Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum What brand would you prefer if you have &45,000 budget?

Hello.
I currently have Kawai upright. Since my son is really speeding up in his learning and now preparing for the competition I have decided to buy grand piano with a budget maximum $45,000.
My son loves piano with mellow sound.
My house is 4,000 sqft 10’ ceiling. Piano will be in the formal dining room which is open to living room and kitchen.
Dining room is 15 x 20 and living room is 40 x 20 and there is kitchen. So area is 1100sf + kitchen area.

In local dealer carries Mason and hamlin, estonia, schimmel, kawai. And of course there is a steinway dealer but I cannot afford it.
Can anyone help me with a SIZE, brand/ model, buying price and etc?
Of course He will play first to listen to the sound but I thought it is better to have some info before we go to the store.
I googled and estonia 210 maybe a good choice.
I am not sure it is a good size or a brand worthy buying.
Please help~! Thank you!

For that price or a little bit more, you can find Model B or A Steinways in very like new condition. Are there any rebuilders in your area? If you find one who has been in business for a few decades, they may have customers aging out of piano ownership. You should still have your own piano technician inspect any good prospects for an independent opinion.

Do check out your Steinway dealer. They have new Boston's in that range and they may have a pre owned Steinway. They are also familiar with schools that may be selling used Steinways. FYI I am a Steinway dealer.

Check out everything available in your area and decide what you prefer.

... with your son's considered input, of course.

Regards,

Yes, your son's input is an important factor too.

Check out Piano Buyer’s Guide. You can read online for free. Please look at the reviews, ratings and the pricing guides as the ‘sticker’ price is not the ‘sales price’

https://www.pianobuyer.com/

you could certainly find a Mason & Hamlin BB 7' piano totally rebuilt top to bottom for that price.

Will Truitt

Kate
You don’t mention where you live. If you want to share that information you may get more specific help

All the piano makes your dealer sells are very good and offer reasonably good value IMO compared to other high tier pianos. You should also consider Shigeru Kawai which is the top of the Kawai line. You have a very large piano space so chances are very high a 7' piano would not be a problem sound wise. I think the Mason Hamlin, Shigeru Kawai, and Schimmel are slightly higher in price than Estonia and Kawai for a given size.

The first four I mentioned are also rated very highly in the Piano Buyer ratings. I would also look at the Piano Buyer staff picks list.

In the Piano Buyer you can enter a discount from SMP(you need to read the section on piano pricing to understand SMP and discounts) and your maximum budget and then do a search with that criteria.

Once you get beyond inflated sticker prices posted on pianos at most places, your 45K budget puts an awful lot of pianos in your economic reach. Take your time. Don't be rushed by anyone.

How old is your son? When mine was 12, we traveled from North Carolina to New York looking at pianos. That was a lot of fun! You are not restricted to your narrow geographical location.

You didn't specify what style your son plays. Classical, Jazz, pop ? I'd look for the latest model and lightly played Yamaha C7 or C6 I could find used. I don't see a lot of the CX pianos for sale. But if you come across one, those would be excellent.

More rare but an older Yamaha S6. I sold my '97 S6 in 2006 for 30K.

You mentioned several brands you CAN afford. I would shop among them and them only comparing the various models very carefully. Compare especially on their respective 'cost' - this is where you will realize your best 'net gain' In the end. A clear winner will most likely emerge making your choice easy. You can also compare pianos by specs but the first thing is that you will have to like ["love"] your piano personally.
Good luck!

Norbert

I would get a good, big used German tier 1. Bechstein, Bluthner or Grotrian Steinweg.

Shopping by tier position only [mostly..] can be a disappointing experience.
It's totally common - and many here may attest to this - to fall in a love with a "lower rated" brand. Besides a used piano can and often has other issues. Just because there's a certain fall board on the piano, it doesn't give you any assurance,regardless of 'tier'. Besides Bechstein, Bluethner and Grotrian are often pianos with entirely different character.

Compare mostly on "price" and see which $ 500,000 condo suits you best! New or 'used' if like. It may take more discipline & diligence but the rewards are higher!

