Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
160 registered members (Audetto, AnthonyPaulO, anamnesis, agraffe, AssociateX, AZNpiano, Akaitsuki, Alex_G, 39 invisible), 1,129 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: TheLoneliestMonk] #2757963
08/12/18 05:07 PM
08/12/18 05:07 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,251
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Rich Galassini  Offline
Platinum Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,251
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Deleted Post

Last edited by Rich Galassini; 08/12/18 05:08 PM. Reason: I do not want to add to the rumor mill

Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: Roy123] #2757966
08/12/18 05:27 PM
08/12/18 05:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 621
New Hampshire
W
WilliamTruitt Offline
500 Post Club Member
WilliamTruitt  Offline
500 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 621
New Hampshire
Well put, Roy 123. The kinds of improvements in the precision, efficiency and quality have been made by many other high end builders in Europe, while Steinway has changed much more slowly. That said, the last stages of the finest craftsmanship seem to lie with the hands, eyes, and ears of highly trained craftpersons for any truly quality piano.

Steinway markets the hand crafted piano as part of their schtick, and they have been very successful at that. The reality for all piano makers is that all pianos are necessarily very much a product of the industrial age, howsoever evolved the machinery may be.

BDB, you claim that those who claim to improve the touch, tone, and consistency of pianos are engaging in marketing hype, yet you offer no evidence or proof for your claim, so is your claim hype? Further, I know that you regulate and voice pianos. If you are not improving the touch, tone, and consistency of the piano you are working on, what is the point of your being there?

I don't believe that you have ever seen or heard Ed McMorrow's pianos, or seen his technology. Let's hear some evidence that he is wrong. Just the facts, man.

Will Truitt


fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: Rich Galassini] #2757972
08/12/18 06:30 PM
08/12/18 06:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,776
The Heart of Screenland
K
KurtZ Offline
1000 Post Club Member
KurtZ  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,776
The Heart of Screenland
I think Yamaha wanted a part of the "Euro voiced" piano market and buying Bosendorfer was more expedient than developing a market for a new line of pianos that most people would dismiss as "Just another Japanese piano." Bosendorfer was instant cred.

As far as the main part of the thread, I don't give a flip what happens to Steinway. I'd be sadder to hear that Walter's was going under.

Kurt


**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2757978
08/12/18 07:13 PM
08/12/18 07:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,104
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,104
Oakland
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Well BDB I make more than a claim to this. I have the pianos. Would love to have you come see them and we could talk.

I have pianos as well. So you could come and try mine. Of course, they are not consistent, because I do not want them to be. If all pianos are supposed to sound, last, and play the same, then what is the point of making more than one model of piano? In my case, they are so different that someone can come in, try them, and know immediately which one is preferred , and that tells me what to do with their piano.

Which just goes to show that standards are not a good idea. Different people have different tastes.


Semipro Tech
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: Rich Galassini] #2757996
08/12/18 08:11 PM
08/12/18 08:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 306
Maryland, USA
D
Davdoc Offline
Full Member
Davdoc  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 306
Maryland, USA
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by Davdoc

With that said, on some photos in Taiwan that my friends showed me, I did actually spot NY Steinways, including surprisingly old/restored ones.


Some years ago we rebuilt a number of Steinway grands over a few years for an importer in Taiwan. It looked like the work could expand, but then it just stopped.

I wonder if you saw one of our pianos. It is possible.




Hi Rich,

(I am quite OT here)

It is likely. I didn't see those pianos in person. One was in a small venue where my friends' kid had his student recital. It was an apparent NY model, likely an M, and looked not very recent. The tone was good.

The other one was actually a white one; it has the characteristic brass plate on the pedal lyre, square cheeks, etc. of a NY Steinway. But that one looked new; I don't think the owner himself knows much about piano/music, but he has the means to purchase two Steinways for his kids. The white one was likely more for the decor of the room it sits in. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that he asked the dealer to find him a white one, and they found a readily available NY one to fit his need.


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: BDB] #2758001
08/12/18 08:36 PM
08/12/18 08:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,635
Hobart, Australia
A
ando Offline
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,635
Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by BDB
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
Well BDB I make more than a claim to this. I have the pianos. Would love to have you come see them and we could talk.

I have pianos as well. So you could come and try mine. Of course, they are not consistent, because I do not want them to be. If all pianos are supposed to sound, last, and play the same, then what is the point of making more than one model of piano? In my case, they are so different that someone can come in, try them, and know immediately which one is preferred , and that tells me what to do with their piano.

Which just goes to show that standards are not a good idea. Different people have different tastes.

