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Why remove wippen springs? #2762100
08/31/18 02:43 AM
08/31/18 02:43 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 153
Germany
U
Upright Offline OP
Full Member
Upright  Offline OP
Full Member
U

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 153
Germany
I have got a small Zimmerman baby grand into my workshop. It is just 136 cm long but has a remarkably good sound. The key downweight is beyond average though. It goes up to over 70 g in the base. Upweight ist 40 g and higher. The whole keyboard feels much too heavy.

Examining the cause, I realized, that someone cut the wippen springs of the wippen flanges. Why would soneone do that? Do you know a reasonable explantion?


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Re: Why remove wippen springs? [Re: Upright] #2762144
08/31/18 08:23 AM
08/31/18 08:23 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,892
Tennessee
E
Ed Foote Offline
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Ed Foote  Offline
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E

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,892
Tennessee
Originally Posted by Upright
I The whole keyboard feels much too heavy.

Examining the cause, I realized, that someone cut the wippen springs of the wippen flanges. Why would soneone do that? Do you know a reasonable explantion?



Greetings,
Simple ignorance. Some actions are designed with them, others not. There are some techs that don't understand the design and cut them off of all actions, so there will be some results that are rather poor. You will need to either re-install them or reduce your hammer weight. (or, add lead to the keys, which is usually another step downward in action response.)
regards

Re: Why remove wippen springs? [Re: Upright] #2762162
08/31/18 09:49 AM
08/31/18 09:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 622
E
Ed A. Hall Offline
500 Post Club Member
Ed A. Hall  Offline
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E

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 622
Someone probably didn't like the feel from these whippen assist springs. The best course of action at this point is to lower hammer weight. Either taper these hammers or if you don't like them, hang lighter weight hammers. You'll have a far nicer feeling action than when this piano was new

Re: Why remove wippen springs? [Re: Upright] #2762182
08/31/18 11:13 AM
08/31/18 11:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,200
Seattle, WA USA
E
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,200
Seattle, WA USA
I am gonna combine the two above Eds's advice.

Make the hammers lighter and add a lead to the key fronts where needed to even out the touch. If the hammers are light enough, 70G downweight in the bass will not be perceived as excessively heavy by pianists. The problem you can get into is if the hammers are too dense felt, the tone will be too bright when the hammers are light.


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Re: Why remove wippen springs? [Re: Upright] #2762183
08/31/18 11:14 AM
08/31/18 11:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,496
Oakland
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BDB Offline
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Posts: 27,496
Oakland
Maybe they broke.


Semipro Tech
Re: Why remove wippen springs? [Re: Upright] #2762245
08/31/18 03:09 PM
08/31/18 03:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Saskatchewan, Canada
F
Floyd G Offline
Full Member
Floyd G  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Saskatchewan, Canada
On May 13th of this year, David Stanwood articulated an approach to key/action balancing on the Pianotech forum at myptg.org. If you go to the main page and enter the first words of his post in the search box, the thread will come up. "You can measure the precise effect of the key leads" is your search string. Include the quotation marks.

The thread (Key Leads) was started in 2012, but resurrected by another tech this spring, for whom David jumped in with a reply.

I have been using the Stanwood Touch Weight kit from Pianotek Supply for several years, and have found the instructions that come with it very helpful. They included recommendations for working with wippen assist springs. These latest posts by David made the whole process a little less fussy for me. David has no problem with wippen springs, though I don't remember them being discussed in this latest series of posts.

The key is to take the factors that influence the touch, i.e. key front weight, wippen weight, spring influence, action ratio, friction, and optimal weight of hammers for the particular instrument, and manage them for the desired result.

I just rebuilt the action on a 1965 Yamaha G2. The original hammers were very light compared to those in the Yamaha -supplied G2 replacement set that has been sitting on my shelf for years. Using Stanwood's protocols, I ended up refining the individual hammer weights, adding quite a bit of weight to the fronts of the keys (though ending up 3 grams below Stanwood's recommended front weight ceiling, so not an excessive amount), and normalizing the friction. In this case no wippen springs were involved. I have had a very positive response to the result from users.

I would encourage you to work through David's approach. With it, you can determine if the springs are, in fact, desirable, or if the results you are after are better achieved by adjusting other factors.

Last edited by Floyd G; 08/31/18 03:10 PM.

Floyd G RPT
www.floydgadd.com
Re: Why remove wippen springs? [Re: Upright] #2762369
09/01/18 03:53 AM
09/01/18 03:53 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 153
Germany
U
Upright Offline OP
Full Member
Upright  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 153
Germany
Thank you for that many responses, advise and hints to articles. A lot of info to work with. What a great forum.


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