Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
147 registered members (akc42, ando, AndrewJCW, amyram, AaronSF, AAC127, 36251, Antihero, amad23, 38 invisible), 2,041 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 11 of 14 1 2 9 10 11 12 13 14
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758149
08/13/18 01:01 PM
08/13/18 01:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 167
Moscow, Russia
M
Max_Forte Online content
Full Member
Max_Forte  Online Content
Full Member
M

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 167
Moscow, Russia
I don't understand why everyone here describes "Upgrade" as a separate purchase of a second product. Why not implement a "sacrifice license" of Sforzando based product for a Kontakt based one? In that case, those who paid 19USD will pay 99USD - 19USD = 80USD for "Concert Grand Lite" - for Kontakt and will not be able to use Sforzando product. I think it is a fair upgrade path!

Last year I bought an audio interface and got with it for free two awesome VST plugins: Eventide - Ultrareverb and Eventide - Ultrachannel. During the Eventide spring sale got an offer to upgrade my these products to Eventide "Ultra Essentials" bundle [url=https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/plugins/bundle/ultra-essentials-bundle]Link[/urthe l] for only 49USD which was listed for 99USD ( normal price is 299USD). Nobody said: Hey Max you got your items for free there is NO upgrade for you!!! They think so: "Yes we gave them to Max for free, but now we can get another 49USD and make him feel he is very important customer for us. Who knows, maybe he will buy anything else in the future... " And they were right! Love Eventide very much!

It's all about attitude to your customers, nothing more and nothing less.


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult: UVI - Falcon; Vilabs - Ravenscroft; Pianoteq - 6 Std (Bluthner, Steinway D, K2); Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
(ad) SWEETWATER Lowest Prices
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758161
08/13/18 01:51 PM
08/13/18 01:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 10
UK
B
Boylan Offline
Junior Member
Boylan  Offline
Junior Member
B

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 10
UK
Originally Posted by Max_Forte


Why not implement a "sacrifice license" of Sforzando based product for a Kontakt based one? In that case, those who paid 19USD will pay 99USD - 19USD = 80USD for "Concert Grand Lite" - for Kontakt and will not be able to use Sforzando product. I think it is a fair upgrade path!



This is how I saw the upgrade. Buy the intro product - in this case the compact version and swap it later for a different version and pay the difference between what you paid for the intro and the cost of the upgraded product.

If you paid $19 like me there's nothing to complain about. But if you paid $99 for the compact version, how much would you now pay for the upgrade? The LE version itself is $99 right now. This pricing structure means it would be free.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758171
08/13/18 02:34 PM
08/13/18 02:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,445
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
2000 Post Club Member
TheodorN  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,445
Sweden
This is not how the upgrade scheme works.

Quote
Upgrade from Concert Grand Compact sforzando to any Kontakt version of Concert Grand: We will apply your purchase price towards the cost minus $20. So if you paid $99 for Concert Grand Compact and want to upgrade to Concert Grand LE we will credit you $79 towards Concert Grand. Contact support@productionvoices.com to request upgrade pricing and individual pricing.

From a Production voices email to subscribers.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758179
08/13/18 02:57 PM
08/13/18 02:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 10
UK
B
Boylan Offline
Junior Member
Boylan  Offline
Junior Member
B

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 10
UK
So I paid $19. Minus the $20 means I get -$1 towards Concert grand LE? So LE would costs me $1 more than if I hadn't bought compact in the first place. Cool.

It's only a $ but something tells me this hasn't been well thought out.

I think Compact was a huge bargain at $19. I'm very happy with. Like I said, I'd pay for a couple more mics in sforzando but won't be going the Kontakt route. It would mean a several hundreds of £s upgrading HDs, memory and possibly the processor as well as the cost of Kontakt. I'm just a home user, not a studio or a composer.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758191
08/13/18 03:53 PM
08/13/18 03:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,445
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
2000 Post Club Member
TheodorN  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,445
Sweden
I was joking when I said here earlier, that I would owe Jason a dollar if I were to get the Concert Grand, any version with nine microphone pairs. Of course the price won't be raised by a dollar, for those who got the Compact version for $19.

