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Best adult self-teaching method #2750937
07/12/18 09:53 AM
07/12/18 09:53 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11
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Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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Hi everyone! I am new to the piano world, I recently bought a new piano, and I am very motivated to learn to play. I am a college student, so I have little time (and money) to have a teacher, so I've decided to use a book method to teach myself.

Btw, I understand very well the general thought that it is absolutely necessary to have a teacher, but I simply can't at the moment.

From what I've found, there are two quite popular methods, Alfred's and Faber, but there are sooo many variants! So my question is, what do you recommend among the following to a totally novice adult?

1. Alfred's Basic Course
2. Alfred's All-in one
3. Alfred's Basic Adult
4. Alfred Basic All-in one Adult
5. Faber Basic Piano Adventures
6. Faber Adult Piano Adventures

Thanks so much in advance, any help it's appreciated!

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Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2750941
07/12/18 10:16 AM
07/12/18 10:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 60
Portugal
M
MarioPf Offline
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Joined: Jul 2018
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Portugal
I would search videos on youtube on these books. There are a list with 148 videos about 'Alfred's Basic Adult Piano Course', for example, but there are also material for the other books. We can draw a lot of valuable information from the videos. Right away, we can get an idea of what method is best for us by seeing some videos.

There are also very good videos on piano technique covering many aspects. Since you can not take lessons at the moment, if you have a friend who knows how to play the piano, ask him to correct your posture and the position of the hands.

Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2750945
07/12/18 10:46 AM
07/12/18 10:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,582
Reseda, California
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JohnSprung Offline
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Don't limit yourself to videos about the specific courses. On Youtube, be sure to watch all the John Mortensen videos from his Cedarville University courses. Robert Estrin at LivingPianos.com also has dozens of free videos, but you'll have to check out the titles to pick the fundamentals from the advanced. Graham Fitch is another good guy, most of his videos aren't at the beginning level, though.



-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: JohnSprung] #2750947
07/12/18 10:55 AM
07/12/18 10:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 60
Portugal
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MarioPf Offline
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Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Don't limit yourself to videos about the specific courses. On Youtube, be sure to watch all the John Mortensen videos from his Cedarville University courses. Robert Estrin at LivingPianos.com also has dozens of free videos, but you'll have to check out the titles to pick the fundamentals from the advanced. Graham Fitch is another good guy, most of his videos aren't at the beginning level, though.



No doubt. The first videos to look for are those that relate to aspects like 'how to sit at the piano', 'how to put hands on the keybed' and so on.

Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2750969
07/12/18 11:56 AM
07/12/18 11:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 725
Union SC
monkeeys Online content
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monkeeys  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2017
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I’m doing Alfred’s All In One adult but other web based resources as well.


Alesis Coda Pro
PianoVideoLessons.com Currently Unit 4
Alfred Adult Piano 1-ebook version
Grateful Dead fan since 1987
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2750970
07/12/18 12:08 PM
07/12/18 12:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 46
Ontario, Canada
L
lizzie3 Offline
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Ontario, Canada
I learned off of the Faber Accelerated Piano Adventure for the older beginner series. My teacher had me buy the theory, lesson and performance book level 1 and then level 2. After that I was into RCM grade 1. I haven't tried any other lesson books but I enjoyed learning through these and the pace worked for me.

Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2750980
07/12/18 12:50 PM
07/12/18 12:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,552
Warsaw, Poland
Qazsedcft Offline
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Warsaw, Poland
First of all, there is no "best" method. It highly depends on what are your goals. What kind music would you like to play? Do you want to read music? Improvise by ear? Play in a band? I'm not saying the suggestions above are bad, but you should be aware that a large portion of members here are oriented towards classical music.

That being said, I think that in general (and that is a big generalization) the adult methods are aimed at getting results quickly but are more superficial, while the children's methods go slower but build a more solid foundation. In the long run I think that the latter approach is more effective and would recommend looking at learning all the basics without skipping steps.

When I started lessons my teacher used the following method and praised it highly:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/European-Piano-Method-1/dp/3795750024

I think it this (and the following volumes in that series) did help me build up a pretty solid foundation.


[Linked Image]
Working on:
Bach French Suite no. 2 mvt. 4
Moszkowski op. 91 no. 7
Debussy Doctor Gradus ad Parnassum
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2751037
07/12/18 03:38 PM
07/12/18 03:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 725
Union SC
monkeeys Online content
500 Post Club Member
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Posts: 725
Union SC
Regardless of what you decide, absorb as much theory and reading as possible. Best wishes for good progress.


