14/18 05:30 PM
09/14/18 05:30 PM
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San Diego, CA
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This is actually a very good discussion. The OP was interested in monitors with a standby option and that is something that we should all consider. The amp that I measured had a standby consumption of less than 0.05 W and an on consumption of about 10 W. So an amp without standby would consume 10 Wh in one hour or forget to turn it off manually for a day and you have wasted 240 Wh of electricity. If you had bought a monitor with the standby feature, you are using about that much power for standby over the course of a whole year. So if your equipment is turning on and you are not playing for more than 24 hr / year, standby will save electricity. Even if you never forget to turn the equipment off, do you ever pause to go get a beer and then hit the potato chips and the next thing you know, it's a half hour or an hour later before you get back the keyboard? I think that for a lot of us, standby is a feature that will make a small and maybe more than trivial difference.


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