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I'm considering buying a 1908 Bluthner grand (approx. 6'4''). The seller is asking $8000, although is open to negotiation. I played the piano. The tone is excellent. Tuning pins are tight. I liked the action. It's been well regulated. It's the patent action, so it's a bit light. I played a well regulated Steinway D the day after I played the Bluthner, and I could barely notice any difference in the action (other than the fact that Bluthner is maybe about 15% lighter). I spoke with the Bluthner's piano technician, who seems to have cared well for the piano over the past decade. We both agree the piano has been rebuilt at some point (not by him), although there are no records about this.

My only hesitation is that there have been 3 bass strings replaced in the past decade. I'm thinking it could probably use a new set of bass strings. Obviously, this opens up the question: maybe I should replace all the strings. And, while I'm doing that, should I also replace the pin-block? If so, this brings up the price to a point where I'd pass on this piano.

Thanks for your thoughts.

P.S. I'd also be interested in any comparisons between this Bluthner and a 1910's Steinway M, on offer for a similar price from a very reputable piano technician in my area. The Steinway has had pin block and strings replaced in last 15 years, and is fully regulated. At this point, I'm a little more drawn to the bass projection of a larger grand (i.e. the Bluthner, in this case). But I can also recognize the strings on the Steinway are in better condition. Thanks for your thoughts.

Hi.... everyone on here knows I have two Blüthner 6'3s, one with the patent action...

Here's my two cents:

In the USA, Blüthners cost more than they do in the UK on both the new and used market. The price quoted for the piano seems to be about what they cost as un-restored pianos on the US market. In the UK an un-restored Blüthner with the patent action could range from as little as £800 to as much as £5000 depending on the style, finish, plate design and condition.

Treat the purchase as if the piano hasn't been restored. Find out why the three bass strings were replaced. It's fairly common on some pianos that the odd string needs to be replaced. If the piano is functioning well enough for you as it is, then I wouldn't worry too much about the bass strings right now. They probably don't *need* replaced unless you were opting for a full restoration.

Blüthner pin-blocks are incredibly robust, and rarely fail, although Blüthner UK replace pin blocks on all pre-WW2 pianos as a matter of course. Whether or not it needs replaced depends on many things. It probably doesn't need replaced if the piano holds its tuning.

The patent action is a much-maligned but very good action. With the right regulation it can play as well as, or better than any standard repetition action. The trouble is finding a technician who understands it.

As to whether a Blüthner 6'3 is better than a Steinway M:

For me, personally, EVERY Blüthner 6'3 I've played in any condition has been better than EVERY Steinway M I've played in any condition. The bass is much clearer and has much greater sustain on the Blüthner, and the tone has greater depth and clarity throughout the whole range. Those things are subjective though - what I think about a piano's tone may not be what you think.

The other thing to remember is, if you love the Steinway sound, you'll never get that from a Blüthner. If you love the Blüthner sound, you'll never get that from a Steinway. A Steinway M will always be better for you if you love the Steinway sound and feel like you need it. There are good Steinway M's out there, I'm not knocking the Steinway M as a model at all, but I do personally prefer the Blüthner 6'3 which is why I have them myself.

Finally, when I say Blüthner pin blocks are robust, and this may or may not be done, etc, I have no idea what kind of condition a Blüthner will be in having lived its life over in the USA for 80 or 90 years. I can only tell you how things are in consistently miserable Scotland. Even pianos in England differ from pianos in Scotland. They wear out faster in England because of the changes in humidity, but its more constant there in England than even some areas in the USA, which can see wild swings.

I hope I'm making sense!

Joe: so nice to have your prospective. The Bluthner's sound was seductive. And the longer bass strings are more appropriate for my purposes. Definitely leaning towards the Bluthner. Thanks.

I happen to have a 1908 catalogue to hand.

The piano will be either a Style 7 or a style 8 if it has aliquot scaling.

Is it finished in black, or the more expensive rosewood?

PM sent.

It's black, and has aliquot scaling. Thanks for chiming in.

So it's a style 8, and is 6'3, or 190cms. The new equivalent is the model 6. Being perfectly honest, a properly restored Style 8 is much better than a new model 6, for my ear anyway, although I quite like the new ones.

These old Blüthners are pretty strong, I used my 1912 Blüthner for 15 years before I had it rebuilt. I had it rebuilt not because it was sounding bad, in fact it sounded OK as it was, but because I wanted perfection and longevity, and a couple of things needed done to it that would have bought me some time but I was given an offer I couldn't refuse.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the bass, bass strings can be replaced at relatively low cost, and the plank wouldn't necessarily need to be replaced but ONLY A TECHNICIAN can make that kind of assessment on an individual piano.

What I would look out for is a thin or weak sounding treble, around the 5th octave. This is often not so much of a problem on the style 8, because the aliquot bridge also seems to do something strange to the soundboard that beefs up the sound, not just because of the extra string. It was explained to me exactly what happens but I have forgotten the ins and outs.