Alesis Coda Pro
PianoVideoLessons.com Currently Unit 4
Alfred Adult Piano 1-ebook version
Grateful Dead fan since 1987
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2751040
07/12/18 03:45 PM
07/12/18 03:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,046
Europe
J
JoeT Offline
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Europe
Originally Posted by Rhaegar21
so I have little time (and money) to have a teacher, so I've decided to use a book method to teach myself.

This is a common misconception. Using books is not "teaching yourself". To teach yourself you have to become a teacher. You have to figure out how to teach piano, so you can teach (yourself) piano.

Sounds complicated? It is, because you have do the work of two persons, which involves much more effort than just following instructions by a teacher, who did all this work already for you. It's not impossible to teach yourself, but if you have no time for lessons, you definitely have not enough time to learn teaching yourself piano and learn playing piano at the same time.


Kawai ES100 | Pianoteq 6 | Ivory II American Concert D | Steinberg UR22 | Sennheiser HD595
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2751067
07/12/18 05:30 PM
07/12/18 05:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 986
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by Rhaegar21
Hi everyone! I am new to the piano world, I recently bought a new piano, and I am very motivated to learn to play. I am a college student, so I have little time (and money) to have a teacher, so I've decided to use a book method to teach myself.

Btw, I understand very well the general thought that it is absolutely necessary to have a teacher, but I simply can't at the moment.

From what I've found, there are two quite popular methods, Alfred's and Faber, but there are sooo many variants! So my question is, what do you recommend among the following to a totally novice adult?

1. Alfred's Basic Course
2. Alfred's All-in one
3. Alfred's Basic Adult
4. Alfred Basic All-in one Adult
5. Faber Basic Piano Adventures
6. Faber Adult Piano Adventures

Thanks so much in advance, any help it's appreciated!


I use the Faber Adult Piano Adventures, Books 1 and 2 along with the corresponding books that go with them. I much prefer them over Alfred's, which I have too.

Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Qazsedcft] #2751089
07/12/18 06:54 PM
07/12/18 06:54 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11
R
Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MarioPf
There are also very good videos on piano technique covering many aspects. Since you can not take lessons at the moment, if you have a friend who knows how to play the piano, ask him to correct your posture and the position of the hands.


Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Don't limit yourself to videos about the specific courses. On Youtube, be sure to watch all the John Mortensen videos from his Cedarville University courses. Robert Estrin at LivingPianos.com also has dozens of free videos, but you'll have to check out the titles to pick the fundamentals from the advanced. Graham Fitch is another good guy, most of his videos aren't at the beginning level, though.

I will watch those videos, thanks!

Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2751096
07/12/18 07:46 PM
07/12/18 07:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 82
Southeast USA
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Progman Offline
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If I was going it alone I would make up some criteria for passing an exercise/song. A way to do that is to record the exercise/song and then critically listen to it. Probably maintaining a uniform rhythm, right dynamics, right notes, might be a good criteria to pass.

I think you do any of the Adult AIO's. But it could be a good thing to augment with other stuff - i'm using a book of exercies on Timing. I also am working through an alternate (to Alfred's) in parallel because someone said it is really good (Fundamental Keys). I think this is a good combination, These method's have a different strategy - a different flavor but the end result is the same. I'm not to bothered on which is better (neither). I understand Faber has it's own flavor. I suspect Alfred's is the fastest to get technical capability (based on comments here)- every week there are multiple new things to conquer (if you do 1 hour per day that could be about right. If you pass yourself on all exercises (probably 2-6) each week, that's (almost) to good to be true. Good Luck - start counting out loud now.


Progman
1997 Baldwin 'Classic' Console
Kawai ES100
Alfreds bk 1 + Teacher
Long Live ELP
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2751098
07/12/18 08:06 PM
07/12/18 08:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 197
Sydney, Australia
A
ArtlessArt Offline
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Sydney, Australia
I was in a similar situation as you, though I'm in my 30's. I started with Alfred's Basic Adult which helped me to read sheet music and understand (basic) chords, then branched off to Youtube videos and downloading sheets of the pieces I like to play. Make sure you have the correct posture and technique for long practice sessions.


