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Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2756862
08/08/18 05:09 PM
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Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2756889
08/08/18 06:27 PM
08/08/18 06:27 PM
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I have an idea about this. I've learnt in the last few recent years about "frame rate" -

Oak trees do not "perceive" time faster, they just have a much lower frame rate.

Insects do not "perceive" time slower, they just have a much higher frame rate. Which is why they can get out of the way of your swiftly moving fly swatter.

Or at least this is what I understand by watching various documentaries about the subject.

My theory is that this "in the zone" thing you lot are talking about is partly to do with synchronicity of physical fitness, having eaten well, having slept well, or whatever, but it has come to my attention that this could well be an increase in "frame rate".

Apparently, one example of this is when one experiences fight or flight, or a sudden adrenaline rush. Like a turbo boost to the concentration brought on by increased frame rate. Hence why our friend a few posts above reckons he could see the seams on the baseball. I'm betting he probably could actually.

Assuming one is focused, let's imagine one's frame rate goes up slightly, then one could play better than one usually does, with more passion and more technical skill.

I believe it may be serotonin and dopamine related, and endorphins. I'm no biologist, but you know what I mean.

Often, one can experience this after an exercise session, where one feels more mentally focussed for the rest of the evening, and full of beans. But then, certainly in my case, I experience a come down the day after, and find myself more clumsy and slower thinking than usual.

Anyway, just waffling. But perhaps this is what our friend Rich is referring to as "soul" and "being in the zone" etc. etc.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2756911
08/08/18 08:27 PM
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I have been wondering how on earth we got to the 4th page following a simple question posed by OP which was answered by OP on the 1st page! Anyway, I love furthering my education by reading these forums, and listening to Arram play instead of reading the ABC news over breakfast was a treat. I look forward to experiencing "flow" at the piano some time before I succumb to old age, in the meantime, back to some practice....

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757017
08/09/18 07:19 AM
08/09/18 07:19 AM
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I am a bit disappointed and surprised at how many of you are so disrespectful to Richrf views. So what if they are different than yours? So what if he posts it often. Almost EVERYONE on this forum posts their own, same opinions all the time. Anyone who follows the PianoWorld forums can see a posters name, and know the "slant" of their views. And there is nothing wrong with this. We are all individuals, with our individual views. And if Richrf (or ANYONE) views helps even one new viewer, then they have been helpful. Chill out on the attacks.

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Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Bett] #2757018
08/09/18 07:22 AM
08/09/18 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Bett
I have been wondering how on earth we got to the 4th page following a simple question posed by OP which was answered by OP on the 1st page!


Best observation made here so far - maybe it's gullibility - an inadvisable blind trust in the intellectual honesty of those one is communicating with; or the inability to determine and/or admit when one is being scammed or trolled...in other words, no natural, built-in B.S. detector.

Or was it "Bull Biscuits" that Colonel Potter used to say a lot?


"Difficulties deferred and challenges unmet will eventually return with a vengeance to bite one in the butt." (paraphrasing Chopin)
Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: NobleHouse] #2757070
08/09/18 11:01 AM
08/09/18 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by NobleHouse
I am a bit disappointed and surprised at how many of you are so disrespectful to Richrf views..

I hope you don't include me in that. I addressed the specific reference to Arrau,because I did do some studying of what Arrau did and taught before Richrf brought him up the first time. I gave this information each time. I think last time I also provided links. I did not attack or show disrespect either of those times. I did present that information. Both times he ignored me and did not respond.

Perhaps you might be interested in that info, so I'll take the risk of being ignored again.

Arrau got presented as having this same idea of just letting it all flow. I don't want to hunt up the exact words, but you've read this thread as well.

There are some videos of interviews of former students of Arrau, who discuss what he taught them, and give examples in their playing. I saw there is another video of someone demonstrating those ideas who I think (?) was also his student or a student of his student: also a female teacher who does a summary of those ideas - it feels as if she doesn't play like he did but she does demonstrate those same ideas. These are about physical technique. One idea involves the role the shoulder area plays; you see circular motions of hands and arms. I don't remember the details and won't try to present them. But it's clear that Arrau worked with and taught technical things.

