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Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2756139
08/05/18 03:19 PM
08/05/18 03:19 PM
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rob1261a Offline OP
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Originally Posted by rob1261a

built in USB MIDI (Yamaha needs an adapter)


Sorry, I meant Bluetooth MIDI

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Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: marimorimo] #2756154
08/05/18 05:19 PM
08/05/18 05:19 PM
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Northern England.
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Originally Posted by marimorimo
Originally Posted by MacMacMac

If I had to do this all over again I'd choose the cheapest piano that had an action that I liked. I'd add the PC-based virtual instruments and a sound system. And for less money than a so-called good piano I'd have a much better piano.


While this is indeed the most efficient, bang-for-the-buck method, some people like myself prefer the look and convenience of a plug-and-play digital. And a console would look nice in the living room, instead of a slab DP + monitor speakers + computer. All those wires and connections are the exact opposite of elegant.

I bought Pianoteq Stage last year thinking it would breathe new life into my aging DP and while the piano sounds and expressiveness are indeed better, I found myself abandoning it pretty quickly. It's a bother having to connect it to my laptop every time I played, and despite having a relatively fast CPU and playing with settings I could still notice some latency. The latency wasn't a big problem (I would forget it while playing) but it still was bothering me at the back of my mind. Especially since when I played my 10-year old DP I could not feel any latency. Maybe I need a better soundcard but that's another expense.


I don't have discernable latency on Pianoteq using AS104ALL free programme, whatever it is. 1.3, or 2.7ms is the figure with no problems on a 2008 lower end laptop.
If you play using the piano speakers, supposing they're not too bad, the wires will be stuffed behind the console. You need not connect it each time you play; better to leave it all switched on; it appears to do no harm; you lust play it like an acoustic. I find I play it more that way if even for a few minutes whilst she is getting ready . . . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: dmd] #2756291
08/06/18 02:24 PM
08/06/18 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd

You already have a reasonably decent digital piano (Korg SP250).

You might be wiser to spend your money on lessons to help improve your skill level quicker.

I know …. that isn't as much fun … LOL …

Just a thought.


Hi DMD, I do not disagree with you. It is difficult to shop for a DP when you are not experienced enough to know what you are really looking for. But once I did start playing again I got the itch to get a new DP. Also the SP250 wasn't looking too good in a new condo... And has since been sold. So I guess I have no choice but to get a nice new shiny DP smile. I realize I can still get an inexpensive entry level similar to the SP250, but since I am going thru the process I do prefer to get a model that is above me and I will not grow out of... And looks nice in our new condo.

So I did a final run with a friend who does play: Roland HP603A\605, Yamaha CLP645 and lastly the Kawai CA58. And it looks like the winner is................ Kawai CA58. It sounded just as good as the others and has a really nice feeling all-wood keyboard (GFC).

Working out the final details with the dealer and hope to have it delivered soon.


Thanks,
Rob

Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2756295
08/06/18 02:44 PM
08/06/18 02:44 PM
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Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by rob1261a
... it looks like the winner is................ Kawai CA58. It sounded just as good as the others and has a really nice feeling all-wood keyboard (GFC).

Working out the final details with the dealer and hope to have it delivered soon.



Good choice.

Now …. get yourself a good teacher and enjoy.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Casio PX-160, SennHeiser HD 555 Headphones, Apple iPad Mini, Spacestation v.3 Powered Stereo Monitor, Focal CMS 40 Monitors
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Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2756340
08/06/18 07:11 PM
08/06/18 07:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Congrats Rob, all the best with your new piano!

Perhaps you can share a picture of the instrument in your new condo, too? wink

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: Kawai James] #2756812
08/08/18 01:49 PM
08/08/18 01:49 PM
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rob1261a Offline OP
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Thanks James, I will post a pic.

Today I went to the dealer to finalize the purchase and set-up delivery (Friday). And I decided to try the CA78, wow, the new Pianist Mode Samples (SK-EX Rendering) are really impressive.

