 |
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
|
|
58 members (Barry_Braksick, Adam Reynolds, AlkansBookcase, APianistHasNoName, Carey, brdwyguy, beeboss, Cheeeeee, 8 invisible),
1,587
guests, and
245
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166 |
I've been looking to upgrade my YDP-140 for a while, and in looking at used digital pianos, the two first things that come to mind are "what's the action?" and "when was it released?". Naturally, those are often the first things that members on this forum point to when people are asking for advice on used keyboards.
Of course there are many other features to look at, but it seems reasonable that action and release date can be used as a gauge to decide if a keyboard is worth investigating more, in which case you may look at other features like number of voices, outputs, speaker power, etc.
I thought it would be interesting to create a list of products, their actions, and released dates, from the past 10 years, to be used as a reference when looking at used keyboards. I've created the list for Yamaha (ironically, I'm actually leaning towards a Kawai), and thought members of the forum may be interested in this. As well, if it does turn out to be useful, I could create a list for Kawai, Roland, and Casio.
The list is quite large, so I'm not entirely convinced this is a useful thing to do, but since I've already done the work, here it is. I'm curious people's thoughts on this.
Yamaha Models by Action and Year
Specialized Grand Action
Consoles
2016 N3X
2009 N1, N2, N3
Specialized Upright Action
Consoles
2017 NU1X
2012 NU1
Grand Touch
Consoles
2018 CLP-695GP
2017 CLP-675, CLP-685
Natural Wood X (NWX)
Consoles
2017 CLP-645, CSP-170
2015 CVP-705, CVP-709, CVP-709GP
2014 CLP-545, CLP-575, CLP-585
Slabs
2018 P-515
Graded Hammer 3X (GH3X)
Consoles
2017 CLP-625, CLP-635, CLP-665GP, CSP-150
2015 CVP-701
2014 CLP-535, CLP-565GP
Natural Wood (NW)
Consoles
2012 CVP-609, CVP-609GP
2011 CLP-470, CLP-480
2009 CVP-509
2008 CLP-370, CLP-380, CVP-407, CVP-409GP
Slabs
2014 CP4 Stage
2010 CP5
2009 CP1
Graded Hammer 3 (GH3)
Consoles
2018 YDP-184
2016 YDP-163
2014 CLP-525
2012 CVP-601, CVP-605
2011 CLP-430, CLP-440, CLP-565GP
2009 CVP-503, CVP-505
2008 CLP-330, CLP-340
Graded Hammer (GH)
Consoles
2015 YDP-S52
2014 YDP-162
2010 YDP-161, YDP-181
2008 CLP-320, CVP-501, YDP-160
Slabs
2014 P-255, CP40 Stage
2010 CP50
2009 P-155
2006 CP300
Graded Hammer Standard (GHS)
Consoles
2018 YDP-103, YDP-S34
2016 YDP-143
2014 YDP-142
2010 YDP-141
2009 YDP-S31
2008 YDP-140
Slabs
2018 P-125
2016 DGX-660
2015 P-45, P-115
2013 DGX-650
2012 P-35, P-105
2010 P-95
Be the person your dog thinks you are. 1926 Heintzman Upright, Kawai ES7 ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/3medals.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439 |
Nice work. Can you continue this effort to include the Kawai pianos?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,792
9000 Post Club Member
|
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,792 |
One comment -- NW should be broken down into NW-GH and NW-Stage, as follows:
2014 CP4 Stage (NW-GH)
2010 CP5 (NW-Stage)
2009 CP1 (NW-Stage)
Along the same lines, you may (or may not) want to include the Balance Hammer Effect boards such as the Montage and S70XS?
Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV10
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,488
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,488 |
Great work! This would be cool to have in a google spreadsheet or something.
Grand Touch
Consoles
2018 CLP-695GP
2017 CLP-675, CLP-685
Might I suggest noting that the CLP-685 and the CLP-695 have key counterweights, while the CLP-675 does not.
Now learning: Debussy Clar de Lune, Mozart Sonata in C K. 545, Joplin The Chrysanthemum
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Roland GO:PIANO, Piano de Voyage
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,792
9000 Post Club Member
|
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,792 |
Great work! This would be cool to have in a google spreadsheet or something.
Grand Touch
Consoles
2018 CLP-695GP
2017 CLP-675, CLP-685
Might I suggest noting that the CLP-685 and the CLP-695 have key counterweights, while the CLP-675 does not. Also, linear grading on 675/685 and 575/585 I believe? Yamaha actually has a lot of variations.
Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV10
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Full Member
|
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166 |
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I think with respect to adding more details, the challenge will be to have enough detail to accurately reflect substantial differences among actions, yet not having so much that it becomes overwhelming. My goal with the list is to have a relatively small number of groups, where you can say: - "All keyboards in group 1 have very similar actions"
- "All keyboards in group 1 have actions significantly better than the keyboards in group 2"
By extension, I'm hoping the list can help people choosing between different keyboards. I envision something like: - "If you're looking at two keyboards in group 1, their actions are very similar, so choose by price/features/sound instead"
- "If you're looking at one keyboard in group 1, and another in group 2, the one in group 1 has substantially better action than the one in group 2, so only get the one in group 2 if it's substantially cheaper".
Now I may be over simplifying the usefulness of this list, but again, it's based on the observation that many times the action is one of the first features people look at. Taking all of the above into account, some questions arise regarding suggestions by Gombessa and squidbot: - Is the presence of counter-weights (CLP-685 and CLP-695) enough to warrant a separate group? I don't have enough experience to answer that, so I'm interested in people's thoughts.
- Is the presence of linear grading (675/685 and 575/585) enough to warrant a separate group? Again I don't have a lot of experience, but I'd lean towards saying no. However again I'm interested in people's thoughts.
MacMacMacLooks like there's interest in this, so yes, I think I'll continue with Kawai. GombessaIt looks like the difference between NW and NW-Stage is that NW-Stage are all weighted the same, rather than graded. Is that correct? Interesting there's an NW-GH. All other references to "NW" say it's based on GH3. But yes, I see documentation saying they're different. I'll add Balance Hammer Effect boards as well, since I think they fit with the goal of documenting weighted boards, as opposed to synth actions. Regarding linear grading of the 675/685 and 575/585 -- see my comments above. squibotSee my comments above re: counterweights. Once again, thank you everyone!
Be the person your dog thinks you are. 1926 Heintzman Upright, Kawai ES7
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,488
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,488 |
Fantastic! Thanks for the spreadsheet MMM.
Glen, in my opinion (and I’ve seen many other similar comments) the counterweights make a significant difference. The 675 has a very heavy action, actually unplayable for some, described as feeling binary. I got the 685 primarily for this reason. The counterweights seem to take enough edge off that it feels much more dynamic and to my experience very close to an acoustic grand.
I can’t speak to the linear grading as I haven’t played those other instruments.
Thanks again for your hard work pulling all this information together!
Last edited by squidbot; 07/14/18 05:43 PM.
Now learning: Debussy Clar de Lune, Mozart Sonata in C K. 545, Joplin The Chrysanthemum
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Roland GO:PIANO, Piano de Voyage
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 197
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 197 |
Glen R. and MacMacMac
Thanks for a very useful information!
Roland FP-30
Komplete 12 Ult; Ivory 2 - ACD, Grand Pianos; Vilabs - ALL; Pianoteq - 7 PRO; Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AcousticSamples - All; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 82
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 82 |
Glen R. and MacMacMac
Thanks for a very useful information! I second this. Excellent contribution to the forum. I may be able to help with the Kawai list also. Also once completed maybe you could ask a moderator to pin this thread so it stays at the top of the forum.
Last edited by -Jay-; 07/14/18 10:59 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Full Member
|
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166 |
Looks like this is going to be useful information!
Great job on the spreadsheet, MacMacMac.
squidbot -- that's a good description of the importance of the counter weights. I'll split that out into a separate category.
--Jay- -- I've already started Kawai, but anything you would like to contribute would be awesome!