Secondly, Arrau as a student did not just let his considerable talent flow. He went from his native country to Germany to study with a teacher there. He learned things like music theory, so as to understand what was behind the composers' music, studying those composers as well, all that for interpreting their music intelligently as well as intuitively. His teacher was of the Romantic era and had that kind of mindset; Arrau wanted to move from that somewhat.

I first got interested in Arrau when as a student I tried to polish a seemingly simple piece which only a few good pianists had played, and of those, only few could make it interesting in any "real" way. Arrau was one of them. I studied and studied what he did at the time. It was the manner in which he shifted the value of a note (agogic accent), sped up and slowed down without losing pulse. Every time I tried to do that, it just ran away on me. I was shifting between "boringly even-pulsed" to "I can't feel the pulse anymore" - there was a deep understanding and massive control in what the master did. Some years later I was advised to read a book on the masters, and I got that book. I started with "A" - so of course Arrau was about the first I read about. (I think I got up to D - too much to do). My experience with that piece and hearing Arrau's playing of it made more sense.

I have a huge respect for this pianist, and don't like seeing his artistry being reduced to that one thing. Secondly, in my own journey, what is being proposed absolutely would not work for me, and it almost makes a mockery of the hard work many of us are doing. But I left those feelings aside. I just don't want this musician to be misrepresented.

--------------------
The video that was used: I've studied a fair bit of what this teacher brings across. It is not just that one aspect which is in that one short clip. She also teaches specific physical things. She does try to tie how you hear two consecutive notes to a physical action, but it's not a one-sided street, and often the physical comes first.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Richrf] #2757076
08/09/18 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by John305
I used to be an athlete (I'm 47 so my competitive days are over) and there were times when I would be what is called "In the zone".

Based on your personal experience in baseball, do you think a professional baseball player could ever achieve this state of "being in the zone" without any training and practice in the specialized "techniques" associated with baseball?

Originally Posted by Richrf
Originally Posted by John305
...I believe that exists but like I stated above, you have to have the ability, the skills, the training first before you can let go so to speak and just flow. And that takes years to attain, or at least I believe it does in any highly skilled activity.

Yes, I agree with everything you have written. It can be experienced in all of the arts, sports, games like billiards, and relationships, etc. As you said, it takes patience and then it happens.

While you say you agree with everything he has written, much of what you've spoken of previously focus on the "flowing" and not so much on John305's other points: ability, skills, and training. Someone seeing your comments for the first time would think that you feel training (including development of technique) is secondary to the "flowing", when what John305 is saying is that all of this comes first before the "flowing".


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Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2757092
08/09/18 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by John305
I used to be an athlete (I'm 47 so my competitive days are over) and there were times when I would be what is called "In the zone".

Based on your personal experience in baseball, do you think a professional baseball player could ever achieve this state of "being in the zone" without any training and practice in the specialized "techniques" associated with baseball?


It's not training . It's discovery through exploration.

Read about the impressionists.

"Their education had been entirely their in, as was that of Monet and his friends, who had chosen to heed Courbet's call too nature. The development of their personalities was not due to any strict adherence to any teacher's doctrines but to the choice they had made from what their elder's offered, to their adopting only what suited their own temperaments and remaining free to go their own ways." [The History of Impressionism, by John Rewald, 1973]

To be an artist, one must nurture one's own creative spirit and express it through gestures whether it be art, dance, or music. Academic/Institutional commercialism that markets through fear and promotes stress is counterproductive to this process. I am suggesting to the explorers of the arts there is a totally different process and feeling available to them. It is not for everyone. It is for explorers.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757099
08/09/18 12:18 PM
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Rich
I would argue that ‘being an explorer’ is not limited to a particular process. Those that believe skills and technique are needed might use the analogy that these are tools used by the musical explorer—- just like the compass and flashlight and a suitable pair of shoes are used in exploring topography.