Link with more detailed description: http://www.kawaius.com/digital/Features/sound_technology.html

I also did really like the GFII action. So back to dealing we went and with the Kawai rebate ($150) it wasn't too much more. So the CA78 should be here on Friday grin

Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2756902
08/08/18 06:49 PM
08/08/18 06:49 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Hello Rob,

Originally Posted by rob1261a
...wow, the new Pianist Mode Samples (SK-EX Rendering) are really impressive.


Yes, I believe it's a welcome improvement - an evolution of the SK-EX sound introduced with the previous generation models.

Originally Posted by rob1261a


Thanks for the link. It appears Kawai America have added some information from the Kawai Global site. wink

http://www.kawai-global.com/product/ca78/

Originally Posted by rob1261a
I also did really like the GFII action. So back to dealing we went and with the Kawai rebate ($150) it wasn't too much more. So the CA78 should be here on Friday grin


Wow, nice upgrade Rob - that was a pleasant surprise. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2757192
08/09/18 04:52 PM
08/09/18 04:52 PM
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Apparently not end of story....

As my wife is preparing the room for the piano coming tomorrow, I realized it’s not going on the full wall because she has other plans for that wall (secret). So she wants it to go on the half wall with ledge. After measuring, the CA78 would not fit properly. The top Kawai that will fit there is the CN37. So it looks like we are changing to the CN37. Which we did like very much also.

Be sure to measure your area first...

Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2757218
08/09/18 07:25 PM
08/09/18 07:25 PM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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I'd go with full wall, full piano.
And put the wife on the half wall.

Priorities! smile

Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2757238
08/09/18 09:08 PM
08/09/18 09:08 PM
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Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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At that point I'd go back and look at the Roland HP605 smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2757253
08/09/18 11:11 PM
08/09/18 11:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,501
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by rob1261a
Apparently not end of story....

As my wife is preparing the room for the piano coming tomorrow, I realized it’s not going on the full wall because she has other plans for that wall (secret). So she wants it to go on the half wall with ledge. After measuring, the CA78 would not fit properly. The top Kawai that will fit there is the CN37. So it looks like we are changing to the CN37. Which we did like very much also.

Be sure to measure your area first...


Hello Rob, thanks for the additional update.

Yes, the CN37 is still a very fine piano, although obviously not in the same class as the CA78.

I'm just wondering though...you mention a "half wall with ledge". Presumably this means that there is some kind of flat area that the instrument must fit underneath, is that correct? Please bear in mind that the CN37 (and CA78 also) incorporates upward facing speakers in the roof of the instrument. However, if the top speakers are being covered, I expect the sound character will also change considerably.

Perhaps you could share a picture or two of the fall wall/half wall to help us to understand why the CA78 will not fit?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2757357
08/10/18 10:22 AM
08/10/18 10:22 AM
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Hi James,

Can't see where to insert pic. The wall gives us 35" to ledge. Ledge is about 3" out.

Height Specs:

CA58\78 - 36.5"
CN37 - 34.6"
HP603 - 35.5"
HP605 - 37.5"
CLP645 - 36.5"


We are going to the store tomorrow to measure ourselves. I believe the speaker section is lower than the cabinet.


Thanks,
Rob

Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2757371
08/10/18 11:06 AM
08/10/18 11:06 AM
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Trying to be helpful, but apologies if I'm not

I have a CA67 which I thought was the same cabinet as the CA78 (but could be wrong). The specs for the CA67 say it should be 36.5in high. The back of the cabinet is 34.5 inches from the floor, because it is recessed for the speakers. That speaker recess is just under 3 inches. But the overall cabinet height is 35.25 inches - BUT on top of that is the music desk which when folded down is another 0.75 inches.above that. But that only makes it 36in high.

I'm stood on a carpet, so maybe the feet have sunk in another 0.5 inches.

Also in practice the back needs to be a little away from the wall because the power cable and pedal cables come up the back of the piano and go through a small slit that is just below the bottom of the keyboard unit..

Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2757372
08/10/18 11:12 AM
08/10/18 11:12 AM
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Germany
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Rob, you definitely don't want to put the CN37 under that ledge, even if it fits. The ledge would more or less (more "more" than "less", actually) cover the upwards facing speakers, which are close to the back, which would absolutely kill the sound. You would need to pull it away from the wall by those 5 inches to free the speakers. And then you can just as well do the same with the CA78 and enjoy the overall better piano. smile

Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2757382
08/10/18 11:36 AM
08/10/18 11:36 AM
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Sorry I thought you meant the length of the piano when I suggested the HP 605.

Still the piano should be a couple of inches away from the wall. So one more inch I would think you could manage that and have the CA78 piano. If anything put a piece of wood behind the piano to make sure it the piano can't lodge up against the ledge if it is slightly less the height of the ledge.

Anyway good luck deciding and enjoy whatever piano you purchase smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2757458
08/10/18 03:08 PM
08/10/18 03:08 PM
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Yep, you definitely don't want the piano right up to the wall. No ledges in my case, but I found a minimum of 5" were necessary for decent sound, otherwise the effect was quite bothersome. I ended up placing it ~6" away and the difference in sound was night and day between that and the piano 2-3" from the wall.

You really shouldn't let that aspect dictate your piano choice, and they are very different instruments indeed. I'd take the Roland HP601 or HP603 over the CN37, but I definitely cannot say the same when it comes to the CA78. Btw, there's also the CA58 which is a middle ground between the two, in case that interests you.

Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2757462
08/10/18 03:25 PM
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Thanks for the feedback.

We just came back from the Kawai dealer and in fact the CA78\58 are actually 35" high (not 36.5" from specs) and 34.5" for the back end speaker unit. So it looks like all options are back on the table. And putting it 5 to 6" from the wall should be fine.

My wife actually preferred the CA58. She liked the GFC and the GF2 action and the quality of the sounds from both, but did not like the touch screen control panel on the CA78. It is not the best design and maybe should have been a combo of touch screen and buttons?

The dealer needs to order the CA58 since she prefers the Rosewood over the Satin Black. Should take about 7-10 days.


Thanks,
Rob

Last edited by rob1261a; 08/10/18 03:27 PM.
Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2758758
08/15/18 09:35 PM
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As we were waiting for the CA58 to come in, the dealer called and said he just got in a CA78 Rosewood and he could delivery today. I could not resist. So now we have the CA78.

It plays and sounds great!

Still not sure about the touch screen interface.

I will update as I use it more.

Last edited by rob1261a; 08/15/18 09:36 PM.
Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2758771
08/16/18 12:01 AM
08/16/18 12:01 AM
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INDIA
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INDIA
Originally Posted by rob1261a
As we were waiting for the CA58 to come in, the dealer called and said he just got in a CA78 Rosewood and he could delivery today. I could not resist. So now we have the CA78.

It plays and sounds great!

Still not sure about the touch screen interface.

I will update as I use it more.

Hi Rob
Congratulation for choosing CA 78 over CA 58...

I have also order for CA 78 will get 2nd week September.One month waiting....

Major difference is CA 78 has 88 keys Graded Conterweight
Pianist Mode/ 22 more Sound/ 2 Tweeters extra in Speaker/ Headphone Amplifier/
5" Big Touch Screen/ Supports Bluetooth Audio...

Pls Share your experience with your CA 78...

As i could not take demo or compare CA 78 with some other high end dp here in India.

Its not in stock n available only against confirm order only & This is same with all other high end.

So your input will be most helpful for me...

Thank you..

Enjoy your DP..
Gandhi



Last edited by Gandhi; 08/16/18 12:04 AM.
Re: Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice [Re: rob1261a] #2758790
08/16/18 02:42 AM
08/16/18 02:42 AM
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I've mentioned this with Rob as well re the LCD screen touch interface. I find the it easier to use than my old ES110 where you have to push and hold multiple buttons at a time. With the LCD, you just have to scroll through to find different sounds, and VT is easy to use enough as well.

There are certainly some bugs yet to be resolved by Kawai which are discussed in detail in other threads. But working around it, personally I prefer the touch screen over the old button interface.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
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