The $20 mark just means that those who got the Compact at $19 won't get any discount, those who got it at $29, will get $9 towards any of the 9 mic versions, at $39 will get you $19, and all the way up to $79, for those who bought Compact at the full price, $99.

I agree with you about the Compact, it is pretty good, and possibly up there with many piano VSTs around the $100 mark.

What you said about being a home user, not a studio or a composer, I think I've raised the attention to this before, that both Production Grand, and the new Steinway Concert Grand, are exactly geared towards the studios, and the professionals.

Just read the Production Voices website, and you'll see that clearly. As for the home user, maybe (s)he is better off with Pianoteq 6? At least those who don't dislike the sound character of the Pianoteq piano models.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758203
08/13/18 04:57 PM
08/13/18 04:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 10
UK
B
Boylan Offline
Junior Member
Boylan  Offline
Junior Member
B

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 10
UK
Originally Posted by TheodorN


The $20 mark just means that those who got the Compact at $19 won't get any discount, those who got it at $29, will get $9 towards any of the 9 mic versions, at $39 will get you $19, and all the way up to $79, for those who bought Compact at the full price, $99.



I was joking too.

Not sure about Pianoteq. What I've heard does sound a bit off, but they all do. None truly sound like a piano to me. They don't have the right attack, bite, or presence or energy or what have you. They have got a lot better true, but they still have a way to go. And much depends on the quality of the playback gear you have.

And I agree with you about the target market being geared more towards the professionals. They may not sound like a real piano or even a good recording of a real piano but in a mix it would be hard to tell and they sure are a lot easier than miking up a piano. Have you seen how much those mics that they use on the Concert Grand cost?

It's he, bye the way.

PS. Just listened to a pianoteq steinway being compared to a real one and it doesn't sound half bad actually. But I'll stick with what I've got for the time being. I mean - $19 vs whatever.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758209
08/13/18 05:18 PM
08/13/18 05:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,445
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
2000 Post Club Member
TheodorN  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,445
Sweden
The microphones are surely very expensive, though I don't know the exact prices. Looked up the Neumann M149, outside microphones on Thomann, €4,499 and they're yours.


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: TheodorN] #2758215
08/13/18 05:54 PM
08/13/18 05:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 10
UK
B
Boylan Offline
Junior Member
Boylan  Offline
Junior Member
B

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 10
UK
Originally Posted by TheodorN
The microphones are surely very expensive, though I don't know the exact prices. Looked up the Neumann M149, outside microphones on Thomann, €4,499 and they're yours.


I'll take 2 please.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758364
08/14/18 08:34 AM
08/14/18 08:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,445
Sweden
TheodorN Offline
2000 Post Club Member
TheodorN  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,445
Sweden
laugh


My YouTube channel

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX. Prod. Voices: Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand Compact, Est. Grand, Studio Grand LE. NI Giant. Galaxy II Blüthner Baby Grand. AcousticSamples C7. AK Studio Grand. Sampletekk Black. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758559
08/15/18 09:31 AM
08/15/18 09:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 327
G
Grazilerimba Offline
Full Member
Grazilerimba  Offline
Full Member
G

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 327
Bought the LE version. Didn't spend too much time with it yet, but here's some first impressions.

The Compact version doesn't provide a good representation of this instrument, to me personally there's no comparison to the LE version. Additionally, I'd say that the Kontakt version feels a lot more "sturdy". I don't like the sforzando sampler too much.

The instrument sounds very beautiful and rich. Playability is solid so far, but the velocity controls are only pretty basic. You can choose between two curve types and then you have a knob for changing that curve. There's no way to add points or something like that. From what I can see, the Production Grand 2 had the same lack of finer velocity controls. I don't like that.

The sound is superb, and the microphones are a joy to experiment with. There's this whole ambisonics thing that I don't fully understand yet. You can do some kind of positional room micing and there's a deluge of settings and presets for it. I tried out some stuff and the sound is very nice. The sheer amount of customization of the sound will make advanced users who might come from the pro audio scene very happy, I'd suppose.