Kawai CA78 | Kawai ES110 | Kawai Upright | Alexander Herrmann Upright (Sold) | Korg SP170 (Sold) | JBL LSR305 // Pianoteq Stage // CFX Lite
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2751101
07/12/18 08:23 PM
07/12/18 08:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,545
Orange County, California
bSharp(C)yclist Offline
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Orange County, California
My teacher would recommend Faber and then tell you to get a teacher smile


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Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: JoeT] #2751103
07/12/18 08:45 PM
07/12/18 08:45 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,539
Florida
cmb13 Offline
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Posts: 1,539
Florida
Originally Posted by JoeT

........... To teach yourself you have to become a teacher. You have to figure out how to teach piano, so you can teach (yourself) piano...........


That's actually really funny!

I don't have that much to add to what's been said already. Good luck with your journey. Analyze everything, learn to read sheet music beginning from basic one note sections, don't rush - it'll take years, learn some scales, keys, Circle of Fifths, arpeggios, etc etc.

Feel free to ask questions.


Boston 118 PE

Working On
Chopin Nocturne 20, Posthumous, in C-Sharp Minor
Pachelbel Canon in D
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Qazsedcft] #2751130
07/12/18 11:17 PM
07/12/18 11:17 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11
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Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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Rhaegar21  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
First of all, there is no "best" method. It highly depends on what are your goals. What kind music would you like to play? Do you want to read music? Improvise by ear? Play in a band? I'm not saying the suggestions above are bad, but you should be aware that a large portion of members here are oriented towards classical music.

That being said, I think that in general (and that is a big generalization) the adult methods are aimed at getting results quickly but are more superficial, while the children's methods go slower but build a more solid foundation. In the long run I think that the latter approach is more effective and would recommend looking at learning all the basics without skipping steps.

When I started lessons my teacher used the following method and praised it highly:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/European-Piano-Method-1/dp/3795750024

I think it this (and the following volumes in that series) did help me build up a pretty solid foundation.

Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge!, I will check that method

Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: JoeT] #2751169
07/13/18 06:03 AM
07/13/18 06:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 60
Portugal
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MarioPf Offline
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Originally Posted by JoeT

Using books is not "teaching yourself". To teach yourself you have to become a teacher. You have to figure out how to teach piano, so you can teach (yourself) piano.


This may sound logical but it is not necessarily true. If there can only exists teaching where there is an accomplished teacher, how could the first teacher have appeared? Of course that nobody born knowing to teach himself and to become our own teacher is not easy but is not impossible. In fact, I think that is almost inevitable that we become our own teachers when we have true passion for some performing art. This not means that we learn everything alone, which is impossible, but that we have the leading of the learning process.

We can use the issue raised by this thread as an example. Rhaegar21 wants to learn to play piano but he can not have lessons with a teacher at this moment. He could just sit in front of the piano, put his hands on the keys and expect to produce beautiful music. But he knows the piano is a very changeling instrument, with many "secrets" that he must discover in the first place. A teacher would be fine, but if this is not possible, what is the second best option? One may think in books about piano method. But wait, there is also that PWF where I can ask about this things. So, he opens a thread in PWF asking for opinions about the best self-teaching method, giving a list of famous piano books.

Is response, someone says great thing about one method, other one advises to watch youtube videos about piano technique, another one talk about the importance of thinking initially about goals. But now is time to Rhaegar21 takes back the control of his learning process. For instance, he may choose some book to start and he sees some videos about piano technique. Noe he has a very good idea about what he should do when will be seated in front of the piano. But when he to tries play four consecutive notes e finds out that he can not achieve evenness of sound volume and rithm. What is wrong? He may change some things just by trial and error but eventually he will try to get some information about what to do to overcome this problems in books and videos and then he try to put this in practice.

If we maintain this active role on our learning process we are our own teachers. Even if we have a piano teacher, we will not (or should not) stop the self-teaching process. This is also a difference between the adult and the children learning process. If we try to give them big explanations, they'll just be bored. On the other hand, an adult will distrust learning by imitation. This is not very rational but it is a fact. Adults want to be convinced with reasons to do things, and this is useful but only if it is used for self-teaching purposes.

Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: MarioPf] #2751172
07/13/18 06:08 AM
07/13/18 06:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 986
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
500 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 986
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by MarioPf
Originally Posted by JoeT

Using books is not "teaching yourself". To teach yourself you have to become a teacher. You have to figure out how to teach piano, so you can teach (yourself) piano.