Norbert

Already have a wonderful Steinway C. So, with 45K$, I'll go get the upright of my dream: a Steingraeber & Sohn K138 with SMF action. It's really the king of uprights.

I live in Chandler, AZ.

My son is 8 years old playing classical music, currently learning chopin etude and Berkovich paganini. He loves playing hour and hours, has very sensitive/ good ear. He wants to have piano with a mellow tone. Our current kawai upright has buzzing sound comes and goes. He call this piano sound as ear hurting sound in high note and rusty in low note. 😞 eventhough he has good ear and know what he wants, I personally doubt if he can choose or know what he really likes because he is so young. That is why I considered a brand first.
And I don’t know anything about used/ rebuilt piano, I haven’t considered buying one.
Hope this answers some of your questions.

While you’re checking out new pianos you may still want to get a piano technician to come in to eliminate the buzzing sound and do some voicing to make your Kawai upright more mellow. It could make a lot of difference on how your piano sounds.

Rich

Kate, your budget allows you many options for very good pianos, and with that magnitude of investment, expanding your search area could also benefit you. prices on pianos vary enough that the cost of transporting them is sometimes no greater than the selling price difference. finding a piano you and your son love and want to live with for twenty years might be worth the investment of extended time and effort to find the right piano, but that is different for every consumer of course.

went to our largest local dealer yesterday and there were two full size grands in that price range, side by side. used, very good condition, everything original to the pianos, both about thirty years old. the older steinway model A (around 74 in. long)had a sticker close to $50 k. ; the boesendorfer model 200 (cm. or a few inches longer than the model A) was in slightly better cosmetic condition than the steinway, could pass as barely used, and was about $ 6 k. less than the steinway. my personal choice would have been the cheaper boesendorfer, in every way, sound, touch, appearance. [the list price of the boesendorfer brand new is about $ 140 k, with used prices around the same range as the one at my local dealer]. your son might have chosen differently of course, but you thoroughly sorting your options can only help you feel secure in whatever you decide on. it sounds like that is your plan ; enjoy the quest and buona fortuna.

There are so many options for you, and so many good suggestions here already. What I would do in your situation is make friends with a good technician - somebody who really understands good instruments (Sally Philips for instance, although she has a Steinway bias as a dealer, she really knows her stuff when it comes to pianos - and Steinways are beautifully made instruments).

That way, you may find that you know of instruments in your area coming up for sale. Recently on Living Pianos there was a Blüthner Model 2, 7'11, made new in the year 2000, finished in Bubinga, and he was asking $47,000 or thereabouts. The piano had been virtually unplayed and so was in as close to new condition as you could find. While at that price it's not exactly a steal, it's certainly as much piano as anybody needs, and it was a substantial saving over the equivalent new piano by a long shot. That's not to say that a Blüthner model 2 would be the right piano for you, but you may find similar situations with Steinways, Bösendorfers, Faziolis, Yamahas, Shigeru Kawai....

In the new price range I'm not sure what you can get since pianos in the USA are a lot more expensive than in the UK. But just so you know, I was in Vienna recently and I went to see Stingl Klavier since I may do a concert for them next year. They sell Fazioli, the full Kawai range, Grotrian, Ronisch, and their own brand Stingl which they make to order in Vienna.

I played a Kawai GL-50, a GX-3, a GX-5, and a Shigeru SK6. I found the Shigeru to be absolutely beautiful, the highest quality, not quite a match for the Fazioli, but a beautiful piano in its own right. The GX pianos I found to be beautiful instruments more than adequate for any pianist to practice on. They didn't have quite the same range as the Shigeru in terms of colours available to the pianist, but then I don't know of any young pianist who would require that anyway, regardless of whether they are playing the Liszt etudes at 15 or not. The GL-50 was clearly a step below the GX series, but was still a most excellent piano. It was clear and singing, but with warmth, and it had a beautiful even touch. It would be a great piano in any practice situation where the highest levels of artistry were not so important but the need for a solid reliable piano with a pleasing tone was paramount.

I know there are some good Chinese pianos available now, but to be honest I don't know that end of the market well at all anymore.