That is what Arrau did: he developed the skills and technique and then explored the important element of flow.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757122
08/09/18 01:12 PM
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The quote about Monet - in other words picked and chose his tools and techniques to suit him. But still had to be familiar with these things in order to utilise them.

As we know from Picasso, the impressionists/cubists etc threw the rule book out of the window in order to achieve a certain freedom, and flow. However, as we also know from Picasso, they couldn't half draw in a classical sense extremely well if required to.

One could say - in order to break the rules, one first needs to have mastered the rules.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2757128
08/09/18 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
[quote=John305]I used to be an athlete (I'm 47 so my competitive days are over) and there were times when I would be what is called "In the zone".

“Based on your personal experience in baseball, do you think a professional baseball player could ever achieve this state of "being in the zone" without any training and practice in the specialized "techniques" associated with baseball?”

No. You have to have a mastery of the skill or technique before you can stop thinking about it and let go to allow yourself to “flow”. An example, Michael Jordan, arguably the greatest basketball player of all time wanted to switch to playing baseball. He played briefly in the minor leagues and was mediocre at best. His athletic mastery was in basketball skills because that was what he was training at for years. When he tried to transition to baseball he was frustrated that his athletic genius did not transcend from one sport to the other. Simply put, one of the greatest athletes of all time was great in only what he trained at specifically.

Last edited by John305; 08/09/18 01:24 PM.

It’s never too late to be what you might have been. -George Eliot
Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Zaphod] #2757138
08/09/18 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaphod
The quote about Monet - in other words picked and chose his tools and techniques to suit him. But still had to be familiar with these things in order to utilise them.

As we know from Picasso, the impressionists/cubists etc threw the rule book out of the window in order to achieve a certain freedom, and flow. However, as we also know from Picasso, they couldn't half draw in a classical sense extremely well if required to.

One could say - in order to break the rules, one first needs to have mastered the rules.



The Impressionist technique flowed from their expression. Their expression coming from inside -their spirit/soul. They felt and saw something they wished to express and developed their own individual, personal techniques to emote this expression. They literally created their own techniques that were in total conflict with institutional techniques that were smothering their visions.

It is totally opposite from what Academic/Institutional instruction is all about. The reason is simple. It is a straightforward process to develop a 10 level curriculum, package it around technique, grade it, and charge money for it. It is a business. It is the business that successfully ostracized and punished the Impressionists for threatening their business model.

What I am suggesting cannot be taught and cannot therefore be packaged into some commercialized course curriculum that can be scaled into a money making enterprise. It can only be discovered via personal exploration. I repeat, my approach is only for those who are interested in life discovery. There are no shortcuts and time is irrelevant. What is relevant is patience, sensitivity, and nurturing of one's inner creativity. And then there is the natural flow.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757147
08/09/18 02:09 PM
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Aha.

It seems that your "beef" as it were, Rich, is not with technique, as such, but with "institutional technique".

There's nothing wrong with inventing new techniques. But the fact still remains that technique is an integral part of artistry.

I don't think anyone's arguing against new things and progression. But (and perhaps we misunderstood) it seemed from your posts that you were saying that if one expresses oneself, then technique is kind of conjured out of nowhere, whereas myself and a few others are arguing, I think, that this technique, whether it be established or progressive, still has to be calculated and thought out, and disciplined, no matter how flowing it is.

Artistry is a combination of a few different things. One of them being technique. Another being expression. And another, in my opinion, is discipline.

Artistry is not simply expression on its own. Expression on its own is simply an incontinent outburst of arbitrary nothingness, meaningless without the structure of the other elements to bring it together into something cohesive.

