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I was looking at my son’s Spotify playlist. Drake? You call that noise music? I just couldn’t comprehend.

I can’t say he had a poor music education.
School took them to symphony orchestra once a year since grade 3, and take them to other concerts 4 times a year.
He plays “orthodox” music in 2 different assemblies.
He has been playing piano for many years, he played Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin…..

Yet he listens to Drake.

How exactly is musical taste cultivated?

I think taste is cultivated, at least in one way, by what we are exposed to. Your son is young, he's exposed to that kind of music, I think it's that simple. I sometimes wonder if we had access to a time machine and could bring Bach, Mozart or Beethoven to the present day, what kind of music would they enjoy listening to. I think we might be surprised.

Don’t dismiss the influence of his peers...., every kid wants to fit in (at least to some extent) with his friends, and that includes their music. How do I know? I was there in a time far, far away.

What's wrong with his musical taste?

You know who Drake is?

Is your son 14 yet? That seems to be the magical number when musical taste is cemented.

My college professors kept telling me to explore 20th-century "classical" music. I still can't stand most of it. I like Adams, Liebermann, Ligeti, Shostakovich, and Prokofiev, and maybe some composers of ethnic music. But I don't go out of my way to listen to Messiaen, Webern, or Hindemith. There's stuff by Xenakis, Vine, Boulez, and other extremely atonal composers that I would equate with Drake.

This.
Kids who know nothing about popular culture are usually pretty odd.

Monkeys, is it possible that he just doesn't want to listen to the type of music that he plays? That's how I am, and how I've always been. I love to play Classical music (more precisely, solo keyboard works from the Common Practice Period), but I do not listen to Classical music recreationally. I only listen to Classical when researching new pieces to learn or investigating different approaches to interpretations. I cannot just "enjoy" listening to Classical - I get frustrated because I'd rather be playing it myself than listening to it. It drives me nuts.

The music that I enjoy listening to, just listening to for fun, is Japanese Disco. Yes, that is a very niche genre and I often listen to American or European Disco, but Japanese Disco is my absolute favourite. (Of all the languages I've been exposed to over the years, I find Japanese to be the most poetic.) I do not play Disco music in any shape, form, or fashion, and I have never had any inclination to play Disco. I just listen to it and enjoy it (and drive my wife nuts by over-analyzing it).

BTW, what's a Drake? Some sort of duck? Or medicinal herb? I suppose I could google it, but I'm almost afraid to...



Ditto, except my list of acceptable 20th-century "classical" composers is even smaller. I do like some of William Bolcom's ragtime material, though...



Hey, I resemble that remark! When I was 14, I had no clue what other kids my age were listening to, and neither did I care. I still don't know what they would have been listening to back then. I didn't go to high school, and I was actually pretty isolated. I was hardly ever around anyone my age, generally just adults. At age 14, my favorite band was the Kingston Trio. That lasted until I took up the 5-string banjo and could play traditional music for myself... then I no longer wanted to listen to it much.

Go

Do you mean that it doesn't evolve much past this age?
If so, I couldn't disagree more. I think musical taste can evolve very much with age, and their could be very little limits to it. But I've recently read an article saying that people tend to stop listening to new music after 25-30 years old in general.

As for myself, when I was 12-15, I was listening to bad pop music (Britney Spears, Spice Girls, ...).
From 16-20, I was more into francophone music, with groups like Les Cowboys fringants, Mes Aieux and Tryo.
From 21-27, I listened mostly to symphonic metal, my favorite group being Epica.
From 28 to now (31), I concentrated my listening of music to Classical, mostly solo piano, solo instrument + piano (or stictly solo other instrument. Bach wrote wonderful pieces for solo violin or solo cello) or chamber music. Starting to play the piano makes me loving the discovery of new pieces, and listening to good interprets foster my motivation to get better so I can play a little more like them.

I also like swing music (Benny Goodman, Count Basie, Django Rheinard, ...), rock and old-pop (Gun's and roses, The Beatles, Bon Jovi, Michael Jackson, ...) and still like everythin I've listened too since I'm 16.
I wouldn't worry to much about your son liking "bad" music. I think many young people have a phase where they listen to scrap. Probably the best thing you can do is keep him exposed to different genres of music. When under your roof, it is easy to do.

I remember my mom listening to music in the car, which I had no saying about. I hated when she put on things like Céline Dion, but I loved when she was listening to Frank Sinatra or The Platters, a kind of music I might not have known wouldn't have it been of that music in the car.

Musical tastes cemented? Not yet for me... and I am near retirement age.