Kate as a footnote to the information joe80 kindly provided you, the better chinese-built pianos are almost never sold under an 'asian sounding' name, Hailun the main exception. chinese(and Indonesian - - both of Yamaha and Kawai sell pianos under their brands made in Indonesia, and Boston/sold by steinway is made by Kawai) - built pianos include some lines of Schimmel and Seiler , virtually all of the Baldwin grands made now, Ritmueller, Perzina and others.

Used Steinway A or Mason Hamlin BB

If you want to save some pennies as said above used Yamaha

Save a bit more and still have agreat piano Halun 218 or Brodmann 212

Way to be a supermom by the way!

If you find a Registered Piano Tecnician whose opinion you trust I would definitely include used and rebuilt pianos in your search. I found a fully rebuilt Mason & Hamlin BB which is the 7’ model at much less than your 45K budget.

A rebuilt piano can be considered practically “good as new” but at a greater value for your dollar.

Read the Piano Buyer online. It goes into how to evaluate a used piano. After reading it, I felt confident looking at my rebuilt piano. I have never regretted my decision to buy rebuilt.

The newer Masons I have recently played don't resemble their predecessors at all. I wouldn't own one over a late model Yamaha C6 or a comparable Kawai. An older rebuilt M&H BB could be an option but I would have either a Pro player (could be hired), his teacher or an outside tech (not the builder) sign off on it.

Yamaha C7/6 is always a sure bet if you can't get a Steinway. And don't let anyone say they are too bright. A skilled tech can bring out a beautiful singing mellow tone in either of those pianos - as long as the hammers are in good shape and it hasn't been pounded on or it came from a rock recording studio. That's why I said a late model.

In Chandler - might be too much piano for you though.
https://www.pianomart.com/buy-a-piano/view?id=28938

But in any case 45K is a great budget. What a lucky boy.

Kate Kate -

I live in Phoenix and have purchased three pianos (a baby grand, an upright, and a digital) from the local dealer you mention above. I've also purchased two pianos from what is now our area's authorized Steinway dealer.

I am also a former piano teacher, and would be more than happy to offer some insights to help you with your search.

The Estonia 210 would be an excellent choice - in terms of cost, size and quality. I've played the 210 in the dealer's showroom and it is a wonderful instrument. The smaller Estonia 190 would also serve your son's needs.

The important thing is to do your research (i.e., read the piano buyer's guide) - and not rush the decision-making process.

Please feel free to send me a Private Message.

Carey (Phil)

This would be one possibility for a really awesome piano. Love those old Mason & Hamlin grands and a well rebuilt one would be hard to beat.

I'm also kind of a sucker for a similar sized Baldwin, well rebuilt if it's an older one. Very sweet and warm sound.

But hey, everybody has their "sweet spot" and we're not all the same. For some, a sound more like the Yamaha or Kawai might be more appealing. Whatever your flavor, you should be able to find something you like with that kind of budget. Go play a bunch of them. Try out ones that you're not familiar with even. Never know, there might be a specific piano that speaks to you.

Good luck!

Dunno how old your son is, but I can only assume you'll include him in this selection process if he's going to be the primary player.

If you'd like to try a used Yamaha S6, as Dave Ferris suggested, there's one at Stilwell Pianos in Mesa, Az.. I've never done business with them but the owner was very honest and helpful with me on the phone.

The OP told us her son is 8 years old.

Hi Kate,

With the exception of Steinway, all pianos are money-pits, and their value drops like a stone once you get them home from the dealer - just like a car. This means that used pianos are hugely better value than new ones, and unlike cars, most people think that they improve with age as their mechanicals settle down. Not only that, the shoddiest pianos have a life of at least 30 years and the best are still going 100+ years on.

If you're prepared to look at used pianos (and why not?) you will find huge numbers which have hardly been played - perhaps half - as learners discovered that their aspirations out-stripped their ability and dedication to learning the instrument. Further, the make of piano says more about the way that the piano was built than what it is going to sound like, and a competent technician can transform an instrument from brilliant to soft (or vice versa). That said, you will find that Bluthners are generally the softest and most muted all the way to Yamahas, which I find shrill. So pianos are unlike cars and much more like people, with each one having its own particular character.

