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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2748708
07/02/18 07:42 AM
07/02/18 07:42 AM
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Grazilerimba Online content
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I honestly don't understand why this VST is getting so much praise here. Sure, the sound is great, but the playability is garbage IMHO. The notes sticking out are really bad in my opinion, and some of the notes are also slightly out of tune. Repedaling simply doesn't work at all. When it comes to repedaling. this is among the harshest piano VST I've ever played, perhaps the Addictive Keys Steinway was a bit harsher, but I constantly have disappearing notes etc, it completely sucks. This is significant to me because they explicitly advertise repedaling as a feature. Also there's some bad samples. Try hitting E2 very loudly, there is a snap sound in it. Why do they not notice that at all? I noticed these flaws within a few minutes of playing it. Always blows my mind how developers spend so much time and effort sampling the pianos but then shipping their products with such avoidable flaws. At least Embertone doesn't call it "the Bugatti Veyron of virtual instruments" lol. Anyway, I don't want to take away your enjoyment of it, if you can tolerate these flaws in order to enjoy the sound, then I envy you, and all the power to you. But I can't play this for more than a few minutes. Really infuriating too because the sound is definitely nice, but not like this.

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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2748712
07/02/18 08:24 AM
07/02/18 08:24 AM
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I was constantly disappointing with all sample libraries because of the nature of technology itself, thats why I love Pianoteq as instrument the most. But I also love authentic sound and I learn to live with flaws of samples except if its too much. I dont think about this piano that playability is sucks. Truth is, minority of acoustic pianos also are in top condition and most of them play and sound with flaws. Even with that lots of people love that imperfection and slightly out of tunes notes. Problem with out of tune notes in Emberton is so small that is not worth to discuss and this is part of charm of that vintage piano. Anyway there will be update for Emberton, its not a bad idea for you to send them your opinion about some flaws to fix it. In the meantime I will I enjoy in part that this piano shines the most and that is sound. Despite some flaws this piano is very playable.

Last edited by slobajudge; 07/02/18 08:33 AM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: slobajudge] #2748729
07/02/18 10:12 AM
07/02/18 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
I was constantly disappointing with all sample libraries because of the nature of technology itself, thats why I love Pianoteq as instrument the most.


Those who put pianoteq above sample libraries usually used to tell about the incompleteness of sample libraries. But like the sample libraries, Pianoteq is also technically incomplete, and neither is fundamentally close to acoustic piano. There are technical advantages of modeling piano in detail, but the most important thing in playing the piano is sound after all. Pianoteq is still a long way from there. While Pianoteq continues to evolve, I think they need to change the sound module itself to overcome the sound of the sampling libraries.

However, I have seen a lot of discussions about comparisons about them in several forums, and that is undetermined. Eventually, the instrument that someone think is good is better one.

Last edited by angmyu; 07/02/18 10:19 AM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: MacMacMac] #2748738
07/02/18 10:45 AM
07/02/18 10:45 AM
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Posts: 288
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Me too. NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER.
Originally Posted by pianistje
Not that i have any intention whatsover to buy another monster piano library.
Originally Posted by Fleer
But you will. smile
Will not buy.
Must resist.
Must resist.
Must resist.
Must resist.
Must resist. frown

We are a bit pathetic ,.... aren’t we ?
grin

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: RobR] #2748820
07/02/18 04:50 PM
07/02/18 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
Originally Posted by Jay017
I purposely have tried to avoid purchasing more piano libraries this year. CinePiano, Light and Sound Steinway C and VSL CFX were all very tempting based on the initial forum reviews, hype and sound demos but I think I made the correct decision to wait. Well definitely in regards to the first two piano libraries mentioned as both have had bad reviews in regards to playability from experienced users on here and other audio forums. I purchased the previous piano library from CineSamples (Piano In Blue) a few years ago and my opinion was similar to what Karvala said above. The velocity response is strange and even worse there is some latency within the actual samples that I have to increase the attack/start time as a workaround which further negatively impacts the overall tone. Its a useful library for film scoring/production/MIDI composition but for live playing it is useless.

