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Anonymous made Germany hammer #2757560
08/10/18 11:13 PM
08/10/18 11:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 878
Hong Kong
Weiyan Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Weiyan  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 878
Hong Kong
A friend's Petrof had hammers broken. She replaced with "Made in Germany" hammer, without brand name. I suggest that Abel is better. She said that the technician said "no all hammer fits Petrof..."
I suspect that will a German willing to sell their product anonymous like the Chinese do?
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/zfFjecc6xJ7prpWD6[/img]
Photo album for the hammers

This is found in TaoBao, for imported blue under felt, RMB350,pre-bored. NO marking on the hammer.
[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/YeaHwnRDSZXeRT5i8[/img]

Last edited by Weiyan; 08/10/18 11:17 PM.

Working on:\

J.S.Bach Prelude in C Min: No. 2 from Six Preludes fur Anfanger auf dem
Am Abend No. 2 from Stimmungsbilder, Op. 88
60s Swing No. 1 from Swinging Rhythms
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com
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Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757613
08/11/18 08:51 AM
08/11/18 08:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,428
Germany
JoBert Offline
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JoBert  Offline
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Posts: 1,428
Germany
I'm no piano tech, but I live in Germany.

I have a hard time accepting that a German piano parts company would produce hammers in Germany and would then refrain from putting their name on them, but instead put "Made in Germany" in garish large letters on them. That just doesn't fit.

What I very well can imagine however is a cheap Asian no-name producer stamping their hammers with such an oversized fake "Made in Germany", to fool the gullible.

Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757671
08/11/18 02:43 PM
08/11/18 02:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,572
🎹
Retsacnal Online content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,572
🎹
Perhaps the factory is named "Germany!" I recall years ago that overseas call centers would be given names like "San Jose," and "Albuquerque," so that when incredulous customers demanded to know where they were, the customer service rep could truthfully respond, "Its my pleasure to be located in wonderful Pheonix."

At first I was surprised that they're not just labeled "Abel," but this approach saves the un-savvy buyer from having to go through the the trouble of determining that the hammers purport to be German. It just gets that right out there! Perhaps they should just write it in Chinese too, so it need not be translated! wink


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757677
08/11/18 02:49 PM
08/11/18 02:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,572
🎹
Retsacnal Online content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,572
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On a serious note, it's sad periodically to see Chinese piano enthusiasts turn up here trying to verify the provenance of purportedly German stuff. It's sad to see them victimized by their own countryman. It's a shame that intellectual property isn't better respected. Both the true owners and their customers are victimized by scammers.


if you're content with A V E R A G E . . . then just do what everyone else does
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Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757684
08/11/18 03:11 PM
08/11/18 03:11 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
Scotland
Indeed, Intellectual Property law is not yet a highly respected or understood concept in China, it seems.

But one could make an argument that some European piano companies are, albeit in a rather different way, to some extent 'compicit'. It pleases them to pass off as European, what are essentially pianos made in and imported from China, but given some degree of finishing in a factory in Europe.

I am not here intending to knock Chinese pianos, by the way.

Last edited by David Boyce; 08/11/18 03:12 PM.
Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757741
08/11/18 07:22 PM
08/11/18 07:22 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
Scotland
And of course there is nothing at all new about pianos being "badged", in US parlance "stencil" pianos.

Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757746
08/11/18 07:59 PM
08/11/18 07:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 130
Muskoka, Ontario
T
Tim Sullivan Offline
Full Member
Tim Sullivan  Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 130
Muskoka, Ontario
Those hammers look exactly like Abel. Abel marks their hammers in this exact way.


I'm a piano tech and dealer in Central Ontario.
www.huntsvillepiano.ca
Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757769
08/11/18 10:14 PM
08/11/18 10:14 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 758
Chicago Suburban
M
MarkL Offline
500 Post Club Member
MarkL  Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 758
Chicago Suburban
Shouldn't German products be labeled In Deutschland Hergestellt, not Made in Germany?


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: David Boyce] #2757779
08/12/18 12:30 AM
08/12/18 12:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 878
Hong Kong
Weiyan Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Weiyan  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 878
Hong Kong
Originally Posted by David Boyce
Indeed, Intellectual Property law is not yet a highly respected or understood concept in China, it seems.