Finally, do check for cracks in the frame. Sometimes they can appear on Blüthners, mine actually had one that was repaired during the rebuild. During its life before the restoration, the crack in the frame never affected the performance or the tuning of the piano, but when the restoration happened it opened up a bit, revealed itself and needed to be repaired. At worst, a small crack in the frame means you can negotiate a lower price, but don't pay too much attention to it after that, the chances are that any crack would have appeared between 30 and 50 years ago, and the piano has trundled on ever since.

If it turns out that you want to have the piano fully rebuilt, it doesn't sound like this is a route that you want to take right now, but these Style 8s are wonderful candidates for restoration since the tone of them is so good, and the patent action which provides a very light and fast touch, rebuilds exceptionally well. Or you can have it replaced with a renner roller action and keyboard, but to be honest if the piano is playable, its much nicer to have the patent action restored. I use a patent action for my main practice piano now, and I notice absolutely no problems going between it and a modern action.

Once again, the details are greatly appreciated, Joe. The piano is looking more attractive by the day. Thanks for all the info!

Final piece of advice, not pertaining particularly to Blüthner or any make:

Don't fall in love with the piano before you buy it. The used piano market is a buyer's market unless it's something particularly rare, and a pre-WW2 style 8 in black might not be the most common piano around, but it's far from rare.

I say that because there is a chance that this piano might have more problems than you are willing to put money into addressing. Keep a cool head, don't get swept along by the sound and touch (or, rather, do, but maintain a sense of detachment for now). Make sure you are fully aware of all the problems with the piano, make sure you are happy to pay for the piano regardless of these problems.

Not trying to rain on the parade, but I have seen many, many beautiful old pianos and I'm aware of what kind of work can be required on them to bring them up to even a satisfactory standard.

After you've bought it, you can do as many cartwheels around the room as you want.

Thank you for the level-headed advice. BTW, is one of yours a Style 8? The one you had rebuilt?

I guess out of all the pianos I've considered buying, the Bluthner is probably the first one that I've played and couldn't really think of anything that needs improvement (other than a little bit of "tubiness" in the bass). On the other hand, the asking price is decidedly a few thousand more than most of the pianos I've been looking at. I'd be jumping on it if it were in the $4-5k range, since I still do think I'll be putting on a new set of bass strings--at some point down the road. I guess if I decide to buy it, I'd probably start out offering something like $5000...does that sound insane?

My only other reservation on the Bluthner is that it is still on the small side of what I'm looking for (the Steinway M is really on the small side). If price were truly no object, I'd be hunting Steinway Bs and Ds (and comparably sized Bechs, Bluthners, etc.).

There are several Bluthner grands at the next London auction on I think Sept.20, I'll be visiting UK then so I may drop by for the viewing days http://www.pianoauctions.co.uk/catalogue.php

There are several Bluthner grands at the next London auction on I think Sept.20, I'll be visiting UK then so I may drop by for the viewing days http://www.pianoauctions.co.uk/catalogue.php

That auction looks like a lot of fun. Enjoy.

I have two style 8s. They don't sound small. If it's Blüthner you like, there's no need to go any bigger. The Steinway M sounds small.

Yes, the next sale is on the 20th. They get some interesting stuff there. I don't need any more pianos. I would be very wary if buying there- would want a technician to inspect anything on which I were to bid. I have never been to the sale although I always look at the catalogue. I could imagine buying a music cabinet or something of the sort, but not a piano!

I bought my Broadwood square piano at this auction.

They frequently have antique Bluthner grands. However, they usually seem like candidates for restoration rather than pianos to be enjoyed straight away.

Yes if a 6'3 grand piano goes for £850 at an auction, there's usually a reason for that. Sometimes you can be lucky, but rarely. Most of them require extensive work.

Gosh they have some tasty specimens at that London auction later this month!
- a fully restored rebuilt Steinway O in burr walnut
- a Bosie Imperial Grand
- a 7ft Fazioli

All well beyond my budget, and having recently got myself the most delicious rebuilt Bechstein V my wife has banned me from looking at any more X-rated pianoporn adverts. But there are some nice looking Bluthners there too (though I'd wonder about whether the quality of the ones built during the Iron Curtain period matched the company's early 20th century or current prowess).

I'd recommend bookmarking the auction site as the day after the sale they will update the 'Estimate' column to accurately reflect what each each piano sold for, they have very knowledgable staff who appraise each piano's worth and know current "street piano prices" and the sold price is very often within the the Estimate range, but sometimes there are surprises!! i regularly went to these auctions in the early 1980's and it was a cross section of private buyers but many London and UK piano dealers. I'll be interested to see how many of these pianos esp. more recent Steinways, Bose' and Schimmel are Asian buyers, typically they have no interest in 100 year old Bechstein and Bluthners for restoration......