There is one thing that bothers me, and that's a part in the upper registers of about one or two octaves that feels a lot quieter than the rest. This was already present in the Compact version and I notice it here very strongly. It's as if he accidentally used una chorda samples for the notes in the question, that's how significantly different these keys feel to me. I'd like to hear the opinion of other users about this though, because in the past I have viewed such things very differently from other users here.

I did not notice any out of tune notes or anything, and besides this above mentioned range, the rest of the keyboard felt pretty even so far.

I guess in Kontakt you can probably make individual notes louder? Perhaps I can try to fix that segment myself somehow.

If the LE samples already sound so rich I wonder how the bigger samples must sound.

The instrument is fun to play with so far. I'll spend some more time with it and then write some more thoughts.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Grazilerimba] #2758785
08/16/18 02:40 AM
08/16/18 02:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1
J
jeremy12 Offline
Junior Member
jeremy12  Offline
Junior Member
J

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
Bought the LE version. Didn't spend too much time with it yet, but here's some first impressions.

The Compact version doesn't provide a good representation of this instrument, to me personally there's no comparison to the LE version. Additionally, I'd say that the Kontakt version feels a lot more "sturdy". I don't like the sforzando sampler too much.

The instrument sounds very beautiful and rich. Playability is solid so far, but the velocity controls are only pretty basic. You can choose between two curve types and then you have a knob for changing that curve. There's no way to add points or something like that. From what I can see, the Production Grand 2 had the same lack of finer velocity controls. I don't like that.

The sound is superb, and the microphones are a joy to experiment with. There's this whole ambisonics thing that I don't fully understand yet. You can do some kind of positional room micing and there's a deluge of settings and presets for it. I tried out some stuff and the sound is very nice. The sheer amount of customization of the sound will make advanced users who might come from the pro audio scene very happy, I'd suppose.

There is one thing that bothers me, and that's a part in the upper registers of about one or two octaves that feels a lot quieter than the rest. This was already present in the Compact version and I notice it here very strongly. It's as if he accidentally used una chorda samples for the notes in the question, that's how significantly different these keys feel to me. I'd like to hear the opinion of other users about this though, because in the past I have viewed such things very differently from other users here.

I did not notice any out of tune notes or anything, and besides this above mentioned range, the rest of the keyboard felt pretty even so far.

I guess in Kontakt you can probably make individual notes louder? Perhaps I can try to fix that segment myself somehow.

If the LE samples already sound so rich I wonder how the bigger samples must sound.

The instrument is fun to play with so far. I'll spend some more time with it and then write some more thoughts.


How are you finding the playability compared to vsl cfx or garritan cfx? Those have long been my favorite libraries and nothing else I've tried has even come close to the playability that those two libraries give me. Unfortunately, they're both samples based on the cfx and I really want a good steinway library.

I'm thinking about taking the plunge for this library during the promotional pricing period but I've purchased several libraries lately that sounded good in the demos and were not enjoyable to play at all (the latest being the new embertone steinway).

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: jeremy12] #2758789
08/16/18 03:13 AM
08/16/18 03:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 260
R
RobR Offline
Full Member
RobR  Offline
Full Member
R

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by jeremy12
How are you finding the playability compared to vsl cfx or garritan cfx? Those have long been my favorite libraries and nothing else I've tried has even come close to the playability that those two libraries give me. Unfortunately, they're both samples based on the cfx and I really want a good steinway library.

I'm thinking about taking the plunge for this library during the promotional pricing period but I've purchased several libraries lately that sounded good in the demos and were not enjoyable to play at all (the latest being the new embertone steinway).


A VSL Steinway is not a far fetched realization since they have one in the Synchron stage. When will they sample it no one knows.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: jeremy12] #2758828
08/16/18 08:06 AM
08/16/18 08:06 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 686
K
karvala Offline
500 Post Club Member
karvala  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 686
Originally Posted by jeremy12

How are you finding the playability compared to vsl cfx or garritan cfx? Those have long been my favorite libraries and nothing else I've tried has even come close to the playability that those two libraries give me. Unfortunately, they're both samples based on the cfx and I really want a good steinway library.