This may sound logical but it is not necessarily true. If there can only exists teaching where there is an accomplished teacher, how could the first teacher have appeared? Of course that nobody born knowing to teach himself and to become our own teacher is not easy but is not impossible. In fact, I think that is almost inevitable that we become our own teachers when we have true passion for some performing art. This not means that we learn everything alone, which is impossible, but that we have the leading of the learning process.

We can use the issue raised by this thread as an example. Rhaegar21 wants to learn to play piano but he can not have lessons with a teacher at this moment. He could just sit in front of the piano, put his hands on the keys and expect to produce beautiful music. But he knows the piano is a very changeling instrument, with many "secrets" that he must discover in the first place. A teacher would be fine, but if this is not possible, what is the second best option? One may think in books about piano method. But wait, there is also that PWF where I can ask about this things. So, he opens a thread in PWF asking for opinions about the best self-teaching method, giving a list of famous piano books.

Is response, someone says great thing about one method, other one advises to watch youtube videos about piano technique, another one talk about the importance of thinking initially about goals. But now is time to Rhaegar21 takes back the control of his learning process. For instance, he may choose some book to start and he sees some videos about piano technique. Noe he has a very good idea about what he should do when will be seated in front of the piano. But when he to tries play four consecutive notes e finds out that he can not achieve evenness of sound volume and rithm. What is wrong? He may change some things just by trial and error but eventually he will try to get some information about what to do to overcome this problems in books and videos and then he try to put this in practice.

If we maintain this active role on our learning process we are our own teachers. Even if we have a piano teacher, we will not (or should not) stop the self-teaching process. This is also a difference between the adult and the children learning process. If we try to give them big explanations, they'll just be bored. On the other hand, an adult will distrust learning by imitation. This is not very rational but it is a fact. Adults want to be convinced with reasons to do things, and this is useful but only if it is used for self-teaching purposes.


+1 Agreed! Self learning is possible in most subjects.

Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: JoeT] #2751232
07/13/18 12:52 PM
07/13/18 12:52 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,105
R
Ralphiano Offline
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Ralphiano  Offline
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R

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,105
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Rhaegar21
so I have little time (and money) to have a teacher, so I've decided to use a book method to teach myself.

This is a common misconception. Using books is not "teaching yourself". To teach yourself you have to become a teacher. You have to figure out how to teach piano, so you can teach (yourself) piano.

Sounds complicated? It is, because you have do the work of two persons, which involves much more effort than just following instructions by a teacher, who did all this work already for you. It's not impossible to teach yourself, but if you have no time for lessons, you definitely have not enough time to learn teaching yourself piano and learn playing piano at the same time.


I think this response is quite overstated, bordering on hyperbole.

All throughout mankind's history, humans have learned things not previously known, without the benefit of teachers. I have learned most of what I know without benefit of teachers. Human's have much more potential than this post acknowledges. Do not be afraid of trying to learn to play piano without a teacher. Piano should never be so restricted to just those who can afford, or who need, teachers. What a sad world that would be.


Ralph

Casio Privia PX-760
Pianoteq Stage
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2751245
07/13/18 02:51 PM
07/13/18 02:51 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,365
Toronto, Canada
G
Greener Offline

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Greener  Offline

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G

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,365
Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by Rhaegar21

Btw, I understand very well the general thought that it is absolutely necessary to have a teacher, but I simply can't at the moment.

...


Thank you for that. Guess you had a jest of the general thought.

Sure, it would be helpful at some point to get a Teacher (particularly in the early years), but absolutely necessary? No it isn't. This kind of dogma (you must do this or you can't do that) is what has turned more people off of piano than on to it. It is deeply rooted though and won't easily go away. It belongs mostly in the other forum.

There is lots you can do on your own being self-taught and we have many people doing it.

I'm not anti-Teacher, but this forum is where we can help people going it alone the most. Yet, we don't always. We should ... more.

Last edited by Greener; 07/13/18 02:56 PM.
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Greener] #2751247
07/13/18 02:57 PM
07/13/18 02:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 743
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
500 Post Club Member
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 743
Originally Posted by Greener
...but this forum is where we can help people doing it alone the most.