But one could make an argument that some European piano companies are, albeit in a rather different way, to some extent 'compicit'. It pleases them to pass off as European, what are essentially pianos made in and imported from China, but given some degree of finishing in a factory in Europe.

I am not here intending to knock Chinese pianos, by the way.

This case is in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is part of China indeed.

Last edited by Weiyan; 08/12/18 12:37 AM.

Working on:\

J.S.Bach Prelude in C Min: No. 2 from Six Preludes fur Anfanger auf dem
Am Abend No. 2 from Stimmungsbilder, Op. 88
60s Swing No. 1 from Swinging Rhythms
http://weiyanwo.wordpress.com
Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: MarkL] #2757784
08/12/18 02:24 AM
08/12/18 02:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,488
Melbourne, Australia
A
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,488
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by MarkL
Shouldn't German products be labeled In Deutschland Hergestellt, not Made in Germany?

Made in Germany is a label that has been around since the late 1800s, it is intended for worldwide distribution of German products. The only place you'll see in Deutschland hergestellt is in Germany or Austria. You still see products labeled "Made in Germany" in Germany and Austria if they are products that are also sold in other countries.

Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757787
08/12/18 02:38 AM
08/12/18 02:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,373
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
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Oakland
Very few people actually care who made a piano's hammers. More people care about how they sound.


Semipro Tech
Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757801
08/12/18 05:35 AM
08/12/18 05:35 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
Scotland
Indeed, BDB. But that is the problem with counterfeit goods (though in this case it seems like the hammers are genuine, from what others are saying).

What if you bought a set of hammers that said Ronson, or Abel, because you know the properties of those particular hammers, and it turned out they were counterfeit goods, and performed nothing like the real ones?

And would you want to fly on a plane whose engines had been maintained using cheap counterfeit parts made of inferior alloys? And if you recorded a CD and it was produced by a record label and started to make money, would you want a company in the far east to start churning out copies at a third of the price, with no royalties going to you?

A few weeks ago in this Forum I started a thread on intellectual property, because someone in the USA stole an article I wrote for my website, and used it for another site, with minor alterations. I felt affronted that my original piece of work, my writing, got stolen in that way.

There is a difference between pianos being "badged" - having stencil names - where this is done legally, and outright intellectual property theft.

Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: David Boyce] #2757879
08/12/18 12:15 PM
08/12/18 12:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,373
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
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B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 26,373
Oakland
There are plenty of people around here who recommend hammers other than the piano's manufacturer's. Perhaps you should save your comments for them.

In this case, it is not counterfeit hammers. The hammers are not original, and not advertised as original. There is no evidence that they are anything but what they are claimed to be, hammers made in Germany.


Semipro Tech
Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757929
08/12/18 02:24 PM
08/12/18 02:24 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
Gold Subscriber
David Boyce  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
Scotland
Quote
There are plenty of people around here who recommend hammers other than the piano's manufacturer's. Perhaps you should save your comments for them.


Eh? Who's arguing about using hammers other than the manufacturer's? Not me.

Quote
In this case, it is not counterfeit hammers. The hammers are not original, and not advertised as original. There is no evidence that they are anything but what they are claimed to be, hammers made in Germany.
Yes, it seems to be the consensus that they were, as printed on them, Made in Germany. I think that's what the O.P. was questioning, though - was the "Made In Germany" appellation fake.

Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757979
08/12/18 07:14 PM
08/12/18 07:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,528
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,528
New Hampshire
It's printed right on the side of the hammers...two of them even. How could they be fake?

:-)

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
(Best way to contact me privately)
Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2757983
08/12/18 07:40 PM
08/12/18 07:40 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,473
Scotland
Quote
How could they be fake?

:-)



In much the same way as some watches with "Rolex" printed right on the face.....

Re: Anonymous made Germany hammer [Re: Weiyan] #2758094
08/13/18 08:08 AM
08/13/18 08:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,528
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,528
New Hampshire
My question would be: How does piano sound? Good...bad...somewhere in between? What is the basis for the question? Maybe I missed that and need to review.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
(Best way to contact me privately)

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