The two piano libraries I use the most are Garritan CFX Concert Grand (Full) which I purchased around six months ago and Galaxy Vintage D. Both are excellent in their own way. I actually prefer the tone of Vintage D if I'm being honest but its just a shame it lacks proper release samples/control as it sounds a bit staccato and digital at times. CFX is best for playability.


That latency you experience with some libraries rings so familiar with me as well and that's my only beef with the Embertone Steinway even though i've been an active endorser of it since its release. And that's exactly why i decided to come back to the Garritan CFX which is still unmatched for me in terms of playability.


Garritan CFX is really playable and sounds very sweet in digital shape, I like it despite the fact that acoustic Yamaha cfx sounds a little different, but Emberton has so authentic sound from vintage Stainway D that I forgive them any quirks.

It would be interesting if there's a video somewhere on Youtube showcasing the sound of that Abbey Road CFX played live to compare it to Garritan's interpretation. I'm guessing it's a unique sounding CFX, different than other CFXs (?). Garritan mentions in the CFX promo video the Abbey Road head engineer had other pianos at his disposal to choose from and he chose that particular CFX at the end. I wonder if those "other pianos" were different brands or were all CFXs.

Here it is, i found the video where they talk about their decision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sulGpl58lJg


To me, the Garritan CFX is not a bad representation of the acoustic instrument, and it's clearly a particularly fine individual instrument, but it sounds a little too light. The VSL CFX, in spite of some flaws, is in my view a better representation of a CFX from a purely sonic perspective. Both are actually very good VSTs; the Garritan is possibly more versatile and slightly more playable, but VSL have really nailed the CFX timbre and it's perhaps a more realistic playing experience.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2751455
07/14/18 11:39 AM
07/14/18 11:39 AM
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slobajudge Offline
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Update for Embertone Steinway D is coming, it will include also half pedal. From VI control, Embertone:

`An update for everyone- we are releasing more documentation at the beginning of next week. And also, we’ve been hard at work creating an instrument update that includes additional features, most notably, half pedaling. It sounds and feels great! We hope to have an update ready within a week or two.`

Last edited by slobajudge; 07/14/18 11:40 AM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: slobajudge] #2751468
07/14/18 01:12 PM
07/14/18 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
Update for Embertone Steinway D is coming, it will include also half pedal. From VI control, Embertone:

`An update for everyone- we are releasing more documentation at the beginning of next week. And also, we’ve been hard at work creating an instrument update that includes additional features, most notably, half pedaling. It sounds and feels great! We hope to have an update ready within a week or two.`


This sounds promising. If the update is received well and the reviews are good, i might purchase the library. One question i have is in regards to the multiple mic positions. Is there any way to link them together so that when you change settings in one Kontakt instance it affects the other. It would seems like good idea to avoid phase issues to ensure all the samples are playing back at the same time also.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2751488
07/14/18 02:16 PM
07/14/18 02:16 PM
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Also another question, is there an upgrade from the lite version?

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2751519
07/14/18 05:19 PM
07/14/18 05:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 611
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As far as I know they will fix multi mics patch. Till then I use two mic position at the same time in Kontakt but I set up them separately. There is no problem with that, everything works fine. I think that now it is also possible to upgrade from the lite version but better to check with them because it is not an option earlier.

Last edited by slobajudge; 07/14/18 05:20 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: slobajudge] #2751531
07/14/18 06:03 PM
07/14/18 06:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 167
Moscow, Russia
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
Update for Embertone Steinway D is coming, it will include also half pedal. From VI control, Embertone:

`An update for everyone- we are releasing more documentation at the beginning of next week. And also, we’ve been hard at work creating an instrument update that includes additional features, most notably, half-pedaling. It sounds and feels great! We hope to have an update ready within a week or two.`



It is a very positive attitude to customers' feedback and requests! I'm a half step away from buying it.

