Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Roland HP601 vs HP603 vs Kawai - Need Advice

Hello, I have tried searching the forum for information but there seems to be very little information about the Roland HP601 anywhere online. I am a current lifetime beginner hoping to actually start to learn again. I know people say trust you own opinions when you try them out but since I am not at a level I feel I can do that I just want others feedback and advice. I currently have a Korg SP250 with the RH3 action.

My thoughts from my recent store visits:

Dealer 1 - Roland HP601, HP603, Yamaha CLP635, CLP545 (no 645).

- I did not like the Yamaha. The action did not feel right to me. A bit heavy and bouncy. And the sound was not as impressive as your hear on videos. A bit too bright.

- I did like the action on the HP601 & HP603, seems more similar to the RH3. The feel of the keys was very nice as they seem to do a really nice simulated Ivory and Ebony. Based on the salesperson and expectations I felt I should have preferred the sound of the HP603, but I preferred the sound of the HP601. It sounded clearer to me.

Dealer 2 - Kawai CN27 (no CN37), CA48 & CA58. And based on reviews and videos I expected to be really impressed with the CA48 & CA58, but I wasn't. The keys felt very bouncy, quick return. And again the sound of the 2 main grand pianos did not sound as good as I expected. The control panel on the CA48 is sparse and not very helpful. The CA58 had a much better control panel with the LCD and many more buttons. But it is on the left side which I found awkward, and not that intuitive. But I'm sure it would be fine once learned. I preferred the display\buttons above the keyboard like on the Roland.

So at the end I preferred the HP601, which was not expected and my main hesitation is do I know enough to make the best long term decision. I also felt I got a good price on the HP601, $1700+tax+delivery\set-up. 2k total. It normally sells for $2499.

So I am deciding whether to pull the trigger on the HP601 or not? I do prefer the full piano cabinet over the stage type pianos.

thanks, rob

If you have tried all these models and you like the sound and the touch of the HP601, I think the choice is already made. Other people may say that they do not like Roland's piano sound or that they prefer Kawai's key action, but that will not change your experience. Usually people ask in forums about digital pianos models because they have no opportunity to experience them and also because they can not evaluate the sound quality by youtube videos.

When you said that you preferred the sound of the HP603 to that of the HP601, this may have a justification. Technically the HP603 is a superior model because, among other things, it uses SuperNATURAL Piano Modeling technology, while the HP601 uses the previous SuperNATURAL Piano technology (sampled sound). But there are many people that don't like very much this modeled sound and prefer the old sound, and this seems to be your case.

You preferred 601 over 603 despite the salesperson and your expectations..... nothing wrong with that.

If you get the 601 and continue to progress in learning piano, it is difficult to predict how your preferences might change over time to the extent that you end up regretting the decision to get the 601 instead of 603 or the other makes & models .... so do not let this possibility deter from what you already prefer based on your own first-hand evaluation.

Good luck!

PS - if this means your ears prefer sampled piano sounds over modeled, so be it, would not be all that surprising to me. Maybe somewhere down the road after modeled tech has matured, it may be that there comes a modeled piano sound that suits your ears better than it does in the present, but until then .......

Hello Rob,



If you preferred the HP601 to all of the other models you tried in the store, and you are happy with the price the dealer is offering, I don't believe there's much more to think about.

Enjoy your new piano!

Cheers,
James
x

I preferred the 601 to the 603 which had rather boomy bass on it's speakers. If a piano has resonant speaker (tuned) boxes, it will have a strong bass. But it will be nothing like a real piano. And the price of course, is much nicer as is, imo, the cabinet.

It's not the first time I hear somebody liking the older sound compared to the new modelled sound. That's perfectly fine, choose what you like best. And it's possible that as you progress you'll get into VSTs (the sound is generated by a computer and you only use the piano for the keys, not the internal sounds), which will be better than all available sounds in current generation digital pianos. In this case as well, the HP601 is a great choice, since you get Roland's top action at a great price.
And concerning price, I think there is some wiggle room in there, but I don't know the prices in the US. Maybe check the prices paid thread, to get an idea. You could offer a lower price, or ask them to include a bench and headphones in the price or something like that.

Please test them out more before you decide. At the begining I liked overall tone in older Roland sound engine more BUT new modelled one grew on me a lot, because of dynamics, decay time, organic resonances and best fortississimo sound I've heard on digital piano. In the end it's obviously up to you but I just urge you to try it a bit more

Very much agree with this.

Hi, thanks for all the feedback.

We did go and try them all again and added the CLP635 and CLP645 from another dealer. The HP-603 did grow on us and has a very dynamic sound quality. Not sure if it is realistic or not but sounds very good.