My musical tastes have been evolving for the past 40 years. Rock, then hard rock, then southern blues, then alternative rock, then jazz, now classical. Throw in a little EDM and shoe-gaze, just a tiny bit. I still listen to all the above genres. Just no country please.




BTW Doc....check this out....

Did you listen to any of the actual songs that he had downloaded, or is this a reaction to the name?

This may be part of the process of cultivating his own musical tastes (in the plural).

Especially as our children get older,entering the teen years preceding adulthood, we can comprehend a lot by listening to them, with an open and non-judgmental mind. It's tricky, because teens don't feel comfortable when parents pry, but at the same time they like to share their discoveries and ideas - coming to the parent when they're ready to share things.

How about asking him what he likes about Drake's music - or which of his music he likes, and why.

Btw, I knew nothing about Drake so I googled. The first song that came up showed impoverished people on a street corner, the rapper giving out big cheques so that they could all buy what the needed; the atmosphere changes from hopeless people left behind by a greedy uncaring society to momentary hope and gesture of kindness. I can see the appeal to young people. This video alone could lead to some profound family discussions. Playing Mozart won't do that. Though you might explore the socio-economic realities in Mozart's day; or how Bach was jailed by his patrons by writing music according to his own tastes.

I think the music is largely "rap" style? So at first sounds monotonous and ultra repetitive to a classical ear. But the complex rhythms and interweaving of voices might be something for a teacher to explore. It's not the genre of music I listen to, and I don't think I could listen to this much, but it did seem to be more than "noise".

As a person who mostly dislike rap, I've listened to one group of rap in my earlier days, because the text was very smart and intricated. When the focus is less on music, it is more on the text. When the text is smart, it can be enjoyable once in a while (imo) and, as you say, a good basis for a discussion.

As schmalzy as parts are, I enjoyed watching this movie some time back. One of the main characters is a boy entering his teen years, and his relationship both with Bach and with his father, and contemplation of society's order and effect on personal choices, at that time.

I think some folks here are confusing "taste" with "knowledge."

When you are 14, you may not even know the existence of certain artists, or styles of music, or the music may not be been written yet. When you become exposed to that music later on, that's knowledge. You may come to learn about this music and appreciate it later in life. That does not mean your taste changed.

You can almost draw a parallel with food. The foods that you grew up loving by age 14 you will almost certainly keep eating until the day you die. There may be new foods that you did not know at age 14, but once you tasted it and liked it, you keep eating it. It doesn't mean your "taste" changed. You gained food "knowledge."

Hopefully this will cement your understanding of the word "taste."

I understand what you are saying but taste changes with knowledge and exposure .Just thought I might add that .

I know the difference between knowledge and taste. Both for food and music, There were both I had knowledge of before the age of 14, but were not considered my ‘taste’ until many years later.

Hmm, I don't know. I think a lot of people outgrow Kraft mac 'n cheese and spaghettios (apologies to anyone who still loves them). Seriously, I can hardly think of anything I loved as a child and still eat (steak, maybe), but a lot that I don't (do they even make Ring Dings anymore?).

(This is a side issue, I know, just an analogy and not about piano or music--but I don't think it's true.)

I deliberately made sure to write "tastes" in the plural.

In case I was included in these "some folks", I know the difference between what is often called (good) taste; tastes; knowledge; and also how they interrelate.

"Taste" (in the singular) often has a value judgment. If a person likes certain things in music, or fashion, or art, he has "no taste"; lacks refinement; is of a lesser class etc. Such values may be based on something real, or merely because "better people" or "more refined people" or "educated people" like Bach and not Pop. There are values attached to this, sometimes social; sometimes judgment.

"Tastes" - by this I mean the person tastes that a person develops. What he likes and doesn't like; enjoys and doesn't enjoy. Someone exploring all kinds of music is developing his own tastes. Actually exploring non-classical music might give you new insight into classical music: those rhythms, for example. Or it may lead you to prefer classical, through the differences.

Someone who chooses non-classical music merely to be with the in-crowd of peer groups; that seems no different than doing the same for the sake of "having good taste". In both, of you know why you're choosing what you're choosing, that is a better thing. And knowledge does play a role. If you like classical music, can you say what you like about it? That is one reason why we study music.

I've noticed that often advanced musicians have the greatest interest in other kinds of music, maybe because of what they can hear. I am thinking right how of Leonard Bernstein who made a case for the Beatles and the music of young people of that generation.

I linked the movie about Bach because in the beginning you see that his music was considered in poor taste. there were attempts to constrain him to what was considered acceptable at the time.

It has also been pointed out to me that some classical music is rather second rate, and some non-classical music has quite a lot to it. I don't know where the musician in question falls in regards to this.

I hope that this makes more clear what I was trying to say before.

outgrow? never!