I'm so excited by this instrument and fell in love from the very first time I heard how it sounds. For a long time I was looking for a replacement for Imperfect Samples' pianos which has great tone but not as good at playability. Now I think I found it! Great job, Embertone!

Can anyone please explain what is different in this samples that make them so alive: No compression, added reverb, or some another processing? I spent two hours on tweaking my VSTis to make them sound similar but I couldn't.


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult: UVI - Falcon; Vilabs - Ravenscroft; Pianoteq - 6 Std (Bluthner, Steinway D, K2); Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Max_Forte] #2751545
07/14/18 06:42 PM
07/14/18 06:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 611
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slobajudge Offline
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Update for Embertone Steinway D is coming, it will include also half pedal. From VI control, Embertone:

`An update for everyone- we are releasing more documentation at the beginning of next week. And also, we’ve been hard at work creating an instrument update that includes additional features, most notably, half-pedaling. It sounds and feels great! We hope to have an update ready within a week or two.`



It is a very positive attitude to customers' feedback and requests! I'm a half step away from buying it.

I'm so excited by this instrument and fell in love from the very first time I heard how it sounds. For a long time I was looking for a replacement for Imperfect Samples' pianos which has great tone but not as good at playability. Now I think I found it! Great job, Embertone!

Can anyone please explain what is different in this samples that make them so alive: No compression, added reverb, or some another processing? I spent two hours on tweaking my VSTis to make them sound similar but I couldn't.

Embertone is well known for almost fanatic approach in deep sampling instruments. They just record real resonance of the piano and there is no difference compare to sound you hear from some youtube videos where people play acoustic Steinway D from the close position. It is obvious they put a lot of effort to record piano from small distance with lots of details and lots of velocity levels with minimum processing in production (if at all).

Last edited by slobajudge; 07/14/18 06:44 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2754807
07/30/18 06:06 PM
07/30/18 06:06 PM
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So I just downloaded the full 175gb (with all mic positions) but i'm not sure how to continue with the install.
The purchase email says the following: "The Connect app will download, fix and extract your library so that it's ready for you to add to Kontakt." however I ended up with 194 ZIP files and I'm not sure where I have to extract which files. The Connect app immediately closes after I open it with the status message 'Installing..' after every file.
The brief included documentation is not really helping me further (refering to the “main” samples folder which I don't have yet).
I'll send an email to their support tomorrow, but maybe someone here had the same issue and the answer can be of help for others as well.
----

Oh and BTW, I think they changed the pricing of the full library + all mics from $175 to $149. smile
Which imo makes more sense to me than the previous pricing (when buying the full set was actually $1 more expensive than buying all mic's separately)


Kawai VPC1 - Garritan CFX
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2754877
07/31/18 07:48 AM
07/31/18 07:48 AM
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Aves Offline
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Nevermind, just unzip with the option 'extract here' and it will find the corresponding directories automatically.

Last edited by Aves; 07/31/18 07:48 AM.

Kawai VPC1 - Garritan CFX
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2756870
08/08/18 05:52 PM
08/08/18 05:52 PM
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Moscow, Russia
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Max_Forte Offline
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To all Happy users of this beautiful piano: What do you think about it after the end of the honeymoon?

As you may know, Production Voices just released their Concert Grand instrument. Can't decide which of them should I pick....

Can you get "DRY" sound of it? Don't get me wrong, it sounds beautiful, but sometimes we need the totally dry piano.


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult: UVI - Falcon; Vilabs - Ravenscroft; Pianoteq - 6 Std (Bluthner, Steinway D, K2); Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Max_Forte] #2756891
08/08/18 06:36 PM
08/08/18 06:36 PM
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slobajudge Offline
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
To all Happy users of this beautiful piano: What do you think about it after the end of the honeymoon?

As you may know, Production Voices just released their Concert Grand instrument. Can't decide which of them should I pick....

