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Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
mcoll #2754815 07/30/18 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mcoll
I don't think it's reasonable to be bothered by the criticism, Cinjero. That's what your quotation marks would suggest.
In all fairness, your post at the top of the page is signed with "lead designer...". That's misleading. Just something worth keeping in mind smile


Reasonable?

Really??

Yeah, it's not unreasonable to know how to read a forum and understand how it works. Did you check page 1, post 1?

OMG.... wow. EOL.

Quote
Production Voices (production grand) has announced / updated the progress @90%. With released possibly in the FALL.

Total library (all versions 24/96, 24, 16) nearing 580 gigs. (gulp) ~ 16 bit alone is 100 gig.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2754825 07/30/18 08:33 PM
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Ok - let's revert back to the VI discussion.

Thanks for the updated links. As this was recorded at 24/96, I am tempted to grab the Gold. But the SSD requirements are a bit large and I am not sure this would play on my older laptop.

So I would like to see a "player special" version at 16/48 because:

+ much less SSD space required

+ easier to use with older computers

+ 48KHz might sound better than 44.1KHz (48KHz easily derived by dividing by 2 & more headroom for our DAC filters)

+ 16 bit samples provide plenty of dynamic range for consumers who are not producing/editing music

- Will require more SSD space & more computer horsepower than 16/44.1

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2754848 07/31/18 01:34 AM
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So I was right to perceive your quotation marks as sarcasm ha
But I didn't expect you'd take offense that much... Especially at a friendly remark. Sorry for the offtopic...

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
newer player #2754866 07/31/18 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player

+ 48KHz might sound better than 44.1KHz (48KHz easily derived by dividing by 2 & more headroom for our DAC filters)


I'm glad you picked up on that; I noticed that as well, and it does seem a bit strange. Downsampling to 48Khz to save space and have essentially no impact on the sound makes a lot of sense, but downgrading to 44.1Khz just because it's the CD standard, and introducing small aliasing effects while doing so and potentially increasing further distortion from any subsequent filtering, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2756435 08/07/18 10:29 AM
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out now

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2756541 08/07/18 04:47 PM
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To buy or not to buy. That is the question.

$99 for Concert Grand LE, tempting.


Me on YouTube

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2756550 08/07/18 05:50 PM
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Really hard to buy another one piano VSTi if you already own so many that you even can't mention all of them in your signature...


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult; UVI - Falcon; Ivory 2 - ACD, Grand Pianos; Vilabs - ALL; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AcousticSamples - All; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2756567 08/07/18 06:17 PM
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Now I want to buy something that sounds like a real instrument (Ok, ok, as close as it's possible smile ).

Watch this incredible video. Priceless content. These guys caught a "soul" of each instrument with a very simple setup without dozens of microphones.

Especially listen from 00:59 Body and soul of Steinway D at all its beauty!




Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult; UVI - Falcon; Ivory 2 - ACD, Grand Pianos; Vilabs - ALL; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AcousticSamples - All; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2756570 08/07/18 06:19 PM
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Hard to buy more you say?
Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Really hard to buy another one piano VSTi if you already own so many that you even can't mention all of them in your signature.
Unfortunately, Max, that's not true.

That's why this fool and his money were often parted ...
- 4Front True Pianos
- 8DIO 1928 Steinway
- 8DIO 1929 Legacy Piano
- 8DIO 1969 Legacy Piano
- Alicia's Keys
- Amore Grand Piano
- Analogic Piano
- Aria Maestosa
- Berlin Concert Grand
- Cinesamples Piano in Blue
- Galaxy Steinway
- Galaxy Vienna Grand
- Galaxy Vintage D
- Garritan Classic Pipe Organs
- Garritan Steinway
- Imperfect Samples Fazioli Ebony Concert Grand
- Imperfect Samples Old Black Grand Pleyl
- Imperfect Samples White Baby Grand
- Jonathans Glockenspiel
- Kawai EX Pro
- NI Berlin Concert Grand
- NI New York Concert Grand
- NI The Gentleman
- NI The Giant
- NI The Grandeur
- NI The Maverick
- NI Vienna Concert Grand
- NI Vintage Organs
- Pianissimo
- Realsamples Italian Harpsichord
- Salamander Piano
- Sampletekk WG2 Studio Grand Piano
- Signature Piano
- SoniMusicae Blanchet 1720
- Sonivox Harpsichord
- Synthogy Ivory 1.5 Bosendorfer
- Synthogy Ivory 1.5 Fazioli
- Synthogy Ivory 1.5 Steinway
- Synthogy Ivory 1.5 Yamaha
- XLN Audio Addictive Keys 1.0.6

Last edited by MacMacMac; 08/07/18 06:20 PM.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2756571 08/07/18 06:24 PM
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I completely understand you MacMacMac . That's why I want something different, not similar to what I already have.


