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Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2755937
08/04/18 01:22 PM
08/04/18 01:22 PM
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Agent88 Offline
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Originally Posted by myPianoOpinion
Post 2/2

Determining price most confusing
I have saw links for pianos sold on that auction site for 2-3000 $
On the other hand there is the same maker as mine, not restored for 40000$.
1845
Lets say, it can be advertise even for million but it will never be sold.

But, other websites selling antique pianos have the same price range, even higher.
All pianos from 1850-1860 era are 70.000$. Not just advertised, sold for that amounts.
I took this one as example, because it have SOLD prices.
Other Antique


I went to your link and did not see the prices actually paid. It looks like they list an asking price and then indicate whether or not it has been sold. I don't know how they do things but it is not unknown for businesses to list a high price and then actually sell it at an 80% discount. It gives the buyer a sense of getting an incredible deal, apparently.

Recently, I believe it was Phillip in China who posted some auction results for some antique pianos. They looked, in the pictures anyway, to be in great condition. IIRC they sold for $2,000-$3,000. And may have been part of a collection.

Everything I've read suggests piano repair, rebuilding, reconditioning, whatever you want to call it, is VERY expensive to have done correctly. Hence why it is usually reserved for the most expensive brands and models. Or for pianos with great personal sentimental value.

And my impression -- based only on the fact I read a lot and have a long memory -- is that one can take an old antique piano, sink tens of thousands of dollars into it to bring it back to good condition, and then sell it for a profit as a private party, is pure fantasy.

I agree with the assessment above that many of these older pianos with nice cases are not being sold to be played but, rather, to be used as furniture. Amd perhaps one business has created a market where people looking for furniture perceive a value someone looking for a player would not. And I don't think we know what they actually sell for. Perhaps try buying one. And if you had one in literally the exact condition they would sell it for my guess is they would pay you no more than 50% of that amount. Less based on actual condition.

So why not call them and tell them you may be interested in selling them your piano. You can come back and tell us all about it. Maybe they'll offer you $50,000 or more! But don't brag about it until you have cash in hand.

If I'm remembering correctly businesses that restore old Steinways buy the "cores" they use for very, very, little. It's they only way they can make a living doing it. And the market for old Steinways is probably the strongest old piano market in the world.

Ultimately the market value is what buyers are willing to pay. Which, with rare items that sell in very limited numbers, one often can't determine until the item actually sells. Auction houses that specialize in such items often have the data to make an educated guess. But are often wrong. And you won't know how the condition of the sold items compared to yours unless you had an expert examine them before they sold.

So reach for the stars and ask any price you like. The market will tell you if you're off base.

Good luck in your efforts.

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Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: Agent88] #2755946
08/04/18 01:46 PM
08/04/18 01:46 PM
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Late edit:
Reading the whole thread I see David G posted the Colt Collection auction results. Phillip may have brought the auction to our attention a few weeks ago.

Finally, I think some people are under the impression lots of people are out there making a killing in the piano restoration business. There are many people in this business who participate on this forum. Some even chimed in on the Petrof thread.

Originally Posted by Agent88

Originally Posted by myPianoOpinion
Post 2/2

Determining price most confusing
I have saw links for pianos sold on that auction site for 2-3000 $
On the other hand there is the same maker as mine, not restored for 40000$.
1845
Lets say, it can be advertise even for million but it will never be sold.

But, other websites selling antique pianos have the same price range, even higher.
All pianos from 1850-1860 era are 70.000$. Not just advertised, sold for that amounts.
I took this one as example, because it have SOLD prices.
Other Antique


I went to your link and did not see the prices actually paid. It looks like they list an asking price and then indicate whether or not it has been sold. I don't know how they do things but it is not unknown for businesses to list a high price and then actually sell it at an 80% discount. It gives the buyer a sense of getting an incredible deal, apparently.

Recently, I believe it was Phillip in China who posted some auction results for some antique pianos. They looked, in the pictures anyway, to be in great condition. IIRC they sold for $2,000-$3,000. And may have been part of a collection.

Everything I've read suggests piano repair, rebuilding, reconditioning, whatever you want to call it, is VERY expensive to have done correctly. Hence why it is usually reserved for the most expensive brands and models. Or for pianos with great personal sentimental value.

And my impression -- based only on the fact I read a lot and have a long memory -- is that one can take an old antique piano, sink tens of thousands of dollars into it to bring it back to good condition, and then sell it for a profit as a private party, is pure fantasy.

I agree with the assessment above that many of these older pianos with nice cases are not being sold to be played but, rather, to be used as furniture. Amd perhaps one business has created a market where people looking for furniture perceive a value someone looking for a player would not. And I don't think we know what they actually sell for. Perhaps try buying one. And if you had one in literally the exact condition they would sell it for my guess is they would pay you no more than 50% of that amount. Less based on actual condition.

So why not call them and tell them you may be interested in selling them your piano. You can come back and tell us all about it. Maybe they'll offer you $50,000 or more! But don't brag about it until you have cash in hand.