As your lad is only 8 and still growing, I'd follow the advice above and get a really good technician to spend a day tidying up your Kawai (which is a very fine make), regulating it and voicing it how your son likes. It will be an education for him and considerably cheaper than buying a new grand piano. He's obviously making good progress and a move to a grand piano is definitely on the cards - but having had 2 of my 3 daughters learn the piano, I have seen how other distractions that come with growing up, can get in the way.

When you make the move to a grand, take your time and look at dozens of pianos until you have a much clearer idea of which ones appeal. The piano you want to buy is the one which you just want to keep on playing. Only then look at the name on the fall board, and I'll bet you it'll be one of the splendid makes people have described above.

If new, a Shigeru Kawai.

You will get as many brand preferences as you get responses; thank goodness, or there would be a shortage if we all liked the same one. Please take Carey up on his generous offer to help; he lives near you and can provide experienced advice regarding the options you have.

The depreciation on Steinways is almost as much as other pianos, at least in the U.S. I also don't think most people think pianos improve with age except possibly during the first few years. Most 100 year old pianos, even from the best makers, require major work and perhaps a complete rebuilding to be in excellent condition.
I think most people feel that there is only a modest range of transformation in either direction without adversely affecting the tone. It is usually not a good idea to buy a piano with the hope or expectation that a technician can radically change the tone.

Evidence?

If a Steinway costs 90K and depreciates by 30% once you get it home, that's a 27K loss.

If a Grotrian or Shigeru costs 55K and depreciates by 40% that's a 22K loss.

Which is a money pit?

All pianos require similar upkeep. As an economic "investment" they're all lousy, Steinway included (because of the premium you have to pay to get one).

+1.


+1.

The one type of piano that will hold the greatest percentage value is a well rebuilt Steinway or Mason Hamlin grand that plays and sounds wonderful. (Not all rebuilds are done well so due dilligence is especially required). One can buy retail a black rebuilt B for around $50K, with a warranty in many cases, and if you needed to sell it on the private market you could get at least $40K if you are patient.

Oops shows how good my reading comprehension is these days! I will chime in on the latest digression in RE: pianos and Steinway as an investment. As said above pianos are like cars. They are not an appreciable asset; few instruments are. Buy it because your son loves to play, not because you want it to grow in value. I got my Steinway for an obscene discount and it's STILL probably worth less than I paid for it only four years ago. I wish S&S would stop trotting out those brochures and hype about the piano appreciating just because of their annual price hike. It's BS and really unbecoming of such a celebrated brand.

Kate Kate my experience is pianos vary wildly from instrument to instrument. I've performed or practiced on dozens of Steinway pianos ranging from baby grand to semi-concert grand to concert grand. Some have been the absolute worst pianos possible and 1 (one) was the best possible. Most are simply OK, neither great nor horrible.

I suggest you search for a piano, not a brand. Meaning you have some pieces to test the tone and playability of each instrument. Pianos truly are individuals.

A great piano is a good piano that just needs regulation and voicing. Make sure you contact the dealer before you visit and nail down a few of his inventory that might be of interest to you. Ask that the pianos be serviced before you arrive. That way you will have a better idea of what they are really like.

Rick Jones at rickjonespianos.com has a really nice Yamaha C7 and a phenomenal Steinway L that both would fall into your budget delivered and set up in your home. https://rickjonespianos.com/product/steinway-l-ebony-1956/ or https://rickjonespianos.com/product/yamaha-c7-ebony-1981/ I know Rick and he really prepares his pianos. Both of these would be lifelong instruments for you and your son. If I were you I'd really look close at that Steinway.

Rick Jones certainly has an excellent reputation, and while the prices seem quite fair, both of these pianos (based on the videos) sound a tad strident to me. Per the OP, her son prefers a mellow sound. Also - I would never encourage anyone to purchase a piano without auditioning it beforehand. I'm not sure the OP would be willing to travel over 2,000 miles to do so.

Kate kate - are you still with us??

