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Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758666 08/15/18 05:24 PM
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There are so many options for you, and so many good suggestions here already. What I would do in your situation is make friends with a good technician - somebody who really understands good instruments (Sally Philips for instance, although she has a Steinway bias as a dealer, she really knows her stuff when it comes to pianos - and Steinways are beautifully made instruments).

That way, you may find that you know of instruments in your area coming up for sale. Recently on Living Pianos there was a Blüthner Model 2, 7'11, made new in the year 2000, finished in Bubinga, and he was asking $47,000 or thereabouts. The piano had been virtually unplayed and so was in as close to new condition as you could find. While at that price it's not exactly a steal, it's certainly as much piano as anybody needs, and it was a substantial saving over the equivalent new piano by a long shot. That's not to say that a Blüthner model 2 would be the right piano for you, but you may find similar situations with Steinways, Bösendorfers, Faziolis, Yamahas, Shigeru Kawai....

In the new price range I'm not sure what you can get since pianos in the USA are a lot more expensive than in the UK. But just so you know, I was in Vienna recently and I went to see Stingl Klavier since I may do a concert for them next year. They sell Fazioli, the full Kawai range, Grotrian, Ronisch, and their own brand Stingl which they make to order in Vienna.

I played a Kawai GL-50, a GX-3, a GX-5, and a Shigeru SK6. I found the Shigeru to be absolutely beautiful, the highest quality, not quite a match for the Fazioli, but a beautiful piano in its own right. The GX pianos I found to be beautiful instruments more than adequate for any pianist to practice on. They didn't have quite the same range as the Shigeru in terms of colours available to the pianist, but then I don't know of any young pianist who would require that anyway, regardless of whether they are playing the Liszt etudes at 15 or not. The GL-50 was clearly a step below the GX series, but was still a most excellent piano. It was clear and singing, but with warmth, and it had a beautiful even touch. It would be a great piano in any practice situation where the highest levels of artistry were not so important but the need for a solid reliable piano with a pleasing tone was paramount.

I know there are some good Chinese pianos available now, but to be honest I don't know that end of the market well at all anymore.

Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758675 08/15/18 05:50 PM
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Kate as a footnote to the information joe80 kindly provided you, the better chinese-built pianos are almost never sold under an 'asian sounding' name, Hailun the main exception. chinese(and Indonesian - - both of Yamaha and Kawai sell pianos under their brands made in Indonesia, and Boston/sold by steinway is made by Kawai) - built pianos include some lines of Schimmel and Seiler , virtually all of the Baldwin grands made now, Ritmueller, Perzina and others.

Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758684 08/15/18 06:13 PM
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Used Steinway A or Mason Hamlin BB

If you want to save some pennies as said above used Yamaha

Save a bit more and still have agreat piano Halun 218 or Brodmann 212

Way to be a supermom by the way!


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758687 08/15/18 06:26 PM
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If you find a Registered Piano Tecnician whose opinion you trust I would definitely include used and rebuilt pianos in your search. I found a fully rebuilt Mason & Hamlin BB which is the 7’ model at much less than your 45K budget.

A rebuilt piano can be considered practically “good as new” but at a greater value for your dollar.

Read the Piano Buyer online. It goes into how to evaluate a used piano. After reading it, I felt confident looking at my rebuilt piano. I have never regretted my decision to buy rebuilt.


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Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Markarian #2758690 08/15/18 06:40 PM
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The newer Masons I have recently played don't resemble their predecessors at all. I wouldn't own one over a late model Yamaha C6 or a comparable Kawai. An older rebuilt M&H BB could be an option but I would have either a Pro player (could be hired), his teacher or an outside tech (not the builder) sign off on it.

Yamaha C7/6 is always a sure bet if you can't get a Steinway. And don't let anyone say they are too bright. A skilled tech can bring out a beautiful singing mellow tone in either of those pianos - as long as the hammers are in good shape and it hasn't been pounded on or it came from a rock recording studio. That's why I said a late model.