I followed you until you said this. Why is this forum for helping people doing it alone "the most?" Is it because adults spend less on themselves (on teachers, for example), then they spend on their kids? (BTW, I think all people doing it alone should be helped, and I'm glad people on this forum helped me, but I didn't get the rationale of "the most" here)


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2751256
07/13/18 03:17 PM
07/13/18 03:17 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,365
Toronto, Canada
G
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014
Greener  Offline

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G

Joined: May 2012
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Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Greener
...but this forum is where we can help people doing it alone the most.

I followed you until you said this. Why is this forum for helping people doing it alone "the most?" Is it because adults spend less on themselves (on teachers, for example), then they spend on their kids? (BTW, I think all people doing it alone should be helped, but I didn't get the rationale of "the most" here)


This is a teaching/learning forum. Ask a question if you wish ... it's free. We can help self learners the most, because where else can they ask?

All my theory, I got it here ... (Keystring, PS88, on and on) these are my Teachers ... free.

Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Greener] #2751259
07/13/18 03:21 PM
07/13/18 03:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 743
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
500 Post Club Member
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 743
Originally Posted by Greener
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Greener
...but this forum is where we can help people doing it alone the most.

I followed you until you said this. Why is this forum for helping people doing it alone "the most?" Is it because adults spend less on themselves (on teachers, for example), then they spend on their kids? (BTW, I think all people doing it alone should be helped, but I didn't get the rationale of "the most" here)


This is a teaching/learning forum. Ask a question if you wish ... it's free. We can help self learners the most, because where else can they ask?

All my theory, I got it here ... (Keystring, PS88, on and on) these are my Teachers ... free.

Ah. I read you now. I thought you were saying this forum was more for self-learning adults than for adults with teachers with your "the most" phrase - in other words, I was thinking you were implying adults are more likely to self-learn than children, for example. I see now you just mean that this forum is for all adult piano learners, with or without teachers. Gotcha. Agree.


across the stone, deathless piano performances
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2751469
07/14/18 12:15 PM
07/14/18 12:15 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11
R
Rhaegar21 Offline OP
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 11
I want to deeply thank all those who participated in this thread, I would never have imagined that so many people would want to help me (I tried the same thing on Reddit, Facebook and other forums, in all of those they didn't respond, or they told me that if I don't have a teacher I'd never learn how to play), .

I want to make a special mention of MarioPf, Ralphiano and Greener, your words were very encouraging to continue learning ♥.

Endless thanks to everyone and the forum!

Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2751481
07/14/18 12:53 PM
07/14/18 12:53 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,105
R
Ralphiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Ralphiano  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
R

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,105
You are welcome, Rhaegar21.

This forum is where at least 90% of my education in piano comes from. A lot of very accomplished pianists frequent the place and very generously share their experiences and knowledge with us beginners. I encourage you to stick around, read all the threads, and ask whatever questions might occur to you. And, contribute what you can along the way.

Good luck with your piano journey! smile


Ralph

Casio Privia PX-760
Pianoteq Stage
Pianist since April, 2015
Re: Best adult self-teaching method [Re: Rhaegar21] #2751838
07/16/18 06:45 AM
07/16/18 06:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 195
Phoenix
tbonesays Offline
Full Member
tbonesays  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 195
Phoenix
Originally Posted by Rhaegar21
Hi everyone! I am new to the piano world, I recently bought a new piano, and I am very motivated to learn to play. I am a college student, so I have little time (and money) to have a teacher, so I've decided to use a book method to teach myself.

Btw, I understand very well the general thought that it is absolutely necessary to have a teacher, but I simply can't at the moment.

From what I've found, there are two quite popular methods, Alfred's and Faber, but there are sooo many variants! So my question is, what do you recommend among the following to a totally novice adult?

1. Alfred's Basic Course
2. Alfred's All-in one
3. Alfred's Basic Adult
4. Alfred Basic All-in one Adult
5. Faber Basic Piano Adventures
6. Faber Adult Piano Adventures

Thanks so much in advance, any help it's appreciated!


I do not know how to answer this question because we only get to learn the piano once. It reminds me of useless teacher course evaluation forms in college where students are asked to rate their general chemistry professor without having heard another chemistry professor. For myself I would not recommend anything other than Faber Adult Piano Adventures, but I [have never seen an Alfred book.

Ironically you should ask a teacher. The piano teacher may have experience with both methods and can say which would be best for you. After that you should ask the teacher about how adult lessons could work.

Last edited by tbonesays; 07/16/18 06:47 AM.

"Motivation is simple, you eliminate anyone who isn't motivated." - Lou Holtz.

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