2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
39 members (David B, Bett, Carey, Calavera, Abdol, CraiginNZ, Anevsky, 10 invisible), 4,509 guests, and 472 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 107
J
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 107
So, I know there are a lot of comparisions between the two. I just want to know if the action in Hamburg are still made by Renner because I heard that Steinway is starting to sync their product as they put more and more New York parts in Hamburg Steinway.
Just want to know that what kind of difference still remains?


Thanks,

James

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 573
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 573
No, Hamburg Steinway still have Renner action, because it’s just simply better. They have some new case parts (design, not fabrication) from NY like legs, music stand, and lid prop. It breaks the classic elegance of Hamburg Steinway’s design that never changes since decades, to my eyes. New Hamburg Ds also have hard satin finish option on lid’s upper surface, like Yamaha CFX.

Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 09/03/18 12:19 AM.

Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,358
J
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,358
One difference that doesn't seem to be noted on here is the hinge on the fly lid is in a different place on the NY pianos from where it is on the Hamburg pianos. The fly lid hinge is closer to the keyboard on the NY pianos.

The reason that's important information is because I've seen a few New York pianos which have been rebuilt to look like Hamburg pianos, with the lyre and desk replaced, the inside veneered in mahogany, the fall replaced and the cheeks rounded (seems like a bit of an effort to go to in my opinion....), but the fly lid hinge is one thing they always miss.


YAMAHA Artist
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,839
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,839
They also have traditionally had different suppliers for many small parts like hinges, screws, wire, and raw materials like wood and felt.

I am not sure how much of that has been unified over the past decade, but I suspect not much of it.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Company
Visit one of our four locations
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Learn more about the Matchless Cunningham
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 76
S
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 76
I had heard the same thing about the action parts becoming synced, but I think that applies more to a change to the NY pianos.


Ronen

Park Avenue Pianos | Steinway Piano Reseller

https://www.steinwaygrand.com
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,222
E
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,222
I know some here recoil in horror when I point it out but, Renner action parts have a problem with the center pins working out of the flanges after just a few years of use. They also get "mystery sluggushness" where the action center seizes after playing for an hour or two, then let it rest and it will work again. Much less of an issue with NY parts.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,358
J
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,358
For what it's worth, I'm one of the few European pianists who prefers the sound of a good NYC Steinway. And Ed, I know what you mean about that mysterious sluggishness. It's not just on Steinways, I've experienced it on a few makes.


YAMAHA Artist
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 573
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 573
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
I know some here recoil in horror when I point it out but, Renner action parts have a problem with the center pins working out of the flanges after just a few years of use. They also get "mystery sluggushness" where the action center seizes after playing for an hour or two, then let it rest and it will work again. Much less of an issue with NY parts.

Well, you know, there are many lines of product at Renner. It depends on which one the piano brand choses for their pianos. Hamburg Steinways have Renner parts since quite long time, without any problem, not like such things as teflon action of NY Steinways. And not only Hamburg Steinways, but Faziolis, Bösendorfers, C. Bechsteins... have Renner parts too. It must have a good reason for that!

Last edited by trandinhnamanh; 09/03/18 04:38 PM.

Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,272
J
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
6000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,272

Does anybody know whether Hamburg Steinway has always used Renner, or did they start after WWII with the Marshall Plan reconstruction? Renner was founded in 1882 in Stuttgart, and Hamburg Steinway opened in 1885, so it's theoretically possible they've always been Renner.


It looks like NY has always had their own action tooling, so it would take quite a substantial business reason to get them to switch.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,619
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,619
Quote
I know some here recoil in horror when I point it out but, Renner action parts have a problem with the center pins working out of the flanges after just a few years of use. They also get "mystery sluggushness" where the action center seizes after playing for an hour or two, then let it rest and it will work again. Much less of an issue with NY parts.


Perhaps time to adjust your work shop humidifier?

Norbert whome


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,839
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 12,839
Originally Posted by JohnSprung

It looks like NY has always had their own action tooling, so it would take quite a substantial business reason to get them to switch.


Actually during the 1980's and early 1990's, NY Steinway was using Renner action parts in NY Bs and Ds because the NY parts were having issues.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Company
Visit one of our four locations
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Learn more about the Matchless Cunningham
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 573
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 573
Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
I know some here recoil in horror when I point it out but, Renner action parts have a problem with the center pins working out of the flanges after just a few years of use. They also get "mystery sluggushness" where the action center seizes after playing for an hour or two, then let it rest and it will work again. Much less of an issue with NY parts.


Perhaps time to adjust your work shop humidifier?

Norbert whome


Or just move to Hamburg city
confused


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,222
E
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,222
Norbert,
The Renner parts with the problems are in customers homes.

Trandinhnamanh, Do you service pianos?


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 573
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 573
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT

Trandinhnamanh, Do you service pianos?


Yes


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02X
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,400
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,400
Originally Posted by trandinhnamanh

Well, you know, there are many lines of product at Renner. It depends on which one the piano brand choses for their pianos. Hamburg Steinways have Renner parts since quite long time, without any problem, not like such things as teflon action of NY Steinways. And not only Hamburg Steinways, but Faziolis, Bösendorfers, C. Bechsteins... have Renner parts too. It must have a good reason for that!


