Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
81 registered members (ando, Animisha, Cheshire Chris, carlos88, apianostudent, 36251, BubbaMc, 21 invisible), 1,247 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading #2764664
09/11/18 05:48 AM
09/11/18 05:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 121
United States
R
RyanThePianist Offline OP
Full Member
RyanThePianist  Offline OP
Full Member
R

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 121
United States
Hi all,

I'm here with yet another question! I apologize for all the posts lately. I'm just a determined young adult teacher starting a teaching studio who wants second opinions from those more experienced! As a beginner, I constantly wonder if I'm doings things right (and I think I need to accept that this may be the case for a long time).

After studying several methods, I decided to choose Alfred's Premiere Course. I was slightly biased as this was my professor's preferred method as she said in our pedagogy class, and she's an amazing pianist with a doctorate.

I have a six year old student, and I had her mom purchase the Lesson, Theory, and Notespeller books. My lessons right now use Lesson and Theory, and I will assign Notespeller for HW when we get to the necessary pages. I question the importance of the performance book and how necessary it is to use. I feel as if the Lesson and Theory books offer a lot of material already, especially for a 6 year old. Right now, I plan to tell the parent to purchase it when I feel like I need to supplement it, such as when the student is learning too slow, bored of the lesson music, when I feel like the student should practice more music at home, or if I want to use some pieces for review purposes.

The reason I don't want to have the parent purchase the performance book from the get-go is because I'm hesitant to charge over $30 for one set of books, and I feel like lessons should progress with new concepts as soon as the student shows a level of understanding previous concepts so we can quickly get out of method books (within 3 years in my opinion). Again, this doesn't mean I never plan on supplementing it... I just feel like I should be teaching new concepts sooner.

Another question... I believe we can all agree sightreading is essential. Do any of you use the sightreading books? If not, what do you use, especially for young beginners? Again, I'm too hesitant to charge too much for books.

Feel free to criticize my thinking or offer your lesson approach.

Thank you.


Novice Private Piano Teacher

BA Music, Biology Minor

Yamaha G3, Yamaha P-515
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2764726
09/11/18 11:04 AM
09/11/18 11:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 126
Canada
pianist_lady Offline
Full Member
pianist_lady  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 126
Canada
Hi there,

You have the right idea-- the Lesson and Theory books are usually sufficient for most students. I have copies of the supplemental method books that I lend to my students if the need arises. If they need a special piece to play at a recital, then we select one from the Performance book and they borrow the book for that period of time. For my younger students, the sight-reading practice is done mainly in the lesson, so they don't need to take anything home. I put a sticky note in the book to mark our place and the student continues to the next exercise at the following lesson.
It's worthwhile to build a library of books that you can lend to students, so that they don't have to buy a book that they will only use for one piece.


Private piano teacher
B. Mus., M.Mus. (piano performance & pedagogy).
Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2764747
09/11/18 12:49 PM
09/11/18 12:49 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 346
Quebec city, QC
CadenzaVvi Offline
Full Member
CadenzaVvi  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 346
Quebec city, QC
Or, instead of lending - because you can fear of not getting the book back, in not in good shape -, copies of the required pages can do the trick. The teachers I had as a child / teenager did that all the time. I bought (well, my parents did) one method book, then the teacher was giving me a lot of loose sheets of music from many different sources.
Now, with IMSLP, it is easy to get a scan of a given score (maybe not for easy arrangements though). If you don't want to provide the sheet (because printing has a cost that can add up quickly if you have a lot a students), I'm sure parents will be - mostly - glad to print a copy sent by mail (instead of buying a whole book).

Good luck with your studio!


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Rameau, Les Sauvages
- Mozart, K545, 1st mov
- Chopin, nocturne op. posth. in C# minor
- Debussy, Golliwog's cakewalk
- Pozzoli, E.R. 427, etude no. 6
Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: CadenzaVvi] #2764760
09/11/18 01:49 PM
09/11/18 01:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 254
California, USA
M
MomOfBeginners Offline
Full Member
MomOfBeginners  Offline
Full Member
M

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 254
California, USA
I'm not a teacher and cannot comment on Alfred's Premiere Course.

I don't want to derail the topic, but I have to disagree with Jouishy's recommendation to photocopy pages from the book. I fully support the author and publisher's work and don't think it's right to copy a few pages from the Alfred book. To me, just because I want a book to preserve its good shape or just because I only want one or two pages out of an entire book doesn't justify the copying of a book.

Speaking as a parent, if I can see that my teacher put some thought into the deciding which books to purchase, then $30 every few months is not that much to spend on resources.

