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Steinway Hamburg vs New York #2762940
09/02/18 11:29 PM
09/02/18 11:29 PM
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James Guo Offline OP
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So, I know there are a lot of comparisions between the two. I just want to know if the action in Hamburg are still made by Renner because I heard that Steinway is starting to sync their product as they put more and more New York parts in Hamburg Steinway.
Just want to know that what kind of difference still remains?


Thanks,

James

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Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2762946
09/03/18 12:15 AM
09/03/18 12:15 AM
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Posts: 291
Paris, France
trandinhnamanh Offline
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No, Hamburg Steinway still have Renner action, because it’s just simply better. They have some new case parts (design, not fabrication) from NY like legs, music stand, and lid prop. It breaks the classic elegance of Hamburg Steinway’s design that never changes since decades, to my eyes. New Hamburg Ds also have hard satin finish option on lid’s upper surface, like Yamaha CFX.

Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 09/03/18 12:19 AM.

Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763006
09/03/18 07:08 AM
09/03/18 07:08 AM
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joe80 Offline
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One difference that doesn't seem to be noted on here is the hinge on the fly lid is in a different place on the NY pianos from where it is on the Hamburg pianos. The fly lid hinge is closer to the keyboard on the NY pianos.

The reason that's important information is because I've seen a few New York pianos which have been rebuilt to look like Hamburg pianos, with the lyre and desk replaced, the inside veneered in mahogany, the fall replaced and the cheeks rounded (seems like a bit of an effort to go to in my opinion....), but the fly lid hinge is one thing they always miss.

Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763042
09/03/18 09:16 AM
09/03/18 09:16 AM
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Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
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They also have traditionally had different suppliers for many small parts like hinges, screws, wire, and raw materials like wood and felt.

I am not sure how much of that has been unified over the past decade, but I suspect not much of it.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
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Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763087
09/03/18 11:19 AM
09/03/18 11:19 AM
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New York, NY
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steinwayman18 Offline
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I had heard the same thing about the action parts becoming synced, but I think that applies more to a change to the NY pianos.


Ronen

Park Avenue Pianos | Steinway Piano Reseller

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Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763112
09/03/18 12:29 PM
09/03/18 12:29 PM
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Seattle, WA USA
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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I know some here recoil in horror when I point it out but, Renner action parts have a problem with the center pins working out of the flanges after just a few years of use. They also get "mystery sluggushness" where the action center seizes after playing for an hour or two, then let it rest and it will work again. Much less of an issue with NY parts.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763121
09/03/18 01:05 PM
09/03/18 01:05 PM
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joe80 Offline
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For what it's worth, I'm one of the few European pianists who prefers the sound of a good NYC Steinway. And Ed, I know what you mean about that mysterious sluggishness. It's not just on Steinways, I've experienced it on a few makes.

Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2763167
09/03/18 04:35 PM
09/03/18 04:35 PM
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Paris, France
trandinhnamanh Offline
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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
I know some here recoil in horror when I point it out but, Renner action parts have a problem with the center pins working out of the flanges after just a few years of use. They also get "mystery sluggushness" where the action center seizes after playing for an hour or two, then let it rest and it will work again. Much less of an issue with NY parts.

Well, you know, there are many lines of product at Renner. It depends on which one the piano brand choses for their pianos. Hamburg Steinways have Renner parts since quite long time, without any problem, not like such things as teflon action of NY Steinways. And not only Hamburg Steinways, but Faziolis, Bösendorfers, C. Bechsteins... have Renner parts too. It must have a good reason for that!

Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 09/03/18 04:38 PM.

Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763174
09/03/18 04:51 PM
09/03/18 04:51 PM
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Reseda, California
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JohnSprung Offline
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Does anybody know whether Hamburg Steinway has always used Renner, or did they start after WWII with the Marshall Plan reconstruction? Renner was founded in 1882 in Stuttgart, and Hamburg Steinway opened in 1885, so it's theoretically possible they've always been Renner.


It looks like NY has always had their own action tooling, so it would take quite a substantial business reason to get them to switch.


-- J.S.

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Kawai FS690
Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763197
09/03/18 06:11 PM
09/03/18 06:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,489
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote
I know some here recoil in horror when I point it out but, Renner action parts have a problem with the center pins working out of the flanges after just a few years of use. They also get "mystery sluggushness" where the action center seizes after playing for an hour or two, then let it rest and it will work again. Much less of an issue with NY parts.


Perhaps time to adjust your work shop humidifier?

Norbert whome


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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
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Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: JohnSprung] #2763209
09/03/18 07:15 PM
09/03/18 07:15 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,482
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
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Originally Posted by JohnSprung

It looks like NY has always had their own action tooling, so it would take quite a substantial business reason to get them to switch.


Actually during the 1980's and early 1990's, NY Steinway was using Renner action parts in NY Bs and Ds because the NY parts were having issues.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
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Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: Norbert] #2763225
09/03/18 08:30 PM
09/03/18 08:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 291
Paris, France
trandinhnamanh Offline
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trandinhnamanh  Offline
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Paris, France
Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
I know some here recoil in horror when I point it out but, Renner action parts have a problem with the center pins working out of the flanges after just a few years of use. They also get "mystery sluggushness" where the action center seizes after playing for an hour or two, then let it rest and it will work again. Much less of an issue with NY parts.


Perhaps time to adjust your work shop humidifier?

Norbert whome


Or just move to Hamburg city
confused


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763246
09/03/18 10:29 PM
09/03/18 10:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,237
Seattle, WA USA
E
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Seattle, WA USA
Norbert,
The Renner parts with the problems are in customers homes.