Be the person your dog thinks you are. 1926 Heintzman Upright, Kawai ES7
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Full Member
|
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166 |
Here's the updated Yamaha list based on the feedback above, except for linear grading, since I haven't heard comments on that. I've decided to format it with the forum's "code" markup so columns can align, allowing a more compact representation. MacMacMac, here are the changes from my initial version: - Breaking out NW-GH and HW-Stage
- Breaking out a separate Grand Touch with Counterweights
- Adding weighted synthesizers:
- Balanced Hammer Effect
- 2016 Montage8
- 2010 MOTIF XF8
- 2008 MOTIF XS8
- GHS
- 2017 MX88
- 2013 MOXF8
- 2011 MOX8
- 2009 MM8
Specialized Grand Action
Consoles
2016 N3X
2009 N1, N2, N3
Specialized Upright Action
Consoles
2017 NU1X
2012 NU1
Grand Touch - With counterweights
Consoles
2018 CLP-695GP
2017 CLP-685
Grand Touch
Consoles
2017 CLP-675
Natural Wood X (NWX)
Consoles Slabs
2017 CLP-645, CSP-170 2018 P-515
2015 CVP-705, CVP-709, CVP-709GP
2014 CLP-545, CLP-575, CLP-585
Graded Hammer 3X (GH3X)
Consoles
2017 CLP-625, CLP-635 , CLP-665GP, CSP-150
2015 CVP-701
2014 CLP-535, CLP-565GP
Natural Wood - GH3 (NW)
Consoles
2012 CVP-609, CVP-609GP
2011 CLP-470, CLP-480
2009 CVP-509
2008 CLP-370, CLP-380 , CVP-407, CVP-409GP
Natural Wood - Graded Hammer (NW-GH)
Slabs
2014 CP4 Stage
Natural Wood - Stage (NW-Stage)
Slabs
2010 CP5
2009 CP1
Graded Hammer 3 (GH3)
Consoles
2018 YDP-184
2016 YDP-163
2014 CLP-525
2012 CVP-601, CVP-605
2011 CLP-430, CLP-440, CLP-565GP
2009 CVP-503, CVP-505
2008 CLP-330, CLP-340
Graded Hammer (GH)
Consoles Slabs
2015 YDP-S52 2014 P-255, CP40 Stage
2014 YDP-162 2010 CP50
2010 YDP-161, YDP-181 2009 P-155
2008 CLP-320, CVP-501, YDP-160 2006 CP300
Graded Hammer Standard (GHS)
Consoles Slabs
2018 YDP-103, YDP-S34 2018 P-125
2016 YDP-143 2017 MX88
2014 YDP-142 2016 DGX-660
2010 YDP-141 2015 P-45 , P-115
2009 YDP-S31 2013 DGX-650, MOXF8
2008 YDP-140 2012 P-35 , P-105
2011 MOX8
2010 P-95
2009 MM8
Balanced Hammer Effect
Slabs
2016 Montage8
2010 MOTIF XF8
2008 MOTIF XS8
Be the person your dog thinks you are. 1926 Heintzman Upright, Kawai ES7
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 82
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 82 |
b]-Jay-[/b] -- I've already started Kawai, but anything you would like to contribute would be awesome!
PM sent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,792
9000 Post Club Member
|
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 9,792 |
Gombessa
It looks like the difference between NW and NW-Stage is that NW-Stage are all weighted the same, rather than graded. Is that correct?
Interesting there's an NW-GH. All other references to "NW" say it's based on GH3. But yes, I see documentation saying they're different.
I'll add Balance Hammer Effect boards as well, since I think they fit with the goal of documenting weighted boards, as opposed to synth actions.
Regarding linear grading of the 675/685 and 575/585 -- see my comments above.
That's my understanding of the difference. And it's a judgment call how detailed you'd like the breakdown to be. Sometimes makers will keep the same action name even if they make fairly significant differentiating changes (like the Yamaha example), other times they might create an entirely new designation for similar or smaller changes (NW v. NWX and GH3 v. GH3X, for example). Other manufacturers aren't necessarily any more consistent. So, there's probably not a perfect way to handle it. And we haven't even gotten into "undocumented" or running changes in actions, either 
Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV10
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439 |
I found some information that someone posted (perhaps here on PW?) several years ago. It named the actions for around 60 Roland, Kawai, Casio, Korg, and Yamaha pianos. So I updated the spreadsheet to include this information: ACTIONS SPREADSHEET
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439 |
-Jay- ... I saw your PM, and I incorporated your items into the spreadsheet.