Well, that's what I say anyway.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757152
08/09/18 02:36 PM
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New techniques are created by the creative spirit of the artists in order to express themselves. It is this creative process that moves through exploration, experimentation, and evolution that eventually provides the artist with the unique and useful gestures to express their inner vision. It all starts with the vision. Technique (gestures) to support this vision follows. If one is relaxed (stress is anathema to this process) then the gestures will flow most readily. It is a lifelong process and there is no standard curriculum.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Richrf] #2757158
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Originally Posted by Richrf
Originally Posted by Zaphod
The quote about Monet - in other words picked and chose his tools and techniques to suit him. But still had to be familiar with these things in order to utilise them.

As we know from Picasso, the impressionists/cubists etc threw the rule book out of the window in order to achieve a certain freedom, and flow. However, as we also know from Picasso, they couldn't half draw in a classical sense extremely well if required to.

One could say - in order to break the rules, one first needs to have mastered the rules.



The Impressionist technique flowed from their expression. Their expression coming from inside -their spirit/soul. They felt and saw something they wished to express and developed their own individual, personal techniques to emote this expression. They literally created their own techniques that were in total conflict with institutional techniques that were smothering their visions.....


Rich
This is not my understanding of Impressionism in music. Rather, that these composers used the same piano technique for playing the music... but used new tonalities, chord progressions etc in composing. I would be interested in reading your source that provides the technical differences

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: dogperson] #2757163
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Richrf
Originally Posted by Zaphod
The quote about Monet - in other words picked and chose his tools and techniques to suit him. But still had to be familiar with these things in order to utilise them.

As we know from Picasso, the impressionists/cubists etc threw the rule book out of the window in order to achieve a certain freedom, and flow. However, as we also know from Picasso, they couldn't half draw in a classical sense extremely well if required to.

One could say - in order to break the rules, one first needs to have mastered the rules.



The Impressionist technique flowed from their expression. Their expression coming from inside -their spirit/soul. They felt and saw something they wished to express and developed their own individual, personal techniques to emote this expression. They literally created their own techniques that were in total conflict with institutional techniques that were smothering their visions.....


Rich
This is not my understanding of Impressionism in music. Rather, that these composers used the same piano technique for playing the music... but used new tonalities, chord progressions etc in composing. I would be interested in reading your source that provides the technical differences



My quote refers to Impressionism as represented by painters including Monet, Pissaro, Cezanne, etc. I provided the book and author for reference. In regards to piano, one only needs to study the gestures of great pianists, all different yet all evoking the impressions their spirit wishes to express. There is no need to interpret what Arrau describes, there is only the journey to discover it: The connection and flow from the soul to the gesture which is felt as the body relaxes. Then the soul can readily express through the music. The technique is the gesture and it is unique to the artist. Just observe as I have done countless times.

BTW, no great baseball hitter hits in the same manner for the same reason. Mickey Mantle once tried to copy Ted Williams' technique and quickly gave up. It wasn't him.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Richrf] #2757173
08/09/18 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Richrf
New techniques are created by the creative spirit of the artists in order to express themselves. It is this creative process that moves through exploration, experimentation, and evolution that eventually provides the artist with the unique and useful gestures to express their inner vision. It all starts with the vision. Technique (gestures) to support this vision follows. If one is relaxed (stress is anathema to this process) then the gestures will flow most readily. It is a lifelong process and there is no standard curriculum.


This I agree with.

Now. The more important question. Were there any impressionist baseball players? laugh

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: keystring] #2757220
08/09/18 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
I am a bit disappointed and surprised at how many of you are so disrespectful to Richrf views..

I hope you don't include me in that. I addressed the specific reference to Arrau,because I did do some studying of what Arrau did and taught before Richrf brought him up the first time. I gave this information each time. I think last time I also provided links. I did not attack or show disrespect either of those times. I did present that information. Both times he ignored me and did not respond.

Perhaps you might be interested in that info, so I'll take the risk of being ignored again.

Arrau got presented as having this same idea of just letting it all flow. I don't want to hunt up the exact words, but you've read this thread as well.