Trandinhnamanh, Do you service pianos?


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2763250
09/03/18 10:49 PM
09/03/18 10:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 291
Paris, France
trandinhnamanh Offline
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trandinhnamanh  Offline
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Paris, France
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT

Trandinhnamanh, Do you service pianos?


Yes


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: trandinhnamanh] #2763361
09/04/18 01:21 PM
09/04/18 01:21 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,902
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by trandinhnamanh

Well, you know, there are many lines of product at Renner. It depends on which one the piano brand choses for their pianos. Hamburg Steinways have Renner parts since quite long time, without any problem, not like such things as teflon action of NY Steinways. And not only Hamburg Steinways, but Faziolis, Bösendorfers, C. Bechsteins... have Renner parts too. It must have a good reason for that!


Although I absolutely love the feel of Renner actions, regulated to the nines, in top-tier pianos, I've been told by chief technicians and execs at the manufacturer level at more than one "tier 1" company (and this has been corroborated by high-level rebuilders and independent techs) that part of the reason these pianos play so beautifully is the highest-cost manufacturers will take extra time to repin parts when necessary, verify everything's within acceptable tolerances, or even reject batches of parts (whatever the supplier) when specifications are suboptimal. Since you work on pianos, you know it's not as easy as just screwing on new parts and everything works well, out of the box. I just want to be sure our non-tech readers here understand that too...


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: joe80] #2763366
09/04/18 01:31 PM
09/04/18 01:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 316
Maryland, USA
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Davdoc Offline
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Originally Posted by joe80
One difference that doesn't seem to be noted on here is the hinge on the fly lid is in a different place on the NY pianos from where it is on the Hamburg pianos. The fly lid hinge is closer to the keyboard on the NY pianos.

The reason that's important information is because I've seen a few New York pianos which have been rebuilt to look like Hamburg pianos, with the lyre and desk replaced, the inside veneered in mahogany, the fall replaced and the cheeks rounded (seems like a bit of an effort to go to in my opinion....), but the fly lid hinge is one thing they always miss.


Hi Joe,

Do you mean that the depth of the fly lids are less on NY pianos than Hamburg pianos?


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: Davdoc] #2763368
09/04/18 01:37 PM
09/04/18 01:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,130
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joe80 Offline
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Originally Posted by Davdoc
Originally Posted by joe80
One difference that doesn't seem to be noted on here is the hinge on the fly lid is in a different place on the NY pianos from where it is on the Hamburg pianos. The fly lid hinge is closer to the keyboard on the NY pianos.

The reason that's important information is because I've seen a few New York pianos which have been rebuilt to look like Hamburg pianos, with the lyre and desk replaced, the inside veneered in mahogany, the fall replaced and the cheeks rounded (seems like a bit of an effort to go to in my opinion....), but the fly lid hinge is one thing they always miss.


Hi Joe,

Do you mean that the depth of the fly lids are less on NY pianos than Hamburg pianos?

Originally Posted by Davdoc
Originally Posted by joe80
One difference that doesn't seem to be noted on here is the hinge on the fly lid is in a different place on the NY pianos from where it is on the Hamburg pianos. The fly lid hinge is closer to the keyboard on the NY pianos.

The reason that's important information is because I've seen a few New York pianos which have been rebuilt to look like Hamburg pianos, with the lyre and desk replaced, the inside veneered in mahogany, the fall replaced and the cheeks rounded (seems like a bit of an effort to go to in my opinion....), but the fly lid hinge is one thing they always miss.


Hi Joe,

Do you mean that the depth of the fly lids are less on NY pianos than Hamburg pianos?


Yes.... that is a more succinct way of putting it!

Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763374
09/04/18 01:56 PM
09/04/18 01:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,587
New York
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LJC Offline
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New York
Heres what I think I know. The cases on the Ds are slightly different and not just the detail at the keyboard end. Compare the two its easy to see. The Hamburg D has a fall board lock and a knob to lock the lid down presumably for moving the piano. The pedal box is different. The newer Hamburg D's now use the same plate as the NY D's. It is my understanding that the soundboard crown is formed on the NY D with compression and the Hamburgs are crowned by rib forming. The NY lid is much lighter than the Hamburg lid so it has more ribs. The NY model uses action parts with computerized machining. I presume Hamburg still uses Renner parts but I was told they will use NY parts now that they can make them perfectly. The hammers are soft and need to be hardened on the NY model. The Renner hammers need softening. I have read that older Hamburg D's (like mine) used Abel hammers which I have and sound incredible. The music desks are different. I have heard said that the Hamburg rims are thicker and use some different woods than NY in their "book". I don't know I never measured them and I can't tell if it is different wood. The wood in the yard before the build begins is dried to a different moisture content allowing for their respective climates. Most important of all the sound is a little different generally speaking my guess is that its mostly due to the different hammers. I think they both use Mapes strings now. Now there is polyester on the NY pianos where older ones are lacquer. This is about al I can think of right now. To sum it up they are the same design but built somewhat differently.

Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763427
09/04/18 04:50 PM
09/04/18 04:50 PM
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Oakland
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The music desks on newer New York Steinways have changed to be like those on Hamburg, although some details may be different.


Semipro Tech
Re: Steinway Hamburg vs New York [Re: James Guo] #2763482
09/04/18 09:01 PM
09/04/18 09:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
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New York
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LJC Offline
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Bdb - NYdid change their music desk but it is not the same as the Hamburg.

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