Glen R. ... Jay provided lots of info on Kawai, but it's not 100% complete so take a look. If you have more on Kawai (or others) let me know.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14,439 |
I added some Roland pianos to the list. ACTIONS SPREADSHEET
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 121
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 121 |
Hi Mac,
MP11SE and MP7SE came out in 2017
ES8 ... I remember I posted the brochure in august of 2015
just FYI -
Jack
Kawai MP11SE | K&M 18950 | Kawai CA701 | Pianoteq Pro (Bleuthner, Steingraeber, Petrof, Bechstein, Steinway B & D, Electric Pianos, K) | Sennheiser HD600
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166
Full Member
|
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 166 |
Ok, I've created the Kawai list from Jay's hard work! I haven't looked through MacMacMac's updated spreadsheet yet. Here are the current lists. Yamaha (Unchanged)
Specialized Grand Action
Consoles
2016 N3X
2009 N1, N2, N3
Specialized Upright Action
Consoles
2017 NU1X
2012 NU1
Grand Touch - With counterweights
Consoles
2018 CLP-695GP
2017 CLP-685
Grand Touch
Consoles
2017 CLP-675
Natural Wood X (NWX)
Consoles Slabs
2017 CLP-645, CSP-170 2018 P-515
2015 CVP-705, CVP-709, CVP-709GP
2014 CLP-545, CLP-575, CLP-585
Graded Hammer 3X (GH3X)
Consoles
2017 CLP-625, CLP-635 , CLP-665GP, CSP-150
2015 CVP-701
2014 CLP-535, CLP-565GP
Natural Wood - GH3 (NW)
Consoles
2012 CVP-609, CVP-609GP
2011 CLP-470, CLP-480
2009 CVP-509
2008 CLP-370, CLP-380 , CVP-407, CVP-409GP
Natural Wood - Graded Hammer (NW-GH)
Slabs
2014 CP4 Stage
Natural Wood - Stage (NW-Stage)
Slabs
2010 CP5
2009 CP1
Graded Hammer 3 (GH3)
Consoles
2018 YDP-184
2016 YDP-163
2014 CLP-525
2012 CVP-601, CVP-605
2011 CLP-430, CLP-440, CLP-565GP
2009 CVP-503, CVP-505
2008 CLP-330, CLP-340
Graded Hammer (GH)
Consoles Slabs
2015 YDP-S52 2014 P-255, CP40 Stage
2014 YDP-162 2010 CP50
2010 YDP-161, YDP-181 2009 P-155
2008 CLP-320, CVP-501, YDP-160 2006 CP300
Graded Hammer Standard (GHS)
Consoles Slabs
2018 YDP-103, YDP-S34 2018 P-125
2016 YDP-143 2017 MX88
2014 YDP-142 2016 DGX-660
2010 YDP-141 2015 P-45 , P-115
2009 YDP-S31 2013 DGX-650, MOXF8
2008 YDP-140 2012 P-35 , P-105
2011 MOX8
2010 P-95
2009 MM8
Balanced Hammer Effect
Slabs
2016 Montage8
2010 MOTIF XF8
2008 MOTIF XS8
Grand Feel II
Consoles
2018 CA78, CA98
2016 CS8 , CS11
2015 CA67, CA97
Grand Feel
Consoles Slabs
2013 CA65, CA95, CS7, CS10 2017 MP11SE
2014 MP11
???? CP1 , CP2
Grand Feel Compact
2018 CA48
RM3 Grand II
Consoles Slabs
2015 CA-17 2014 VPC-1
2013 CA-15
RM3 Grand
Consoles Slabs
2010 CP139, CP179, CP209 2011 MP10
AWA PRO II
Consoles
2012 CE220
Responsive Hammer III (RHIII)
Consoles Slabs
2017 CN27, CN37 2017 MP7SE
2015 CN25, CN35 2015 ES8
Responsive Hammer II (RHII)
Console Slabs
2013 CS4 2014 MP7
2012 CN24, CN34 2013 ES7
???? CP3
Responsive Hammer
Consoles Slabs
2011 CL36 2011 MP6
2010? CP119
Responsive Hammer Compact II
Consoles
2018 CN17, KDP110
Responsive Hammer Compact (RHC)
Slabs
2017 ES110
Advanced Hammer Action IV-F (AHA IV-F)
Consoles Slabs
2015 KCP90 2014 ES100
2014 KDP90 2012 CL26
2012 KDP80 2009? EP3
2011? KCP80 2008 ES6
2009 CL25 , CL35
Be the person your dog thinks you are. 1926 Heintzman Upright, Kawai ES7
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 19,097
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 19,097 |
Nice job. Here are a handful of revisions/additions: - The CP1/CP2/CP3 were released in 2014. - The CA58 also features the Grand Feel Compact action. - The CA93/CA63 (2009) and CA13 (2010) featured the RM3 Grand action - The CA91/CA71/CA51 (2007) and CA18 (2008), and MP8II (2007) featured the AWA (Grand) Pro II action. - The EP3 was released in 2008. - The KCP80 was released in 2011. - The MP5 (2007) also featured the AHA IV-F action. One very minor point, which I doubt anyone outside of Kawai is aware of: Kawai digital piano model numbers should be written without a hyphen (e.g. CA17, not CA-17). However, Kawai acoustic piano model numbers should be written *with* a hyphen (e.g. K-300 not K300, GX-5 not GX5). I hope this helps. Kind regards, James x
|
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,392
Posts3,349,310
Members111,634
| |
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