There are some videos of interviews of former students of Arrau, who discuss what he taught them, and give examples in their playing. I saw there is another video of someone demonstrating those ideas who I think (?) was also his student or a student of his student: also a female teacher who does a summary of those ideas - it feels as if she doesn't play like he did but she does demonstrate those same ideas. These are about physical technique. One idea involves the role the shoulder area plays; you see circular motions of hands and arms. I don't remember the details and won't try to present them. But it's clear that Arrau worked with and taught technical things.

Secondly, Arrau as a student did not just let his considerable talent flow. He went from his native country to Germany to study with a teacher there. He learned things like music theory, so as to understand what was behind the composers' music, studying those composers as well, all that for interpreting their music intelligently as well as intuitively. His teacher was of the Romantic era and had that kind of mindset; Arrau wanted to move from that somewhat.

I first got interested in Arrau when as a student I tried to polish a seemingly simple piece which only a few good pianists had played, and of those, only few could make it interesting in any "real" way. Arrau was one of them. I studied and studied what he did at the time. It was the manner in which he shifted the value of a note (agogic accent), sped up and slowed down without losing pulse. Every time I tried to do that, it just ran away on me. I was shifting between "boringly even-pulsed" to "I can't feel the pulse anymore" - there was a deep understanding and massive control in what the master did. Some years later I was advised to read a book on the masters, and I got that book. I started with "A" - so of course Arrau was about the first I read about. (I think I got up to D - too much to do). My experience with that piece and hearing Arrau's playing of it made more sense.

I have a huge respect for this pianist, and don't like seeing his artistry being reduced to that one thing. Secondly, in my own journey, what is being proposed absolutely would not work for me, and it almost makes a mockery of the hard work many of us are doing. But I left those feelings aside. I just don't want this musician to be misrepresented.

--------------------
The video that was used: I've studied a fair bit of what this teacher brings across. It is not just that one aspect which is in that one short clip. She also teaches specific physical things. She does try to tie how you hear two consecutive notes to a physical action, but it's not a one-sided street, and often the physical comes first.



thumb Thank you for the information. I love reading and learning new details on pianists. I was NOT referring to you in my post, but that is another matter. I quite enjoy reading most of your posts. Actually, I usually enjoy most people's posts, even if I don't agree with them. I like reading others opinions-it expands my understanding of humankind. Now, if everyone thought like me, life indeed would be boring. grin

Last edited by NobleHouse; 08/09/18 08:27 PM.
Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757315
08/10/18 08:22 AM
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NobleHouse - +1.

It's a big tent, if we choose to make it so.

Also want to say something about being in the zone - my "other vice" is hockey, which I have played for a long time, but never got great coaching, and since my college days have never been able to play more than once a week, if that. This summer I signed up for a clinic - 2nd day a week skating, and with good instruction, and the chance to repeat a skill many times - slowly, at speed, with and without opponent - to work out the kinks. Lo and behold, in the weekly game, I am experiencing the feeling of time slowing down for me - it feels like I have extra seconds to see the puck, the opponents, and decide what to do about the situation.

I think that experience supports most of what has been said above - being in the zone makes you more effective, and, at least in my case, being in the zone is more likely to happen on an improved technical base.


Mason & Hamlin A ('97)
Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757338
08/10/18 09:56 AM
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Richrf...

Still waiting for a demo from you of your soul expressing itself in music.

How many times do I have to ask? It is disrespectful to ignore a simple request, and an opening for me to show some disrespect in return.

It appears that you have not experienced that which you proselytize. So preacher, get off your soapbox.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757347
08/10/18 10:22 AM
08/10/18 10:22 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 23,707
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
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Virtually every great pianist practiced technique separate from repertoire at considerable length. I think the idea that this is not needed or comes after ones interpretive or expressive ideas is completely false. I heard nothing in any of the posted videos to contradict this.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 08/10/18 10:22 AM.
Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Zaphod] #2757351
08/10/18 10:49 AM
08/10/18 10:49 AM
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Posts: 119
Chiltern Hills, England.
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gwing Offline
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Chiltern Hills, England.
Originally Posted by Zaphod

Insects do not "perceive" time slower, they just have a much higher frame rate. Which is why they can get out of the way of your swiftly moving fly swatter.