If I'm remembering correctly businesses that restore old Steinways buy the "cores" they use for very, very, little. It's they only way they can make a living doing it. And the market for old Steinways is probably the strongest old piano market in the world.

Ultimately the market value is what buyers are willing to pay. Which, with rare items that sell in very limited numbers, one often can't determine until the item actually sells. Auction houses that specialize in such items often have the data to make an educated guess. But are often wrong. And you won't know how the condition of the sold items compared to yours unless you had an expert examine them before they sold.

So reach for the stars and ask any price you like. The market will tell you if you're off base.

Good luck in your efforts.

Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2755947
08/04/18 01:46 PM
08/04/18 01:46 PM
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I buy and sell a lot of stuff and sell quite a bit on ebay. What I have learned over the years is that it's ALWAYS the price. I can list something at any price I want but until I make the price in the market range it won't sell - period. I recently sold a rare antique whiskey jug. I started out asking $600 for it but ended up taking $350. The market wouldn't support the $600 price tag but I had two offers to buy when I lowered the price to $350. It's always what the market will bear. I've also listed stuff on ebay that sold incredibly quickly and thought to myself that I could have asked more.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2756026
08/05/18 12:38 AM
08/05/18 12:38 AM
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I would think your best bet is to put it on ebay with a modest price tag. You might get someone who simply wants an unusual item of beauty who would be willing to buy.

With such a piano it is the same old, old story. Even if you take the piano as having cost nothing, the cost of rebuilding will be far greater than the subsequent value as a playing piano.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2756034
08/05/18 02:22 AM
08/05/18 02:22 AM
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Pianolance, I really don't want to argue with you anymore because you are not reading my posts but have some strange interpretations of it. I wasn't talking about the restoration at all and I didn't suggest to give them to restore the piano. The page is just a good example of the prices on the antique market. Most importantly, I mentioned refinishing and not restoration - how hard is for you to understand that?
His piano is in a much better condition than mine, and don't need the restoration - maybe some refinishing, tuning, and it's good to go.

Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2756036
08/05/18 02:32 AM
08/05/18 02:32 AM
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@PianoOpinion

I think you have some piano experts in Serbia, there is no need to give your piano overseas to restore it or refinished it because it would be too expensive.
Maybe this one - CLICK ?
However, it probably needs just a tuning. Wish you luck! thumb

To try to sell piano on eBay is not a good idea unless you don't have an eBay account for years and you are already very successful seller. Otherwise, they will put you on a listing limit which means you can't put the bigger price than 200 - 300 $. You could try with an auction on eBay but your limit would be the same.

Last edited by Galjinocka; 08/05/18 02:40 AM.
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2756040
08/05/18 03:35 AM
08/05/18 03:35 AM
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@PianoOpinion

I can't edit my previous post anymore, so it's the second page laugh

I tried to sell recently (about two weeks ago) my piano on eBay at first. I have eBay account for years but I'm only buying, never try to sell anything before. The piano was my first "item" I tried to sell and I didn't have a clue about the "limits". I finished my add and try to put the price (I put 2000$) but they didn't let me put the price - then I found out about the famous limits. It would take months or years until they actually would let me seel piano and I really have no any intention to become an eBay seller just because of one thing I want to sell it. Then it came to me why are the prices for the pianos on eBay are so cheap - unless, as I already mentioned, you are not their experienced seller already (and most of the people who would like to sell the piano usually are not). That's why the eBay is the worst place because it's absolutely unrealistic with the prices and you can't sell your piano actually.
I'm suggesting the best page (at least the best one I could find for now) where private owners and professionals as well selling pianos of all kind exclusively. There are the sellers from Germany, Austria, France, Slovenia, Poland, the US, etc. The page is originally from Poland but obviously well known on the piano market. Really good and useful page, they even have the transport calculator and the list of professionals for transport including the prices, and also very important - nobody will scream and yale at you because you ask higher than 100$. Klaviano.com


Last edited by Galjinocka; 08/05/18 03:36 AM.
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2756056
08/05/18 06:33 AM
08/05/18 06:33 AM
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Fareham Offline
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Galjinocka, I believe there are many hundreds of eager piano buyers in Nigeria.

If you place an advert in the Vanguard offering to pay for the flight for people to come and try out your Petrof, I'm sure you will be inundated.


The English may not like music much, but they love the sound it makes ... Beecham
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2756099
08/05/18 10:37 AM
08/05/18 10:37 AM
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Galjinocka Offline
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Fareham, your sarcasm is useless.:) I already have some potential buyers.

Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: Galjinocka] #2756118
08/05/18 01:33 PM
08/05/18 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Galjinocka
Fareham, your sarcasm is useless.:) I already have some potential buyers.


As I mentioned in your other thread by all means report back once you sell it for between 5,000 and 7,000 Euros and have the CASH IN HAND.

Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: Galjinocka] #2756128
08/05/18 02:19 PM
08/05/18 02:19 PM
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Fareham Offline
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Originally Posted by Galjinocka
Fareham, your sarcasm is useless.:) I already have some potential buyers.