If a particular product really appreciated, as claimed by some manufacturers, why would they try to sell them? Better to hang on to them and take the increase in value.

Wow. So many response in 2 days.
I truly appreciate all of your suggestions! 👍🙂🙂
I was surprised most of you recommended used/rebuilt piano over a new one. I never thought buying a used piano but this forum completely changed my decision.
In the local steinway dealer’s website, I found 3 steinway modelB. I don’t know the history, price or anything.yet. I will definately check them out. And There is a 2003 7’ Bosendorfer cs214 and asking price is around $65,000. It says I can Luckily my son’s piano teacher said he will go check there and see the touch, tone etc and another local store which sells new piano for us.

Another question is $65,000 bosendorfer, It says “make an offer”. So If we really luke it, how much is the reasonable price to offer in case of cash purchase? (Hoping there is more discount in cash purchase?) I don’t want to upset the owner with a low offfer.

As you can see, there are pros and cons to both buying used and new. When buying new, there's the break in or seasoning period when the action settles in and the tone of the piano develops over time, but you have the warranty and the backing of the dealer on your side. You know the history of the piano, pretty much like a brand new car.

With used, you can definitely get a larger and often higher-quality grand for the same money, but you really have to protect yourself by making sure you're dealing with a reputable person and having it inspected by a trained technician before purchasing to make sure you aren't getting someone else's problem. And then if a piano is newly rebuilt, you may have the same break in period. In many cases, when buying used it can definitely be a buyer's market.

The key is to do your research and shop around before making a decision. The great thing for you is that you have a very nice budget to work with with lends you many options from all angles. The challenge is the often there are no straight-forward, cut-and-dry answers to these kinds of questions regarding pianos. When giving advice, we often have to talk in generalities and just point potential buyers in the right direction.

Thank you Carey for your offer in previous post. It was very nice of you.
And I really liked your piano play - Scriabin etude. 👍 It was beautiful.

Many on this forum already gave you many valuable ideas. I own one (bought) new and one rebuilt pianos, and I can testify that both have their merits in addition to each piano's inherent musical differences.

For the brands of new pianos you mentioned in the original post, I haven't tried all of them but you won't go wrong with any. For different reasons I like Estonia Yamaha, Shigeru Kawai, and Boston. It's down to your (and your child's) preference.

Specifically regarding the Bosendorfer: this is purely anecdote from me: Back in late 2016 on PianoMart website, there was a Bosendorfer 214 CS listed. It was made in 2014, bought new by the seller. The piano also has a Dampp-Chaser installed from day 1. An RPT was helping her to sell (and I verified the RPT's name on PTG's website), and I contacted the RPT with a couple of emails. It was listed less than $60000. Unfortunately I didn't have immediate fund ready for it (and I would have to sell my previous Yamaha first since this would be private sale). I also didn't get to try it (about one hour of drive from where I am). It was delisted very quickly that I suspected it was sold because the price was right.

As far as what to offer on the $65,000 Bosendorfer, Try offering a LOT less, maybe $35,000 - $40,000 and see if they blink. You never know. Our church bought a spectacular 9' Kawai grand from a store that was going out of business. At that time that piano was probably selling for around $30,000 but since the store was closing and there is a limited market for 9' concert grand pianos, they accepted our offer of $10,000. I recently bought a Mason and Hamlin AA used, the asking price was $9600. I knew the lady selling it was moving so I offered her only $2000. She said no at first but when moving day was three days away she called and accepted my offer. You never know. Try watching a few episodes of Pawn Stars before you make the offer. It will give you some courage. The Old Man is an especially tough negotiator. Rick is kind of a pushover, lol!

If a maker doesn't sell their pianos, how would they pay for their manufacturing costs? How long would you suggest they hang on to them? I think that according to your logic the answer would be never!