I'm thinking about taking the plunge for this library during the promotional pricing period but I've purchased several libraries lately that sounded good in the demos and were not enjoyable to play at all (the latest being the new embertone steinway).


I've just been testing the Concert Grand LE as well. I'll post some review comments when I've played it a bit longer, but I can answer this easily now: playability is, in my view, substantially lower than those two, which both remain top of the playability list for me as well, by some margin. I agree it would be great to have a Steinway sound with the same quality and playability as the CFX instruments, but this definitely isn't it. I'm also hopeful that VSL will sample their Steinway (which is a far superior acoustic instrument to the one used here as well), which could be very interesting.

Last edited by karvala; 08/16/18 08:06 AM.

Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: karvala] #2758914
08/16/18 12:54 PM
08/16/18 12:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 167
Moscow, Russia
M
Max_Forte Online content
Full Member
Max_Forte  Online Content
Full Member
M

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 167
Moscow, Russia
I find its playability great but I don't have CFXs, so can't compare them. Feeling under the fingers reminds me of Pianoteq. Sure in these terms Pianoteq is The King and is VERY FAR away from ANY SAMPLED piano, but it's easy to jump from Pianoteq to the Concert Grand during playing without any adaptation. Can't say anything about half-pedaling as my single pedal is an "ON-OFF" switch.

Beautiful rich sound. Much better than on demos.


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult: UVI - Falcon; Vilabs - Ravenscroft; Pianoteq - 6 Std (Bluthner, Steinway D, K2); Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: jeremy12] #2758947
08/16/18 02:52 PM
08/16/18 02:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 327
G
Grazilerimba Offline
Full Member
Grazilerimba  Offline
Full Member
G

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 327
@jeremy12, I'd say the playability so far feels very solid, but I'd agree with karvala that it is below the Garritan CFX in that regard. I'd say though that it isn't too far off. The bad thing really is the lack of velocity options (pretty poor for a piano library in 2018) as well as that range in the upper registers that feels very quiet. Although, the VSL CFX has even less options with a cryptic 'midi sensitivity' slider that doesn't allow any customization at all. Even poorer for 2018.

To the others who have bought this, would you agree about that range of keys in the upper registers that feels quieter than the rest? As I said it feels like he accidentally used una corda samples, that's how big the difference to the rest of the keyboard is to me.

This is not to take away anything from the fantastic sound of this, though. As I wrote above, the microphone options are really good. If you know your stuff in the pro audio world you'll love this.

Last edited by Grazilerimba; 08/16/18 02:53 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758975
08/16/18 04:43 PM
08/16/18 04:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 167
Moscow, Russia
M
Max_Forte Online content
Full Member
Max_Forte  Online Content
Full Member
M

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 167
Moscow, Russia
Not sure on "Quite keys" I hear some differences in velocity: it's not just loudness but also a "color" of a tone.

But I have to say that Production Voices have to do some improvements and fixes on Kontakt script part of the instrument. There are many little issues that can upset your impressions of this really beautiful piano.

First flaw: It takes 28 - 45 seconds to fully load instrument (standalone). My system's specs are below.

How can I change the state of presets? I hate that when you choose a preset from the drop-down menu all mics are "ON"! Even those that are muted!
And it takes 3.2GB of RAM. It's not an issue with resources. I'm on Core i7 6700K + 16GB RAM, but it took too long to load samples! I have Kontakt installed on Samsung 850 Pro SSD which is used as a system drive, and samples on dedicated for VSTis Samsung 850 EVO SSD, so I can expect almost instant loading, but no...



[Linked Image]

The second screenshot shows switched off unused microphones and decreased RAM appetite


[Linked Image]



And don't be fooled by reverb field in the upper-right corner: If it shows something besides "BYPASS" it's not mean reverb is audible or switched on.
As you can see on the third screenshot you have to enter "Mixer" tab to turn "ON" the reverb!

[Linked Image]


You might think: Now reverb is really working! But not so fast! It's too easy for us, computer geeks, to be so.

