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Re: Hello! New member, new Grotrian, need advice. [Re: Fareham] #2762930
09/02/18 10:27 PM
09/02/18 10:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 963
Miguel Rey Offline
500 Post Club Member
Miguel Rey  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 963
Originally Posted by Fareham
Originally Posted by Miguel Rey
Not sure what you mean but if the suns shines directly on the glass and you turn on the AC and the window tint is applied against the most manufacture warning your glass could fail, the larger the window the greater the chance. I don't care what part of the country anyone is from, this is a general guideline for anyone stumbling on this thread!


Because of the very low swing in temperatures, no-one has air conditioning in the UK ! (The OP lives in Kent - UK as he says - and the glass is North facing and gets no direct sunlight, if you read the thread's contents)


I've read through many threads to learn valuable information about my particular situation and thought this would help anyone else stumbling on this thread. I'm sure many people in other parts of the world will appreciate the advice since you apparently left that important bit of information out--even though it's pretty obvious.




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Re: Hello! New member, new Grotrian, need advice. [Re: Dathka] #2763202
09/03/18 06:50 PM
09/03/18 06:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,110
H
huaidongxi Offline
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huaidongxi  Offline
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H

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,110
recently spent time with a steinway model O in a room with an open floor plan, the piano within 25 feet of the cooking area (for a weekend rental we had use of a section of a house including the piano). it belongs to a piano teacher with a number of students and quite a bit of training in her resume, including lessons with Karl Ulrich Schnabel. the piano's exterior was well maintained and polished, glossy walnut. from looking at the patina on the harp, my guess was post w.w.2, pre-cbs, when ivory keytops were still being used. as it turned out, it was a very nice 1920's instrument fully restored 10-15 years ago, and the patina (something in the color range of tobacco staining) was grease, dust, and dog hair, because the front section of the lid is always left open. as many grand piano owners do, the woman put photos and tchotckes and what not on the piano lid, so safe to guess she didn't use the partial protection of a string cover to help keep krapp from the strings and harp, though regular tunings probably kept her strings from getting encrusted like her harp.

Re: Hello! New member, new Grotrian, need advice. [Re: huaidongxi] #2763435
09/04/18 05:21 PM
09/04/18 05:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 623
Portland, OR
T
twocats Offline
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twocats  Offline
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T

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 623
Portland, OR
Is it possible to partition the room with a curtain/screen, so that you can draw the curtain when you're cooking but have it open at other times and not lose too much of the character of the open space?


2001 Petrof 125 -> 2002 Petrof IV -> 1999 Bosendorfer 225 (meow!) 🐱
Re: Hello! New member, new Grotrian, need advice. [Re: Miguel Rey] #2763446
09/04/18 05:48 PM
09/04/18 05:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,046
London
D
David-G Offline
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David-G  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,046
London
Originally Posted by Miguel Rey
Just make sure that if you have double glazed glass you get a film that goes on the outside otherwise you could crack the glass with interior/exterior temperature changes.

Maybe I am being thick here, but why should the film make it more likely that the glass would crack?

Re: Hello! New member, new Grotrian, need advice. [Re: David-G] #2763494
09/04/18 11:43 PM
09/04/18 11:43 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 463
Rural UK
F
Fareham Offline
Full Member
Fareham  Offline
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F

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 463
Rural UK
Originally Posted by David-G
Maybe I am being thick here, but why should the film make it more likely that the glass would crack?


I don't really get it either.

I suppose that in very hot climates, using air conditioning at 18C while it's 40C outside, the thermal gradient through the glass can cause stress build up in the glass eventually leading to cracking to relieve it. Putting a film on the outside will change the gradients markedly as glass conducts heat quite readily, while film probably doesn't so much. Also if much IR and UV is reflected less energy will be passing through the glass. I guess that having it on the inside means that the glass will be hotter overall as the film effectively 'traps' heat through reflection on the inside surface. The glass would also have a tendency to act as a radiator at low frequency IR, and be less effective - hence the outside application.


The English may not like music much, but they love the sound it makes ... Beecham
Re: Hello! New member, new Grotrian, need advice. [Re: Dathka] #2763498
09/05/18 01:04 AM
09/05/18 01:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 963
Miguel Rey Offline
500 Post Club Member
Miguel Rey  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 963
Not necessarily ambient heat it's the solar heat that is the issue. The film absorbs heat that gets trapped between the panes of glass that could cause it to crack or break the seal. You either use a very light tint or low absorption film or install it on the outside of the glass to avoid this.