My children's teacher had a lending library for sight reading books which I was very grateful for. I'm sure out of her studio, books must've been lost or worn out by use. I'd expect the teacher to factor a general overhead cost of lost and worn out books into our tuition.


Mom of Two Girls Who Used to Be Beginners
Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2764766
09/11/18 03:02 PM
09/11/18 03:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,902
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,902
Canada
As I understand it, a teacher can actually get in trouble by photocopying because that is a breach of copyright, and it is not considered ethical.

When I was a public school teacher there were some workbooks which were specifically designed to be photocopied, and published for that purpose. Otherwise you did not make copies.

Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2764783
09/11/18 05:03 PM
09/11/18 05:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,101
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
8000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,101
Orange County, CA
Please don't make copies. Make the parents buy the books.

I use the Performance and Technique books for students who are truly slow and struggling. I once had a pair of siblings that took over a YEAR on the 2A level, and they were going nowhere. So I tacked on all the supplemental books at level 2A.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2764894
09/12/18 05:32 AM
09/12/18 05:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 121
United States
R
RyanThePianist Offline OP
Full Member
RyanThePianist  Offline OP
Full Member
R

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 121
United States
Thank you all. I will not make copies, and I will just have the parent buy the books when I feel the time is right. So they don't feel like they've wasted money, I will most likely use at least a handful of pieces in the book in my teaching.

As for sightreading, when the student is proficient in their notereading, I feel like I need to require daily sightreading assignments at home rather than just lesson based sightreading. Does anybody feel like this is a good idea? If so, what books do you recommend? Is Alfred's Sightreading enough?


Last edited by RyanThePianist; 09/12/18 05:33 AM.

Novice Private Piano Teacher

BA Music, Biology Minor

Yamaha G3, Yamaha P-515
Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2764932
09/12/18 10:01 AM
09/12/18 10:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 252
USA
missbelle Offline
Full Member
missbelle  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 252
USA
I use Piano Adventures (Faber and Faber) and they have a Sight Reading book series that goes directly with the Lesson Book. Kind of a Themes and Variations. Some students really need this regular reinforcement and encouragement.

I also have old (like, at least 40-50 years old) books that I have found at estate sales and church yard sales, that make excellent sight reading and warm-up practice materials. (And, dirt cheap) I loan these out as needed. I post a giant brightly colored Post-it note on the cover, "Borrowed THIS MONTH from MRS. BELLE." and I only give books to students that have proven trustworthy.

(Fun fact- so many kids today do not know familiar tunes- public domain hymns, patriotic tunes, nursery rhymes) but the PARENTS sometimes do. I will send an old book home and ask, "Who knows this tune on page 32?" (Sometimes the title is different) and, it works sometimes because the parent knows it, and will hum with the student, who gains pride and encouragement from a parent's hearing and listening to them!)(( Also, 'Happy B-Day' is listed as 'Good Morning' in older books. I use that to teach students to learn to listen to themselves. Name That Tune!))

As for the cost of books, $30 for purchase every few months is not a huge expense when they are paying $100/month for lessons.

And, the Performance Book is the "fun" book.

Lesson= main idea, concepts
Theory= application, written demonstration
Tech/Art= physical demonstration, skills
Sight Reading= reinforcement
Performance= Ok, let's put it together and play some fun music!


Learning as I teach.
Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2764945
09/12/18 11:16 AM
09/12/18 11:16 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 346
Quebec city, QC
CadenzaVvi Offline
Full Member
CadenzaVvi  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 346
Quebec city, QC
Sorry. I didn't think of this. Classical music being normally free of copyright, I guessed it should be a problem (I get all my scores from IMSLP), but maybe I'm wrong.

I wouldn't want to get that topic more off-topic, so sorry for that suggestion.

Please move on.


My piano journey from day 1
Started piano on February 2016.
Pieces I'm working on :
- Rameau, Les Sauvages
- Mozart, K545, 1st mov
- Chopin, nocturne op. posth. in C# minor
- Debussy, Golliwog's cakewalk
- Pozzoli, E.R. 427, etude no. 6
Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2764947
09/12/18 11:24 AM
09/12/18 11:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,902
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,902
Canada
It was probably a good thing to come up, since some teachers are still not aware of it, and the question of making copies still comes up once in a while in the teacher forum.

IMSLP is indeed a resource people will use. There are still some restrictions, since copyright applies to newer works.

Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2765010
09/12/18 03:45 PM
09/12/18 03:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,101
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
8000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,101
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by RyanThePianist
As for sightreading, when the student is proficient in their notereading, I feel like I need to require daily sightreading assignments at home rather than just lesson based sightreading. Does anybody feel like this is a good idea? If so, what books do you recommend? Is Alfred's Sightreading enough?

In my experience, all these sight reading books can work as long as YOU are doing the teaching correctly. I never use sight reading books with students that started lessons with me; however, I do use the sight reading books frequently with transfer wrecks. It's especially prevalent when the student's prior teacher uses ANY teaching by rote. It also happens when teachers assign students music that is obviously too difficult for them, and try to push them ahead too quickly.

Some things to keep in mind as you teach beginners:

1) Don't demonstrate the music until the student can read through it first, at least somewhat decently.

2) Don't let students fall back on their memory. Avoid starting from beginning all the time. Pick and choose random places to start the music.

3) If the student is struggling with reading, don't move them ahead. Drill, drill, and drill until they can read the notes at that given level.

4) The flash cards that come with Alfred Premier is very well done, and can be used to drill the slow/struggling students. These kids will put up a fight and cry and want to quit piano, but you hang in there and be more determined than they are.

5) Most importantly, make sure YOU understand what intervallic reading is all about. I do get transfer students who can read steps and skips, but anything like 4th, 5th, 6th and beyond never got covered. Also, make sure the student can read intervals vertically (harmonic) and horizontally (melodic) and have the correct fingerings to go with the interval.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2765608
09/15/18 04:46 AM
09/15/18 04:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 121
United States
R
RyanThePianist Offline OP
Full Member
RyanThePianist  Offline OP
Full Member
R

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 121
United States
AZNpiano, those are all great points that I've always been a supporter of! I have bought myself a set of flashcards for 1A and 1B for now as well. I've read many of your posts about "transfer wrecks" as I teach at a "music school" with problematic students, especially in terms of note reading and technique, and I'm determined to not let my students fall into this trap where they have holes in their musical education.

Another question: For students ages 9 or 10 and up, I was thinking about using Alfred Piano Course Express. This book basically takes the most important ideas from, say, 1A and 1B Lesson, Theory, Performance, and Technique and throws it into one "Book 1" book. Any thoughts on this? Should I recommend this book for adults as well? I know there's an Alfred Basic All-in-One adult book, but I feel as if the style / music is outdated.

Also, when should scales be introduced? I'm a supporter of teaching 5 note finger patterns and B major first, even I must through rote memory. Should I be supplementing this to all beginners, or only to older beginners (10 and up)? Should I just wait until the method books introduce them?

Last edited by RyanThePianist; 09/15/18 04:49 AM.

Novice Private Piano Teacher

BA Music, Biology Minor

Yamaha G3, Yamaha P-515
Re: How to Teach Alfred Premiere - Performance and Sightreading [Re: RyanThePianist] #2765647
09/15/18 11:05 AM
09/15/18 11:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,101
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
8000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,101
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by RyanThePianist
Another question: For students ages 9 or 10 and up, I was thinking about using Alfred Piano Course Express. This book basically takes the most important ideas from, say, 1A and 1B Lesson, Theory, Performance, and Technique and throws it into one "Book 1" book. Any thoughts on this? Should I recommend this book for adults as well? I know there's an Alfred Basic All-in-One adult book, but I feel as if the style / music is outdated.

I've used the Express books before. They work fine. I don't use age as an indicator of ability. If the student is moving quickly through the normal Alfred Premier books, then switch him/her to the Express book. No big deal. Adult students should be treated like any other student. Age is no indication of ability. Some of my adult students move even slower than the 4-year-old transfer wreck who's on the 2-year plan to finish the 1A book.

Originally Posted by RyanThePianist
Also, when should scales be introduced? I'm a supporter of teaching 5 note finger patterns and B major first, even I must through rote memory. Should I be supplementing this to all beginners, or only to older beginners (10 and up)? Should I just wait until the method books introduce them?

That's up to you. I don't do scales until the method books get to them, and even after that I don't push for mastery until the students start testing. Almost every single student HATES scales and won't do them unless they are forced to do scales.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How to find a good teacer?
by Wehhua. 06/19/19 11:21 PM
Name of fingering technique
by spartan928. 06/19/19 10:23 PM
any digital pianos with real piano mechanism
by Mike Mey. 06/19/19 06:32 PM
Edition for Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 by Liszt
by Candywoman. 06/19/19 03:50 PM
Layering sampled and modeled piano sounds
by Robhatherton. 06/19/19 12:54 PM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics192,610
Posts2,839,875
Members93,657
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1