Although I absolutely love the feel of Renner actions, regulated to the nines, in top-tier pianos, I've been told by chief technicians and execs at the manufacturer level at more than one "tier 1" company (and this has been corroborated by high-level rebuilders and independent techs) that part of the reason these pianos play so beautifully is the highest-cost manufacturers will take extra time to repin parts when necessary, verify everything's within acceptable tolerances, or even reject batches of parts (whatever the supplier) when specifications are suboptimal. Since you work on pianos, you know it's not as easy as just screwing on new parts and everything works well, out of the box. I just want to be sure our non-tech readers here understand that too...


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 454
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 454
Originally Posted by joe80
One difference that doesn't seem to be noted on here is the hinge on the fly lid is in a different place on the NY pianos from where it is on the Hamburg pianos. The fly lid hinge is closer to the keyboard on the NY pianos.

The reason that's important information is because I've seen a few New York pianos which have been rebuilt to look like Hamburg pianos, with the lyre and desk replaced, the inside veneered in mahogany, the fall replaced and the cheeks rounded (seems like a bit of an effort to go to in my opinion....), but the fly lid hinge is one thing they always miss.


Hi Joe,

Do you mean that the depth of the fly lids are less on NY pianos than Hamburg pianos?


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,358
J
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,358
Originally Posted by Davdoc
Originally Posted by joe80
One difference that doesn't seem to be noted on here is the hinge on the fly lid is in a different place on the NY pianos from where it is on the Hamburg pianos. The fly lid hinge is closer to the keyboard on the NY pianos.

The reason that's important information is because I've seen a few New York pianos which have been rebuilt to look like Hamburg pianos, with the lyre and desk replaced, the inside veneered in mahogany, the fall replaced and the cheeks rounded (seems like a bit of an effort to go to in my opinion....), but the fly lid hinge is one thing they always miss.


Hi Joe,

Do you mean that the depth of the fly lids are less on NY pianos than Hamburg pianos?

Originally Posted by Davdoc
Originally Posted by joe80
One difference that doesn't seem to be noted on here is the hinge on the fly lid is in a different place on the NY pianos from where it is on the Hamburg pianos. The fly lid hinge is closer to the keyboard on the NY pianos.

The reason that's important information is because I've seen a few New York pianos which have been rebuilt to look like Hamburg pianos, with the lyre and desk replaced, the inside veneered in mahogany, the fall replaced and the cheeks rounded (seems like a bit of an effort to go to in my opinion....), but the fly lid hinge is one thing they always miss.


Hi Joe,

Do you mean that the depth of the fly lids are less on NY pianos than Hamburg pianos?


Yes.... that is a more succinct way of putting it!


YAMAHA Artist
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,600
L
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,600
Heres what I think I know. The cases on the Ds are slightly different and not just the detail at the keyboard end. Compare the two its easy to see. The Hamburg D has a fall board lock and a knob to lock the lid down presumably for moving the piano. The pedal box is different. The newer Hamburg D's now use the same plate as the NY D's. It is my understanding that the soundboard crown is formed on the NY D with compression and the Hamburgs are crowned by rib forming. The NY lid is much lighter than the Hamburg lid so it has more ribs. The NY model uses action parts with computerized machining. I presume Hamburg still uses Renner parts but I was told they will use NY parts now that they can make them perfectly. The hammers are soft and need to be hardened on the NY model. The Renner hammers need softening. I have read that older Hamburg D's (like mine) used Abel hammers which I have and sound incredible. The music desks are different. I have heard said that the Hamburg rims are thicker and use some different woods than NY in their "book". I don't know I never measured them and I can't tell if it is different wood. The wood in the yard before the build begins is dried to a different moisture content allowing for their respective climates. Most important of all the sound is a little different generally speaking my guess is that its mostly due to the different hammers. I think they both use Mapes strings now. Now there is polyester on the NY pianos where older ones are lacquer. This is about al I can think of right now. To sum it up they are the same design but built somewhat differently.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 30,651
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 30,651
The music desks on newer New York Steinways have changed to be like those on Hamburg, although some details may be different.


Semipro Tech
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,600
L
LJC Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,600
Bdb - NYdid change their music desk but it is not the same as the Hamburg.

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Happy 4th!
Happy 4th of July
Happy 4th!
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
Piano Buyer - Read the Articles, Explore the website
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Chord help
by Moo :) - 07/05/22 02:18 AM
Yamaha U3 or equivalent upright
by Tom Ryshka - 07/05/22 01:35 AM
A comparison of two very different pianos!
by Joseph Fleetwood - 07/04/22 02:17 PM
Home Studio Recordings on Bosendorfer 225
by James Gordon - 07/04/22 01:39 PM
Looking for good online piano course for beginner
by mwsheeler - 07/04/22 12:12 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
What's Hot!!
FREE June Newsletter is Here!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
-------------------
Music Store Going Out of Business Sale!
---------------------
Mr. PianoWorld's Original Composition
---------------------
Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics213,804
Posts3,205,429
Members105,714
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers

Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | MapleStreetMusicShop.com - Our store in Cornish Maine


© copyright 1997 - 2022 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5