In Chandler - might be too much piano for you though.
https://www.pianomart.com/buy-a-piano/view?id=28938

But in any case 45K is a great budget. What a lucky boy.

Last edited by Dave Ferris; 08/15/18 06:49 PM.

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Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758717 08/15/18 07:48 PM
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Kate Kate -

I live in Phoenix and have purchased three pianos (a baby grand, an upright, and a digital) from the local dealer you mention above. I've also purchased two pianos from what is now our area's authorized Steinway dealer.

I am also a former piano teacher, and would be more than happy to offer some insights to help you with your search.

The Estonia 210 would be an excellent choice - in terms of cost, size and quality. I've played the 210 in the dealer's showroom and it is a wonderful instrument. The smaller Estonia 190 would also serve your son's needs.

The important thing is to do your research (i.e., read the piano buyer's guide) - and not rush the decision-making process.

Please feel free to send me a Private Message.

Carey (Phil)


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Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
WilliamTruitt #2758734 08/15/18 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamTruitt
you could certainly find a Mason & Hamlin BB 7' piano totally rebuilt top to bottom for that price.

Will Truitt


This would be one possibility for a really awesome piano. Love those old Mason & Hamlin grands and a well rebuilt one would be hard to beat.

I'm also kind of a sucker for a similar sized Baldwin, well rebuilt if it's an older one. Very sweet and warm sound.

But hey, everybody has their "sweet spot" and we're not all the same. For some, a sound more like the Yamaha or Kawai might be more appealing. Whatever your flavor, you should be able to find something you like with that kind of budget. Go play a bunch of them. Try out ones that you're not familiar with even. Never know, there might be a specific piano that speaks to you.

smile Good luck!

Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758737 08/15/18 09:02 PM
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Dunno how old your son is, but I can only assume you'll include him in this selection process if he's going to be the primary player.


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758746 08/15/18 09:24 PM
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If you'd like to try a used Yamaha S6, as Dave Ferris suggested, there's one at Stilwell Pianos in Mesa, Az.. I've never done business with them but the owner was very honest and helpful with me on the phone.

Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Markarian #2758755 08/15/18 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Markarian
Dunno how old your son is, but I can only assume you'll include him in this selection process if he's going to be the primary player.

The OP told us her son is 8 years old.


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Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758768 08/15/18 11:41 PM
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Hi Kate,

With the exception of Steinway, all pianos are money-pits, and their value drops like a stone once you get them home from the dealer - just like a car. This means that used pianos are hugely better value than new ones, and unlike cars, most people think that they improve with age as their mechanicals settle down. Not only that, the shoddiest pianos have a life of at least 30 years and the best are still going 100+ years on.

If you're prepared to look at used pianos (and why not?) you will find huge numbers which have hardly been played - perhaps half - as learners discovered that their aspirations out-stripped their ability and dedication to learning the instrument. Further, the make of piano says more about the way that the piano was built than what it is going to sound like, and a competent technician can transform an instrument from brilliant to soft (or vice versa). That said, you will find that Bluthners are generally the softest and most muted all the way to Yamahas, which I find shrill. So pianos are unlike cars and much more like people, with each one having its own particular character.

As your lad is only 8 and still growing, I'd follow the advice above and get a really good technician to spend a day tidying up your Kawai (which is a very fine make), regulating it and voicing it how your son likes. It will be an education for him and considerably cheaper than buying a new grand piano. He's obviously making good progress and a move to a grand piano is definitely on the cards - but having had 2 of my 3 daughters learn the piano, I have seen how other distractions that come with growing up, can get in the way.

When you make the move to a grand, take your time and look at dozens of pianos until you have a much clearer idea of which ones appeal. The piano you want to buy is the one which you just want to keep on playing. Only then look at the name on the fall board, and I'll bet you it'll be one of the splendid makes people have described above.