It seems like the Rolands are priced higher than similar Yamaha models. The HP603 is about the same price as the CLP645 and has 2 speakers with 60 watts vs 4 speakers with 4x25 watts on the CLP-645.

We did really like the sound of the CLP-645. The action was a bit heavier but not sure that is a bad thing. It has the NWX wood action.

I think since there are so few Roland dealers in my area (1) that the prices are not as competitive as they are on the Yamaha. And the Roland dealer is just switching out from the Yamaha and has some great deals on the CLP645, new in box.

Any thoughts on the HP603 vs CLP645 would be appreciated.


thanks,
rob

Just remember ... the price is not the price. On the mid- and high-tier pianos the tag shows the dealer's asking price. You don't want to pay that much.

So ... are the Roland's really higher-priced than the Yamahas? Only if you want them to be!

Between HP603 and CLP 645 I would take Roland without even thinking. Sound engine in Rolands is ahead of it's time. Even now. Also what MacMacMac wrote, you can probably buy it a bit cheaper. negotiate a little

I will be going back out again to try these and have decided to add back the Kawai CA58. I really want to get a better feel for the all wood GFC action, which the others do not have.

As far as the Roland, I started to realize the importance of the Dealer (support, reputation, etc). And the one Roland dealer in my area does not have a good reputation and when I was there, several times, I felt like I was buying a car. Salesperson had to talk to manager who then called the owner to get me a special deal, which turned out to not be so special, IMO. Also this dealer is phasing out the Yamaha and had the CLP-645 on a liquidation sale, but their price was no better than the very reputable Yamaha dealer in my area. So I just did not feel good about purchasing a DP from them.

So the Roland is not totally out. But I think it is now between the CLP645 vs the CA58 (the CA67 is no longer available). I really did like the Yamaha sound but the feel of the NWX keys were a but heavier (more down force needed) than I expected and found it hard to tell the difference with the CLP635 action. But I was not able to spend a lot of time trying them out at the time of my last visit.

Again since I am a beginner I am skeptical of my ability to judge these properly on my own. I do have the salesperson play them to get a much better feel for the sound. I also find it very strange that Yamaha does not seem to want you to see the action (model), where the Kawai proudly displays it in the store and on all literature.

Based on what I consider well negotiate prices the CLP645 and CA58 are about the same prices, $2500 US delivered.

As always I welcome opinions and feedback on these models.


Thanks Again,
Rob

Hi Rob,

First I want to say that neither instrument is a bad choice. I almost did not post here because my first reaction is simply a preference. I prefer the Yamaha sound. My personal thought is that modeling sound without an instrument just isn't there yet - not to my ears anyway. The fact that there is the ability to modify the Yamaha samples in many different parameters (similar to Roland's modeling) is very appealing.

Further, the Yamaha Smart Pianist app. offers such cool options, like taking any music from your smart device, analyzing the chord structure, and delivering a lead sheet. Here is a quick video on that app. (please ignore the terrible music that goes with the video):
https://youtu.be/AiwEmHujQVw

Good luck in your decision. Full disclosure = My store switched from Roland to Clavinova. It was a good choice for us.

I’m watching this thread as I’m in a similar predicament as OP and currently choosing between Roland HP601, HP603, and Yamaha CLP-645. (Kawai not in the picture because of limited dealer presence.)

I’m with Rich Glassini regarding Roland’s modeling. I remember being very excited and having high expectations for the fully modeled SuperNATURAL sound engine when I first tried out the HP603 but came out with a negative impression—from the first few bars. There’s an unpleasant metallic and twangy sound IMO. The expressiveness was amazing though. However, the unit I tried suffered from extreme lag (from key press to sound generation) although that could be due to improper settings. I tried it again a couple of weeks ago and while the sound didn’t bother me quite as much anymore, there was still a hint of lag. Maybe it’s the dealer’s fault for not prepping their digitals properly but I’m not going to gamble.

I much preferred the HP601, which uses sampled sounds. However, between the HP601 and the CLP-645, I find the sound of the Yamaha much better. Of course, it’s all down to personal preference, but when asked to choose between the two, even my non-musically-inclined husband agreed with me that the Yamaha had a better “voice.”

That said, I haven’t totally ruled out the HP601 yet since it’s much cheaper than the CLP-645 and has some features I like.

A while ago, I found that changing the "Touch" parameter to a higher value (that is, requiring harder key-strikes for "ff") would move the metallic (out-of-tune overtones) sounds to a louder dynamic, on "SuperNatural" Rolands. That smoothed-out the tone quality, and was (IMHO) a better match to how an acoustic piano behaves:

. . . it'll clang, but you have to play pretty hard before it does.

i haven't tried that with the SN Modelled Roland models.