What? You are not a geek... Unbelievable! But you had to go to the "Master FX" tab and add an amount to master send slider.

[Linked Image]



Just facepalm.


PV, please fix all errors and release an update.

Above all: I didn't expect such a brilliant quality of the Concert Grand. I like it very much! Superb sounding instrument.


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult: UVI - Falcon; Vilabs - Ravenscroft; Pianoteq - 6 Std (Bluthner, Steinway D, K2); Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2758982
08/16/18 05:00 PM
08/16/18 05:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,452
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,452
Raleigh, North Carolina
I don't have this piano, but when I load a multi it contains six pianos. The total load is 1.1 GB and it loads in seconds ... maybe ten seconds or so.

So ... if I were loading 3.2 GB then I, too, would likely see 28 - 45 second load times.
Ya wants da big sounds, ya gots ta loads da big RAM.

You could go into the Kontakt settings and reduce the per-sample load size. I think the default is 60 kB per sample.
Maybe if this were instead set to 30 kB the load time would drop in half?
It would then remain to be seen whether you'd suffer latency-related dropouts due to the reduced buffer size.

It's worth a try.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Max_Forte] #2758990
08/16/18 05:20 PM
08/16/18 05:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 260
R
RobR Offline
Full Member
RobR  Offline
Full Member
R

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Not sure on "Quite keys" I hear some differences in velocity: it's not just loudness but also a "color" of a tone.

But I have to say that Production Voices have to do some improvements and fixes on Kontakt script part of the instrument. There are many little issues that can upset your impressions of this really beautiful piano.

First flaw: It takes 28 - 45 seconds to fully load instrument (standalone). My system's specs are below.

How can I change the state of presets? I hate that when you choose a preset from the drop-down menu all mics are "ON"! Even those that are muted!
And it takes 3.2GB of RAM. It's not an issue with resources. I'm on Core i7 6700K + 16GB RAM, but it took too long to load samples! I have Kontakt installed on Samsung 850 Pro SSD which is used as a system drive, and samples on dedicated for VSTis Samsung 850 EVO SSD, so I can expect almost instant loading, but no...



[Linked Image]

The second screenshot shows switched off unused microphones and decreased RAM appetite


[Linked Image]



And don't be fooled by reverb field in the upper-right corner: If it shows something besides "BYPASS" it's not mean reverb is audible or switched on.
As you can see on the third screenshot you have to enter "Mixer" tab to turn "ON" the reverb!

[Linked Image]


You might think: Now reverb is really working! But not so fast! It's too easy for us, computer geeks, to be so.

What? You are not a geek... Unbelievable! But you had to go to the "Master FX" tab and add an amount to master send slider.

[Linked Image]



Just facepalm.


PV, please fix all errors and release an update.

Above all: I didn't expect such a brilliant quality of the Concert Grand. I like it very much! Superb sounding instrument.

Batch re-save, it will load faster.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: RobR] #2758996
08/16/18 05:43 PM
08/16/18 05:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 167
Moscow, Russia
M
Max_Forte Online content
Full Member
Max_Forte  Online Content
Full Member
M

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 167
Moscow, Russia
Thanks, tdwctdwc,
"Batch Re-Save" helped. Now loading takes 7 Seconds.

I did "Batch Re-Save" two times after copying into the installation folder as had to point the samples folder. Didn't think doing it from time to time is possible without any "Harm".


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult: UVI - Falcon; Vilabs - Ravenscroft; Pianoteq - 6 Std (Bluthner, Steinway D, K2); Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand [Re: Cinjero] #2759005
08/16/18 06:10 PM
08/16/18 06:10 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 686
K
karvala Offline
500 Post Club Member
karvala  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 686
Yes, there is undoubtedly a major problem with the amplitude of keys in the upper register; when you get more than an octave or so above C4, it is a lot quieter. I don't think it's mistaken una corda samples (though I know what you mean), I think it's a problem with the acoustic instrument itself. I don't know what instrument he sampled for this, nor how old it is, but it does not give a good account of itself. Apart from that very tired sounding upper range, there are notable timbre changes from note to the next, some further local amplitude differences, and some outright faults (e.g. play A1 with reasonable velocity, and enjoy the fog horn sound!). There are also numerous minor tuning problems (play a few octaves or fifths and listen through to the uncomfortable harmonics). All of suggests an older and not very well maintained instrument. I'm sure PV would beg to differ, but that's clearly what it sounds like.