The English may not like music much, but they love the sound it makes ... Beecham
Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758800 08/16/18 04:59 AM
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If new, a Shigeru Kawai.


phacke

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J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
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Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758801 08/16/18 05:06 AM
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You will get as many brand preferences as you get responses; thank goodness, or there would be a shortage if we all liked the same one. Please take Carey up on his generous offer to help; he lives near you and can provide experienced advice regarding the options you have.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Fareham #2758817 08/16/18 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Fareham
With the exception of Steinway, all pianos are money-pits, and their value drops like a stone once you get them home from the dealer - just like a car. This means that used pianos are hugely better value than new ones, and unlike cars, most people think that they improve with age as their mechanicals settle down. Not only that, the shoddiest pianos have a life of at least 30 years and the best are still going 100+ years on.
The depreciation on Steinways is almost as much as other pianos, at least in the U.S. I also don't think most people think pianos improve with age except possibly during the first few years. Most 100 year old pianos, even from the best makers, require major work and perhaps a complete rebuilding to be in excellent condition.
Originally Posted by Fareham
Further, the make of piano says more about the way that the piano was built than what it is going to sound like, and a competent technician can transform an instrument from brilliant to soft (or vice versa).
I think most people feel that there is only a modest range of transformation in either direction without adversely affecting the tone. It is usually not a good idea to buy a piano with the hope or expectation that a technician can radically change the tone.

Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758836 08/16/18 08:47 AM
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Quote
With the exception of Steinway, all pianos are money-pits, and their value drops like a stone once you get them home from the dealer - just like a car.


Evidence?

If a Steinway costs 90K and depreciates by 30% once you get it home, that's a 27K loss.

If a Grotrian or Shigeru costs 55K and depreciates by 40% that's a 22K loss.

Which is a money pit?

All pianos require similar upkeep. As an economic "investment" they're all lousy, Steinway included (because of the premium you have to pay to get one).

Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Piano*Dad #2758840 08/16/18 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
The depreciation on Steinways is almost as much as other pianos

+1.

Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
As an economic "investment" they're all lousy, Steinway included (because of the premium you have to pay to get one).

+1.

Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758880 08/16/18 11:08 AM
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The one type of piano that will hold the greatest percentage value is a well rebuilt Steinway or Mason Hamlin grand that plays and sounds wonderful. (Not all rebuilds are done well so due dilligence is especially required). One can buy retail a black rebuilt B for around $50K, with a warranty in many cases, and if you needed to sell it on the private market you could get at least $40K if you are patient.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
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Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Carey #2758888 08/16/18 11:43 AM
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Oops shows how good my reading comprehension is these days! I will chime in on the latest digression in RE: pianos and Steinway as an investment. As said above pianos are like cars. They are not an appreciable asset; few instruments are. Buy it because your son loves to play, not because you want it to grow in value. I got my Steinway for an obscene discount and it's STILL probably worth less than I paid for it only four years ago. I wish S&S would stop trotting out those brochures and hype about the piano appreciating just because of their annual price hike. It's BS and really unbecoming of such a celebrated brand.


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758915 08/16/18 01:03 PM
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Kate Kate my experience is pianos vary wildly from instrument to instrument. I've performed or practiced on dozens of Steinway pianos ranging from baby grand to semi-concert grand to concert grand. Some have been the absolute worst pianos possible and 1 (one) was the best possible. Most are simply OK, neither great nor horrible.

I suggest you search for a piano, not a brand. Meaning you have some pieces to test the tone and playability of each instrument. Pianos truly are individuals.


With new students Chopin was chiefly anxious to do away with any stiffness in, or cramped, or convulsive movement of the hand, thereby obtaining the first requisite of fine technique "souplesse" (suppleness). -- Carl Mikuli on Chopin the teacher.
Re: What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?
Dlrudals #2758920 08/16/18 01:27 PM
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A great piano is a good piano that just needs regulation and voicing. Make sure you contact the dealer before you visit and nail down a few of his inventory that might be of interest to you. Ask that the pianos be serviced before you arrive. That way you will have a better idea of what they are really like.


Sally Phillips
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Columbus, GA
New Steinway, Boston and Essex pianos
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http://www.pianobuyer.com/current-issue/07a-should-i-have-my-piano-rebuilt.html
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