Or at least this is what I understand by watching various documentaries about the subject.



Well, flies have been measured to have reaction rates to light flashes faster than 5ms. Human reactions in sprinters responding to the gun in 80ms and, AFAIK, the fastest human startle responses to loud noises of 30ms. So yes flies have faster reactions than us but what has that got to do with frame rates? (unless we're playing video games).

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Medved1] #2757413
08/10/18 02:47 PM
08/10/18 02:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 136
Hershey, PA, USA
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Handyman Online content
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Hershey, PA, USA
Originally Posted by Medved1




Also want to say something about being in the zone - my "other vice" is hockey, which I have played for a long time, but never got great coaching, and since my college days have never been able to play more than once a week, if that. This summer I signed up for a clinic - 2nd day a week skating, and with good instruction, and the chance to repeat a skill many times - slowly, at speed, with and without opponent - to work out the kinks. Lo and behold, in the weekly game, I am experiencing the feeling of time slowing down for me - it feels like I have extra seconds to see the puck, the opponents, and decide what to do about the situation.



Yes! I know the feeling of being "in a zone" when it comes to sports participation - sometimes when I'm shooting trap with my 12 gage (gauge) shotgun I get in one (a "zone". that is) and can blow one orange clay target after another out of the sky into complete smithereens without thinking about it at all - other times I'm in the "dead zone" and couldn't hit the side of a barn from the inside, as the old-timers are so fond of saying (old-timers say a lot of goofy stuff, based on folk wisdom mostly)...

Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic - which was what?


"Difficulties deferred and challenges unmet will eventually return with a vengeance to bite one in the butt." (paraphrasing Chopin)
Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757624
08/11/18 09:53 AM
08/11/18 09:53 AM
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Posts: 70
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Hotstrings Offline OP
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Wowwww. . Glad to see all this new discussion although this is only my first year on piano and needed to see who else heard of the expression. I know that is what my teacher tells me if all my fingers don’t land on the keys for chords ( left hand ) at exactly same time. I tend 5o test out notes due to my 60 years of chord knowledge on guitar.

Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757627
08/11/18 10:01 AM
08/11/18 10:01 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,336
Florida
dogperson Offline
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dogperson  Offline
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Florida
Originally Posted by Hotstrings
Wowwww. . Glad to see all this new discussion although this is only my first year on piano and needed to see who else heard of the expression. I know that is what my teacher tells me if all my fingers don’t land on the keys for chords ( left hand ) at exactly same time. I tend 5o test out notes due to my 60 years of chord knowledge on guitar.


Hi hot springs
We all have unconscious habits. Mine was playing the entire left hand chord just a little ahead of the right hand. Now that I am aware of it, I do it only when appropriate.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho
Re: Teacher said: “Stop painting the piano “ [Re: Hotstrings] #2757629
08/11/18 10:12 AM
08/11/18 10:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,017
Canada
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Originally Posted by Hotstrings
Wowwww. . Glad to see all this new discussion although this is only my first year on piano and needed to see who else heard of the expression. I know that is what my teacher tells me if all my fingers don’t land on the keys for chords ( left hand ) at exactly same time. I tend 5o test out notes due to my 60 years of chord knowledge on guitar.

Two thoughts that keep niggling at me is a) if there is some way your teacher could use your previous skills to an advantage while bringing in piano-specific things, b) if you might put your old skills "on ice" until you get more "pianistic" in your ways, and then start seeing where they might fit in. For the fancier chords vis-a-vis classical music, I'd think you'd find more of them in later music, but I seem to remember being shown that Bach created some interesting doozies.

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