Kate - Don't worry about upsetting the owner. He can take it - and may be willing to negotiate - or not. That Bosie has been featured on their website for a LONG time, so you may be able to get the price down a bit - but given the age and model the $65K asking price is reasonable. . Hopefully your son's teacher will audition the Steinway B's and the Yamaha C7 on the floor as well. Also - you really don't need to spend as much as $60K to get a fine piano for your son. I would strongly encourage you to visit the top three local dealers before making any final decisions. And remember - if you purchase a NEW piano, you will have the benefit of the manufacturer's warranty. Please feel free to PM me with any questions. Glad you liked the Scriabin !!

.

Considering the Old Man has passed on, he must be a tough negotiator...

One thing for certain, with that much of a cash budget you should get something really good if you take your time you should get something really special.

I'd suggest that you get a handle on what you really want, and how much you want to spend. You're going from a poorly maintained upright to a 45k grand and now apparently considering 65k grands.

As others have suggested: no need to rush, and get your Kawai serviced so that it's more pleasant to your son's ear. For the record, even a 65k piano will start to sound bad if you neglect its maintenance.

You can get quite a nice piano--new or used--for well under your 45k budget. The law of diminishing returns is in effect here.

Careful shopping and decision making can result in a lower expenditure than you'd "lose" on a more expensive piano (if potential resale is of concern to you).

Excellent advice !!

Thank you all. 👍😍
I will update how it goes~~!

BTW the op was asking what we would do. I haven't read through all the posts, but as to what YOU should consider, you could do far worse than stick with Kawai.

I would take his piano teacher with you .If he is playing Chopin Etudes at 8 he must be talented. How talented we here don't know .If his teacher thinks major talent , and it doesn't break the bank an Estonia could be the answer or Schimmel grand .Otherwise a regular Kawai grand .If he still really wants a piano with a more creative tone you perhaps need a good German upright like a Sauter .I do not know if you get them where you are .I do not know Mason and Hamlin but have heard they are very good .Some of these urights mentioned can be quite expensive as well.Best wishes on your search .

Hi all!
I have decided to fix the buzzing sound first like some of you recommended while I searching for grand piano.(I will have enough time to search, though.) The reason I was kind of rushing was we are moving to new house in September and I thought it maybe better to sell and buy piano when we move to save delivery, tuning fee. 😋 Bad idea???

Anyway, I found local dealer who is closing soon and they are advertising for the great discount. I called them today, there is only one used 2007 steinway B(they say it is like new, asking price is $75,000) as well as new steinway($10,6000 or something). Both are way over my budget so There is no point to go check.

Piano teacher actually loved the idea to change to grand piano. Because he said it has different touch, action. and my son is getting “serious” in learning, playing it and lo~~~~ves his teacher’s one of grand piano so much.
Teacher already checked one local dealer and he liked shigeru kawai. Regular(?) Kawai rx6 will be ready to play in 2 weeks so he said he has to go back later again to check it. Other piano like schimmel, it was not his first choice.
I will go check shigeru kawai sk6($65,000 asking price and will give full credit for upright kawai which I paid around $6,200 2 years ago.).
I am hoping that I can get more discount close to my budget with a trade in full credit upright and a cash offer. Maybe I am dreaming for unrealistical price? I will let you know again if anyone is wondering how it goes.
Thank you again!

With that budget, before you buy, try a new Mason & Hamlin and see what you think.

Kate Kate -

I've sent you a LONG private message. Please let me know if you don't receive it.

If you are not going to sell your piano I would not worry about it going down in value. This level of piano may be your sons piano for 20 years or more. I bought a new Yamaha YUS 5, because I consider this my lifetime piano, I wanted a new one. I probably could have bought a nicer used piano, but I really wanted a new one. I am now on my 5th year of lessons and never regret the new piano, I got what I wanted and was not concerned if it drops in value because I am not going to sell it.

The piano teacher suggested a grand for the OP .Perhaps a GX or GL would suit if a Kawai Shigeru is not possible.

Kate, if you like the Shigeru Kawai but can’t or don’t want to pay the price for a new one consider getting a used one. Actually that goes for any brand of piano. I recently bought a Shigeru Kawai SK7 that was 10 years old but looked practically new and saved a considerable amount over buying new. There are many used pianos out there that are barely used for sale which would allow you to get more piano (think size, quality or both) for far less than a new piano.