Yes, but you don't advocate anything in particular regarding re-engineering the piano - so going to play your pianos will not reveal anything that might shape future piano design. If anything you are a proud luddite who states things are fine the way they are. What would Ed learn from that? On the other hand, you would be able to see if there is anything to Ed's work if you made the effort to go hear his pianos. The fact that you steadfastly refuse to do this, and you won't even entertain what he's talking about makes you not part of the conversation regarding improvements to piano design. I'm sure your pianos sound nice though.

Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: ando] #2758014
08/12/18 10:07 PM
08/12/18 10:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,104
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,104
Oakland
Actually, I just described a way to make better upright actions cheaper than the way that they are built now. You can do that for free, if you are so inclined. So can anyone else. I have also published other of my ideas here, and I am not asking for a license fee or anything like that.

I also respond to sincere questions about piano technology to the best of my ability without asking anyone to travel hundreds of miles on what may or may not be a futile quest. Unlike many people here, I do not ask others to spend a lot of time and effort to verify my claims, and I do not refuse to answer questions asked about the technology or theory as I understand. I try to answer completely, so that others will be able to understand it.

Have you gone to hear Ed's pianos? Have you adopted any of his innovations? Why should I if you will not? If all you are interested in doing is getting me to spend my time and money to satisfy your curiosity, perhaps you should be paying me to go and listen to his pianos.


Semipro Tech
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: BDB] #2758017
08/12/18 10:15 PM
08/12/18 10:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 621
New Hampshire
W
WilliamTruitt Offline
500 Post Club Member
WilliamTruitt  Offline
500 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 621
New Hampshire
Consistency can have two meanings pertaining to pianos - one individual and within the piano, as in evenness in touch and tone. The other pertains to manufacturers and their desire to maintain an identifiable touch and tone across many pianos. I would be surprised if you told us that you do not work to achieve consistency in your regulation and voicing, as that is prized by our customers and takes a fair amount of skill on our part as technicians.

Speaking for myself, my pursuit of excellence is individual to each piano and that is particularly true for each instrument. Part of my job is to find the best voice that lies within that instrument and bring it out. When I was young and knew everything, I had a tonal vision that I wanted to impose on each piano. Now I let the piano tell me what it wants to be.

As technicians, we can have our own individual voice or style that comes from the methods we most often use, which have come from many years of practice. As such, my pianos likely do not sound like yours or Ed's, and the world is the better for our individual differences.

You don't want your pianos to sound all the same. Neither do we for the pianos we work on. What is surprising about your remarks is that you have spent the last half decade or more criticizing any creativity or deviation from orthodoxy at every turn, insisting that we tow the party line. I won't say it is hypocritical, but it is, err... inconsistent.

Will Truitt


fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: BDB] #2758021
08/12/18 10:24 PM
08/12/18 10:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,069
Seattle, WA USA
E
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
E

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,069
Seattle, WA USA
BDB, we are far OT but I don't recall anything you have described about your work with upright piano actions. Point me to it please.

The only attempt at original work you have done that I am aware of is your claim to deriving equal temperament via combinatorial math. You have never explained that clearly and no one else has adopted it and some who are better at math than me have deemed it bunk.

I have written about my work with Duplex scales and Longitudinal modes, published a book about LightHammer Tone Regulation and proper shaping of V-bars, and many other topics over many years.

I have taught classes at many PTG Conventions and seminars bringing examples of my work to many of them which is quite unusual. Sometimes this is done at my own expense.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: TheLoneliestMonk] #2758029
08/12/18 11:22 PM
08/12/18 11:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,104
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,104
Oakland
The upright action was in the topic about a Kawai upright recently in the Technicians' area.

Equal temperament is not derived from combinatorial math. Beats are.

I have tried to verify some of the things that you have said, such as:

That hammers are heavier than they used to be. I was not able to verify that.

That lighter hammers may be louder than heavier hammers. That may be the case. However, the information is incomplete. It does not explain why bass hammers are heavier than treble hammers, for instance.

Longitudinal modes in plain wire makes absolutely no sense. As I said, it is the sound that you get when you hit a string on the end, and has little duration or magnitude.

I discuss my ideas with physicists and mathematicians. You find some pretty good ones around Berkeley.


Semipro Tech
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: BDB] #2758041
08/13/18 12:48 AM
08/13/18 12:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,635
Hobart, Australia
A
ando Offline
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,635
Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by BDB

Have you gone to hear Ed's pianos? Have you adopted any of his innovations? Why should I if you will not? If all you are interested in doing is getting me to spend my time and money to satisfy your curiosity, perhaps you should be paying me to go and listen to his pianos.