Can you get "DRY" sound of it? Don't get me wrong, it sounds beautiful, but sometimes we need the totally dry piano.

I still think that Emberton Steinway is the most realistic sounding vst piano sample at the moment. I still keeping my Pianoteq with me as different technology but I erase all others. No vst piano sound can compare with Emberton Steinway. Even Garritan CFX which I like very much sound flat and boring compare to ES and the same with VSL CFX. The both are fantastic pianos but money wasted. Emberton informed today that update is ready very soon which bring half pedal and bugs fixed, and I cant wait to update it. I dont need another piano, frankly speaking I cant imagine that some new piano will be better. I don`t use dry sound, because I mainly play classical music. On the other hand, new Production voices Steinway has some advanced stuff implemented, it is probably excellent piano but I don`t like the demos I hear. Maybe I will buy it some other time.I will first wait what people who already have ES have to say about it. Emberton Steinway still inspired me to play it a lot. It has everything I expect to hear the same way as I play acoustic piano. I am sorry that I have no money at the moment to bring Yamaha Avant grand or Kawai Novus in my house to enjoy maximum as possible together with ES.

Last edited by slobajudge; 08/08/18 06:38 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2756900
08/08/18 07:26 PM
08/08/18 07:26 PM
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I have a lite version. I want to use the full version very much.
Lite is good enough, but there are some drawbacks. I think Full version is another class that complements this.
I hope they will discount ES on Black Friday.

Originally Posted by slobajudge
I will first wait what people who already have ES have to say about it.


Unfortunately, many people seem to be thinking the same thing as you. Two days have passed since its release, but no reviews have been posted anywhere!
I guess most people who purchased ES seem to be worried about their wallets:)

Last edited by angmyu; 08/08/18 07:31 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2756937
08/08/18 11:40 PM
08/08/18 11:40 PM
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Still deeply in love with the Embertone, not only for its sound and playability, but also for its Kontakt Player NKS compatibility.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2756990
08/09/18 04:21 AM
08/09/18 04:21 AM
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slobajudge
angmyu
Fleer

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts!

The only concern to me is that Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D, according to demos I heard, sounds distant. It is great for dreamy, cinematic, romantic etc playing. But how do you find it for other genres, styles? Can you get a "Ringing" tone of it when it is necessary?


Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult: UVI - Falcon; Vilabs - Ravenscroft; Pianoteq - 6 Std (Bluthner, Steinway D, K2); Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Max_Forte] #2756992
08/09/18 04:26 AM
08/09/18 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
To all Happy users of this beautiful piano: What do you think about it after the end of the honeymoon?

As you may know, Production Voices just released their Concert Grand instrument. Can't decide which of them should I pick....

Can you get "DRY" sound of it? Don't get me wrong, it sounds beautiful, but sometimes we need the totally dry piano.


I would wait for the reception of the pedaling update. For me , this piano has unfortunately been un-playable in the current state
There is something really off with the repedaling / catch pedaling, notes keep disappearing. I have to look further into it, but I will wait until the update which will come one of these days I heard from the guys at Embertone.
I will write a more thorough review afterwards.


Kawai VPC1 - Garritan CFX
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Max_Forte] #2756994
08/09/18 04:47 AM
08/09/18 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Max_Forte
slobajudge
angmyu
Fleer

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts!

The only concern to me is that Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D, according to demos I heard, sounds distant. It is great for dreamy, cinematic, romantic etc playing. But how do you find it for other genres, styles? Can you get a "Ringing" tone of it when it is necessary?

Combination of main mics plus close mics is fantastic and piano can`t be more close then that. Earlier in this topic I put a video link of acoustic Steinway and the sound is the same as this combination, more then I mention in that post. If you like sound from video you will love Embertone. Decrease reverb to make it more present. Overall, all mics except room mics are relatively close. I like binaural mics also from player perspective and this is the same feeling as acoustic distance. I cant help you with other styles because I play only classical music.

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