Excellent !

Incidentally, the figure of speech I used is probably paradiastole (mixed with a bit of facetiousness). Sarcasm it is not.


The English may not like music much, but they love the sound it makes ... Beecham
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2756142
08/05/18 03:38 PM
08/05/18 03:38 PM
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London
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I do think it is a little unfair on the OP to be discussing Galjinocka's Petrof in this thread.

Can I suggest to MyPianoOpinion that you might contact Marc Widuch at Faszinationklaviere in Munich. He has considerable experience with nineteenth century instruments, including pianos with Viennese actions - for example you will see that at present he has an 1841 Bosendorfer. It is possible that he might be interested in buying your piano - but in any case, I would think that he would be able to give you some useful advice.

Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2756201
08/06/18 01:02 AM
08/06/18 01:02 AM
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Kuwait
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Agreed. It would be a shame to resurrect that thread.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: BDB] #2756265
08/06/18 11:36 AM
08/06/18 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BDB
I looked a little closer at the photos, and find myself wondering why it has square tuning pins, and from that and the range of the piano, I suspect that it is newer than 1847, possibly about 1870. There is probably no way of knowing for certain, though.


I'd guess that the square pins are the result of it having been re-strung in the late 19th/early 20th century. If a full cosmetic restoration was desired, it would be fairly easy to get a blacksmith to knock out an authentic set of flat pins. The hard part would be the action. Unlike a modern piano, you can't just buy a stack from Renner, can you? Is there anybody who knows how to work on these things, and can get or make the parts?


-- J.S.

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Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: David-G] #2756266
08/06/18 11:40 AM
08/06/18 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by David-G
Can I suggest to MyPianoOpinion that you might contact Marc Widuch at Faszinationklaviere in Munich.


Wow, thanks for that link. I guess there *is* someone who can work on these early 19th century instruments.

It really would be interesting to feel the action and hear the sound of the kind of instruments that Beethoven and Chopin had.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: David-G] #2756268
08/06/18 12:02 PM
08/06/18 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by David-G
Can I suggest to MyPianoOpinion that you might contact Marc Widuch at Faszinationklaviere in Munich.

Fascinating site, one of the pianos was played by Liszt, von Bulow, and Brahms. Incredible


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2756533
08/07/18 02:57 PM
08/07/18 02:57 PM
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Plainly to state that the musical value would be zero is too hard and would IMHO only justified from a professional POV but not from a private lover.

If the Bösendorfer brand is thought as 1st class, then please take into account that Schweighofer is second to Bösendorfer i.e. 1B class, not much lesser than a Bosie grand. A lot of people take care of old Schweighofers, I also was tempted to do a test run on a much younger Schweighofer concert grand.

This old one with viennese action is from the time when young pianist Franz Liszt had to learn that his piano show on stage no longer could include two or three concert grands wrecked during his performance....

It depends. If the mechanism is fully OK, if the leather on the hammer heads is quite OK, if the damper mechanism is OK and if the piano can be adjusted, then a lover of old viennense/southern german actions might be happy with the Schweighofer grand.

This leads to the final question. If everything is good with that piano, if it holds the tuning forces, why restore it, why not keep it as it is?


Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2757785
08/12/18 01:30 AM
08/12/18 01:30 AM
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It would take a lot to make that piano sing those Schumann or Brahms melodies again .,but it is still a wonderful instrument and needs a home somewhere .

Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2757786
08/12/18 01:36 AM
08/12/18 01:36 AM
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There are a lot more people who want to say what someone else should do with this piano than people who would actually do anything with it.


Semipro Tech
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2757792
08/12/18 02:49 AM
08/12/18 02:49 AM
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If only there was a Larry Fine from the 19th century he would point us in the right direction.Then perhaps people will stop being nasty to each other .

Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2757807
08/12/18 04:55 AM
08/12/18 04:55 AM
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If it is fully restored just hope it doesn't end up with a plush New York Steinways tone .I know that's not possible .Rather it stays silent . It is a survivor as is the much discussed Petrof .SURVIVOR think on that .

Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2757959
08/12/18 03:59 PM
08/12/18 03:59 PM
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Farhan you can frame what you said however you like . It was nasty actually disgusting.

Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: BDB] #2758046
08/13/18 12:26 AM
08/13/18 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BDB
There are a lot more people who want to say what someone else should do with this piano than people who would actually do anything with it.



True -- Clearly the best idea so far is the link suggested by David-G. I hope the OP follows it up. That would be best for both him and the piano.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: HELP J.M. Schweighofer in Wien piano - serial number 1558 [Re: myPianoOpinion] #2758047
08/13/18 12:28 AM
08/13/18 12:28 AM
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This wonderful piano has a buyer somewhere .,collector ,museum ,perhaps a display item in a piano store .Please let us hear what it sounds like when you are ready .I feel sure you can get more for it than suggested . I am sorry about some of strange things that have been said here but I am sure everyone wishes you good luck with finding the right buyer .I am not a piano expert ,just a retired music teacher however .

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