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult; UVI - Falcon; Ivory 2 - ACD, Grand Pianos; Vilabs - ALL; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AcousticSamples - All; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2756577 08/07/18 06:50 PM
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My favourite demo tracks of Production Voices - Concert Grand

https://soundcloud.com/productionvo...y?in=productionvoices/sets/concert-grand

https://soundcloud.com/productionvo...1?in=productionvoices/sets/concert-grand

On these tracks, I can feel the body of the Grand piano. I think adding some reverb (not built-in) will increase that feeling.


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult; UVI - Falcon; Ivory 2 - ACD, Grand Pianos; Vilabs - ALL; Pianoteq - 6 Std; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AcousticSamples - All; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2756582 08/07/18 07:19 PM
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Max_Forte, did you really think I'd let the short space for the signature stop me? cool Though your list is longer.

Otherwise, MacMacMac nailed it. Interesting to see the list over his GAS attacks. wink I've actually considered the majority of those piano VSTs at some point in time.

One question though, isn't the Old Black Grand Pleyel from AcousticSamples? I don't see any mention of a Pleyel on the ImperfectSamples website.

I like the video from Stefan Mendl, and have seen it before. Seems they just put microphone pairs above the hammers, but a little back, maybe a mixture of what is called hammer and far/room microphones, by the VSTi companies.

Well recorded, and captured, by the Synchron Stage Vienna guys, not saying it isn't, but I don't think it's anything the VSTi companies can't capture, or haven't, at least not the big names in the business.


Me on YouTube

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2756651 08/08/18 12:48 AM
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Wow, Mac, that's an impresive (/disturbing) list. If there's an average price of 100e/VST, you're looking at some top-of the line digitals or a nice used acoustic.
Albeit, you have 40 pianos there, not just one.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2756686 08/08/18 04:28 AM
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I don't remember what I paid for these pianos. Some were cheap. Some were even free.
It was not surprising that the freebies were of poor quality.
But it WAS surprising that some of the high-priced ones were crap.

I think I may have outgrown the G.A.S syndrome. I haven't bought a piano this year, nor last.
But this board and the many threads where new pianos are discussed make it hard!

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2757156 08/09/18 02:54 PM
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I am really happy that this is out. I can relate to what some people here say about having too many VSTs and about not wanting to invest too much more into even more libraries. Thing is, this library right here has been in the making for years, and no matter how it will actually turn out, the work that went into it is probably unprecedented. Or perhaps VSL CFX might come close with its ten mics and hundreds of gigs. But from what I can tell, this is a one man show. Blows my mind how he was able to pull this off. With all the delays I thought that perhaps he's gonna quit, but now it is finished! Awesome. Much respect.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2757161 08/09/18 03:25 PM
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I might go for this eventually but honestly i'm at the point where i can safely say without hesitation or "only ifs" that i found my go-to piano in the VSL CFX.

It took me a long time to find a piano that not only excels in tone and playablity, but also sounds amazing and full in the final mixdown on any system you throw it in (car stereo, PA system, phone, ipad, laptop speakers, you name it...).

You know that signature cologne you put when you go out on any occasion because you know it will be appropriate no matter what. That's how i feel about the VSL CFX.

The only reason why i might got for this Steinway D in the future is out of curiosity, to see if all the hard work put in making it translates and lives up to the specs.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2757195 08/09/18 06:14 PM
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I will most likely pass on the introductory offer. If it goes on sale later down the line, I might get it, and might even pick it up at the full price, if it will be considered good by other users.

I'm talking about Concert Grand LE, as I'm reluctant to go for libraries occupying more SSD space, which is still rather expensive.


Me on YouTube

Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2757288 08/10/18 05:15 AM
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I've already got the Production Voices Steinway Concert Grand COMPACT version, but it has the following serious issues...
For me, unless those issues are 100% working (in the full version), it's a deal-breaker, so not I'm buying it.
Anybody able to confirm either way, please?


1. Cannot play a note silently, no matter how slowly I depress the key.

2. Sympathetic string resonance doesn't really work...
Without sustain pedal, hold down any key like middle C (almost silently!), then briefly strike any related notes in the harmonic series ABOVE or BELOW and they should cause the held-down middle C note's undamped string to start resonating in sympathy at its fundamental or harmonic pitches, depending which note pitch excited their resonance... and you'll hear their resonant ringing continuing as long as you keep holding down the silent middle C key. We all know this, right?!
But on PV Concert Grand Compact, it's not working properly... It only works for notes ABOVE (eg. strike a high C octave ABOVE and you hear that high C's pitch ringing from middle C's undamped harmonic) whereas for any related notes BELOW it doesn't work, eg. strike lower octave C and it should excite middle C's undamped fundamental pitch, at least, to ring in sympathy, but IT DOESN'T WORK.