Hi, and thanks for all the feedback. This has become a much harder decision than I anticipated.

Rich, I have been in your King of Prussia store and it is really nice. Tim has been very helpful. Also I ended up trying the CLP685, which was next to the CLP645, and really liked it but out of my price range. They may have actually had a negative influence on trying the CL645. I should know better

I do wish you guys carried the higher end Casio models for comparison since you are a Casio dealer.

One of the issues I have had is that no one store has all of the DPs I am looking at and need to travel quite a bit to see them. The Yamaha, Roland and Kawai dealers only sell those brands. Wish there was a Bonners in the area

The other issues is that since I am at a beginner level I need to rely on the salespeople to play them to really see what the are capable of. I can play but not to the point where I can properly judge the full capabilities. I also watch a lot of the YouTube demos for sound comparison. But you often do not know how they are being recorded (mic or line out). e.g. The Kawai sounds really good on the videos but in person does not sound the same. The Yamaha and Roland demos seem more true to actual sound. I will share this one for the HP603 which is recorded using a high quality mic. And it does sound quite good: https://youtu.be/PP5mm13iVfs

I have found a dealer that is transitioning from Roland to Yamaha and has the HP603 and CLP645 and plan to visit them today.

As far as the HP601, which was my original preference, after trying them again and having someone demo both of them I did prefer the HP603. I also tried the HP605 but preferred the HP603. Also the HP601 has only 28 watts of total power which is low for a 2k DP. The HP603 is about $500 more and sounded much fuller and has 60 watts of power. I know the Rolands seem to get by with less power for the money and claim this is because they have more efficient sound systems. The CLP645 and CA58 both have 4 speakers and 100 watts.

I was really hoping to like the Kawai more since the all wood actions feel really good to play but the sound just didn't seem as good as the Yamaha or Roland. I know there are many adjustments that can be made and the default setting may not be ideal for store demo.

Other things I do like about the Roland; 10 year warranty, built in USB MIDI (Yamaha needs an adapter), the control panel above the keyboard as opposed to the left side like Yamaha and Kawai, with the Piano Partner app you get over 20 Auto Accompaniment Rhythms (not just alternate beats for the metronome).

My concerns about the Roland; it is already 3 years old, only 60 watts compared to 100 for the others, and the main one, is the modeled sound preferred to the Yamaha and Kawai. Up to this point the answer has been yes. But still concerned if it is realistic and the best sound to learn on.

I really do like the sound of the CLP645, it looks the best of all of them, and has the best sound system is this price range (4x25). But I do not think the action is as good as the Roland or Kawai. Just seems a bit firm to me.

So maybe after trying the CLP645 and HP603 side by side I will have a better idea.

Thanks,
Rob

May I suggest that you forget about the specs? Instead focus on the piano's performance.

Once you put some miles on the piano you might find that the piano's speaker system stinks.
The watts don't matter. The speakers are just terrible. So you get an external sound system, and it doesn't matter what the piano has built-in.
Of course that's just me (and a lot of other people). But, in time, it might be you, too.

I don't think this is so. The Clavinovas have had built-in USB MIDI since at least 2005, if not earlier.

The action is the only part of the piano you cannot change, improve, or replace. You don't like the Yamaha action? So get the Kawai.

Eventually you might find that the sound of the piano stinks. (Mine did). So you eliminate the piano's sound, and instead generate the sound by attaching a PC and running virtual piano software. There's significant cost involved, but the results are stellar.

If I had to do this all over again I'd choose the cheapest piano that had an action that I liked. I'd add the PC-based virtual instruments and a sound system. And for less money than a so-called good piano I'd have a much better piano.

A word of caution …..


None of these things that you are, in my opinion …. over analyzing …. will make a hill of beans difference in how you sound when you play ….. if you cannot play.


You already have a reasonably decent digital piano (Korg SP250).

You might be wiser to spend your money on lessons to help improve your skill level quicker.

I know …. that isn't as much fun … LOL …

Just a thought.

While this is indeed the most efficient, bang-for-the-buck method, some people like myself prefer the look and convenience of a plug-and-play digital. And a console would look nice in the living room, instead of a slab DP + monitor speakers + computer. All those wires and connections are the exact opposite of elegant.

I bought Pianoteq Stage last year thinking it would breathe new life into my aging DP and while the piano sounds and expressiveness are indeed better, I found myself abandoning it pretty quickly. It's a bother having to connect it to my laptop every time I played, and despite having a relatively fast CPU and playing with settings I could still notice some latency. The latency wasn't a big problem (I would forget it while playing) but it still was bothering me at the back of my mind. Especially since when I played my 10-year old DP I could not feel any latency. Maybe I need a better soundcard but that's another expense.