In terms of playability: certainly the lack of the velocity curve options doesn't help, although as Grazlilerimba points out, the VSL CFX is arguably even worse in that regard. To me, though, playability is a measure of the level of nuance, of subtly, of variety, that can be achieved; it's tested by playing pieces that require very quiet, very carefully balanced sounds and ideally a variety of timbres. Both CFX instruments do this exceptionally well, largely because they are very evenly sampled, carefully processed, with integrated ambient sounds, wide dynamic range and a large number of sample layers (which turns out to be quite useful after all). By contrast, I find playability in this instrument is middling at best, because the attack is much too sharp even at low velocities, the tone too strident and the amplitude and timbre much too uneven to allow finely-nuanced control. For loud or busy music, this instrument would be fine; in fact, I think it would make quite a good pop piano. For classical, though, it's just too rough and in-your-face for my taste.

While I'm here, some further review comments. Download and installation was mixed: their server supports good download speeds, which is much to their credit, so it was downloaded in about three hours on my connection. On the other the other hand, the Connect software is awful, managing to randomly crash three times during the download, requiring attention each time. I was surprised by the total absence of installation instructions as well; it's fine for most of us here who are familiar with Kontakt and VSTis more generally, but a novice would likely be lost. And why no NI code so that it can be properly integrated into Kontakt? Other third-party piano libraries (CinePiano, Galaxy Vintage D etc.) manage it just fine.

The microphone options are good, though honestly, not quite as varied in sound as I was hoping; substantially less varied than the VSL CFX microphones, for example, although more varied than those in the TrueKeys pianos. The range of sound customisation options is good as well - including convolution and algorithmic builtin reverb, multi-band EQ, and most unusually, transient editing. Continuous and authentic pedal support is great to have, and the Ambisonics virtual speaker facility is a fantastic idea; it brings some Pianoteq-like features to a sampled instrument.

Unfortunately, though, a lot of it doesn't actually work as expected. The authentic pedal seems to be broken for me (anyone else tried it?), having a very strange effect on the sounds. Similarly, the Ambisonics options are less user-friendly than they could be, but more fundamentally also broken and creating very strange sounds. I hope both of those will be fixed in due course. The user interface also has some very strange behaviour; for example, selecting a convolution reverb setting on the Main page at the moment wipes out all of the other settings, so that all mics are turned off, all speakers are panned left, all volumes are minimised etc.. Some settings are present on multiple pages, but the settings are not always or reliably carried across from one page to another. Basically, it's clunky and buggy. It's usable, but it's a lot harder work than it needs to be.

Final comment: I've talked before about 'house styles' in virtual pianos, with particular brands have a particular approach to sampling, audio processing, scripting. This instrument is a further example of that; it is much close to the Production Grand (a Yamaha C7) in terms of sound, style, options, playability etc., then it is to Steinway Ds from other brands (e.g. The Grandeur, Galaxy Vintage D, TrueKeys American Grand, Ivory ACD etc.). That's not to say it doesn't sound like a Steinway - it just about does. Ultimately, if you like the Production Grand, you'll probably like this. If you don't like the Production Grand, you probably won't like this either.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Page 11 of 14 1 2 9 10 11 12 13 14

Moderated by  Piano World 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
From digital to real strings piano
by ng80092a. 10/18/19 05:49 PM
Don't tell me you can't find a good piano cheap!
by mivaldes. 10/18/19 03:38 PM
Low Volume with MacBook Pro/Garritan CFX Full
by JamesR73. 10/18/19 02:28 PM
Pausing on the key note playing scales?
by matthew28. 10/18/19 12:38 PM
Adult vs regular method books
by chara. 10/18/19 12:38 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,591
Posts2,880,693
Members94,706
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1