Well, first, I am not a piano tech by trade, I am just an amateur. Second I am on the other side of the world, so it's not so easy. You are 2 states away. Have you never been to Seattle? Not even curious to drop in on Ed during all these years? I get the feeling from your comments towards his ideas that you wouldn't even try his pianos if they were 2 streets over. You come across as not very open to the ideas of others - although you do occasionally throw the odd idea of your own into the pot. The idea for the upright action was very recent though - and you didn't give the impression that you had actually built it. Seems like it was just an idea.

Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: ando] #2758058
08/13/18 02:32 AM
08/13/18 02:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,104
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,104
Oakland
I had never heard of Ed before he joined this forum. The only time I was in Seattle was before he joined. I think you do not have an idea of how far it is from here to Seattle. I would not know what to look for in Ed's pianos that would be so special. His claims about them are not specific enough.There are so few of his pianos that they do not have much bearing on anything that I might come across. Plus, what he proposes is too expensive for my clients.

Besides, my time is quite valuable. While this discussion has been going on, I have been discussing other piano matters with local school district teachers about their pianos, and I have some University pianos to tune in the next couple of days, plus lots of private parties that have had to wait while I put on concerts this summer.

What interests me is what I can do well quickly, and gives obvious results. By those standards, Ed's methods do not seem worthwhile.


Semipro Tech
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: BDB] #2758079
08/13/18 05:43 AM
08/13/18 05:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,635
Hobart, Australia
A
ando Offline
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,635
Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by BDB
I had never heard of Ed before he joined this forum. The only time I was in Seattle was before he joined. I think you do not have an idea of how far it is from here to Seattle. I would not know what to look for in Ed's pianos that would be so special. His claims about them are not specific enough.

He has been quite specific though - there are even some patents. Do you think they give out patents for things that are unspecific?

It comes across more as professional rivalry rather than a paucity of information. You don't want to give an inch to your rival. Ed's the same mind you - it's just that he says more specific things than you do. You are actually incredibly unspecific about most things you say. I have no doubt you are an excellent and talented technician, but you do hide behind vagaries rather than have them subject to critical analysis.

Btw - never tell an Australian they don't know about distances! Lol.

Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: TheLoneliestMonk] #2758080
08/13/18 05:50 AM
08/13/18 05:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 621
New Hampshire
W
WilliamTruitt Offline
500 Post Club Member
WilliamTruitt  Offline
500 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 621
New Hampshire
BDB, if you were a member of the Piano Technicians Guild, you would know who Ed is, since it exists primarily for educational purposes, and can be joined by any technician who wants to advance his or her skills. New technicians with few skills can attend meetings, all they need to bring is their curiosity and desire.

If you wanted to sample Ed's pianos, all you need to bring is your ear and an open mind.

Over the period of the last 5 plus years, I have occasionally championed the use of Paulello hybrid scaling to readers of this forum. During this time, BDB has made snake oil types of comments and challenged my honesty as I had a civil conversation with other interested readers. He has also made those kinds of comments towards Ed and his fully tempered duplexes, and his use of Paulello wire as well. It's ok to disagree, but it is how we go about it that is important.

During these years of arguing that it cannot possibly work, BDB has never made any effort to listen to it, yet still continues to denigrate others and their reported success with the wire. In fairness to BDB, the wire is not widely used and not available through our usual supply houses. It is an expensive specialty item, but can be had from JD Grandt in Canada, or Stephen Paulello in France. So I extended the offer of sending BDB some samples of the wire, without charge to him. Then he could try it at his leisure and convenience, and make his own judgments.

At that point, BDB went silent. He has never taken me up on the offer, even as he periodically continues to argue against its merits in his own acidic style.

Will Truitt


fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
Re: Steinway May be bought by China Company [Re: TheLoneliestMonk] #2758090
08/13/18 07:37 AM
08/13/18 07:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,583
Pennsylvania
Ken Knapp Offline

2000 Post Club Member
Ken Knapp  Offline

2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,583
Pennsylvania
I am not expert enough to say who is right or wrong as far as the piano technician discussion going on here. But it does look like this discussion has degenerated into the typical "mine is bigger than yours" competition which is often found in the technicians forum. I don't like it there, either.

Topic Closed.


Ken

Hammond Organ Technician
Piano Torturer
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
garritan steinway problem
by realovc22. 03/22/19 04:28 PM
QuietTime® GT-2 mini 2 Silent system.
by PianoStartsAt33. 03/22/19 03:41 PM
QuietTime® GT-2 mini 2 Silent system.
by PianoStartsAt33. 03/22/19 03:35 PM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics191,059
Posts2,809,558
Members92,847
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2