Re: Hello! New member, new Grotrian, need advice. [Re: Fareham] #2766378
09/19/18 03:13 AM
09/19/18 03:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,328
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
1000 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,328
Queensland, Australia
We had the windows crack in an office - the single glazed fixed windows were very large - about 10'x5', in a steel framework, let in lots of summer sun, so, when they were 10yrs old, they tinted them with reflective film. This improved the heat considerably, but we noticed they got considerably hotter - we were told because the radiation went through the glass a second time as it was being reflected.

After a few months, a couple of cracks appeared across one pane, still held together by the film. We assumed maybe a lawnmower, until the next pane cracked while someone was nearby and there was no mowing happening, it just went bang, but the film held it together. It was eventually tracked down to the hard putty, the rigid steel framework, and that the glass got hotter with the film applied - expanding and couldn't go anywhere. They re-glazed them with a flexible putty.

BUT - this was in the tropics. Possibly different from Kent.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Hello! New member, new Grotrian, need advice. [Re: Dathka] #2766381
09/19/18 03:27 AM
09/19/18 03:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,328
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
1000 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,328
Queensland, Australia
Wonderful piano!!!!!!! Congratulations. I've got a 6 yr old Grotrian Concert (7'4").

I find that the humidity varies much more with the weather than with cooking, bathing etc, which varies the reading very little. But when the RH goes from 50-60 (sort-of normal here) to 85 or 25, I notice the piano will sound a little off if it's been a few days. But, when it goes back to normal, the piano improves.

I rarely open my piano lid - it's quite loud enough - except for my dog who elects to drag his bed under the piano when I'm playing. I've also got a string cover which is made out of track-suit material which will protect the strings from any cooking fumes. But when the climate isn't mild, I keep it closed unless I'm playing it, that's got to help.

It did come with a DamppChaser - not sure how much it helps, but I keep it going. It has both a humidifier tank and 2 de-humidifying bars.

I'm in the process of sourcing a de-humidifier before the summer dry winds arrive (I'm in Australia), I think it will help.

Find a good technician who will keep it regulated and voice it for your environment. Mine comes 3 times a year. Do you find it quite "bright" with all the glass and hard flooring - mine is still quite bright on carpet and heavy drapes which are closed most of the time, but it's been voiced a bit more mellow than it started off.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Hello! New member, new Grotrian, need advice. [Re: backto_study_piano] #2766421
09/19/18 09:42 AM
09/19/18 09:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
D
Dathka Offline OP
Junior Member
Dathka  Offline OP
Junior Member
D

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
Wonderful piano!!!!!!! Congratulations. I've got a 6 yr old Grotrian Concert (7'4").


These are quite extraordinary pianos, aren't they? I'm absolutely in love with mine! I had been absolutely sure for 20 years or so that my goal was to acquire a Steinway B, but then I played this Grotrian and it changed my mind instantly - I'm very, very happy.

Quote
Find a good technician who will keep it regulated and voice it for your environment. Mine comes 3 times a year. Do you find it quite "bright" with all the glass and hard flooring - mine is still quite bright on carpet and heavy drapes which are closed most of the time, but it's been voiced a bit more mellow than it started off.


I've found a good tech, and he's coming to give it its first tuning (which it badly needs!) and fit the Dampp-Chaser on Monday. I'm also having an under cover fitted which should help with keeping the environment around the soundboard controlled, and I am going to get a string cover too. Right by the kitchen was never going to be ideal, but there's nowhere else I could fit a grand piano in the house, and even an upright would need to go in that room or another that's adjacent to the space.

Interestingly, the piano is really not too bright in the room - I did have it voiced appropriately before I bought it, and the room is actually a lot larger and less constricted than it looks in those photos - to the right of the kitchen space shown is another open dining space about twice the size of the space the piano is in, so the room is an L shape about 9 metres on a side. I'd say the tonality is pretty much perfect, but the room is a little 'live' (quite strong short echo) with the lid up so I will probably introduce something absorbent to tame it a bit. With the lid down, it works really well.

Cheers,
David

Re: Hello! New member, new Grotrian, need advice. [Re: Dathka] #2766596
09/20/18 06:09 AM
09/20/18 06:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,328
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
1000 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,328
Queensland, Australia
... With the lid down, it works really well.

Cheers,
David
[/quote]
I play with the lid down all the time - except for the afternoon after the technician has serviced the piano - then I let rip!! It's just a little loud with just me and 2 small dogs in the home with the lid open.

You said "... first tuning (which it badly needs!) ..." - probably expect that you might need another or several in short time to bring it into good tune. You might be lucky, but that's what it will often need. But worth it.

cheers, Alan

Last edited by backto_study_piano; 09/20/18 06:10 AM.

Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
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