Perhaps Production Voices can comment on this, or release an update to fix things. Otherwise I assume it's the same for the full version too....???

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
Cinjero #2757313 08/10/18 08:19 AM
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First Impressions...

(No I am not Jason, just to make that clear)

There are 72 RAR files (2gig each, until the last one). Great move to use the download manager (I've used it with other products). So, for myself, it took maybe 45 minutes or less (250 ~ 425mbs) and the downloader also unpacks and installs everything. Next, get the presets from your email link----- pretty easy (pretty much the same setup if you have the Production Grand). Load up Kontakt...

This impression is from only Kontakt, not my DAW where I could add additional speakers----- so with that; the sound is very clean, crisp, sharp. Some same problems with loading a preset (like PG) you might wind uploading everything even though you're only using a few mics; this seems to be caused by turning all the volumes down on unused mics but still loading the samples; just something to be aware of if your system temporarily freezes.

Issues from this:

Quote

1. Cannot play a note silently, no matter how slowly I depress the key.

2. Sympathetic string resonance doesn't really work...
Without sustain pedal, hold down any key like middle C (almost silently!), then briefly strike any related notes in the harmonic series ABOVE or BELOW and they should cause the held-down middle C note's undamped string to start resonating in sympathy at its fundamental or harmonic pitches, depending which note pitch excited their resonance... and you'll hear their resonant ringing continuing as long as you keep holding down the silent middle C key. We all know this, right?!
But on PV Concert Grand Compact, it's not working properly... It only works for notes ABOVE (eg. strike a high C octave ABOVE and you hear that high C's pitch ringing from middle C's undamped harmonic) whereas for any related notes BELOW it doesn't work, eg. strike lower octave C and it should excite middle C's undamped fundamental pitch, at least, to ring in sympathy, but IT DOESN'T WORK.


-1------ Not sure what you mean; slowly eventually there is a faint sound and maintained if held. Of course, pressed harder----- sound is louder.
-2------ As above, I don't believe this is a problem.

In addition, I have both the PG and this compact version----- there "compact" for a reason, hence smaller samples and functionality.

I've only briefly played with the inside (max) and outside (3/4) and it sounds just as good and better than the demos. I think Jason has refined this piano from lessons learned with the C7, I'm pretty impressed anyway.

$149, yeah a good deal.

If there's any specific question---- I can try to test it for anyone.

Re: Steinway D Concert Grand
propianist #2757373 08/10/18 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by propianist

1. Cannot play a note silently, no matter how slowly I depress the key.

2. Sympathetic string resonance doesn't really work...

The reason for #1 was that the sympathetic resonance was not working properly with a silent note, so Jason set the minimum velocity at I think 2 - so no silent note, but the sympathetic resonance issue went away. This actually was something I emailed him on in the Production Grand Compact. This is a unique issue with the soundfont in Sforzando and not Kontakt.

For #2, the programming is set to trigger sympathetic resonance only on matching harmonics above the note pressed as you indicate. I can't remember exactly how this is scripted, but it may be easy to change. I'll take a quick look tonight as I also have Concert Grand Compact.

I was initially going to get the Concert Grand LE, but I am a bit ticked off right now on the upgrade policy. When I bought Concert Grand Compact during the launch, the marketing clearly said it would be upgradable to the Kontakt version. After some back and forth emails with Jason, he essentially told me I didn't pay enough to get upgrade pricing, so I was out of luck. Essentially then this is false advertising. He admitted he marketed this poorly, but is holding his ground. I also own 3 other libraries, and not even any consideration for this. I was only looking for a $5 or $10 dollar discount. So at this point, I am not inclined to buy any more products from him since he doesn't seem to honor his commitments. It's really a matter of principle to me and not the money here being asked for. Other developers I have bought from have always stepped up and did the right thing. So pretty mad at the moment on this.

I've spent a lot of time with CGC and as far as the sound quality in various compositions (working on Debussy Reverie currently), I find the bass a smidge weaker then some of my other vsts. It has quite a hard attack which takes away a bit in terms of delicacy. There are some upper notes, especially at forte levels that have excessive metallic ringing. Other than this, the sound is very clear, almost clinical, with good stereo presentation.

Given my current state of mind and from comments I read here and elsewhere, I am inclined to spend my money (and ssd space) on the Embertone Walker once I know the pedalling and other issues have been addressed.

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